• Automation to Kill 5 mio Jobs By 2020
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[quote] Over five million jobs will be lost by 2020 as a result of developments in genetics, artificial intelligence, robotics and other technological change, according to [URL="https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/48709Z:US"]World Economic Forum[/URL] research. About 7 million jobs will be lost and 2 million gained as a result of technological change in 15 major developed and emerging economies, WEF founder Klaus Schwab and managing board member Richard Samans said in [URL="http://www3.weforum.org/docs/Media/WEF_Future_of_Jobs_embargoed.pdf"]"The Future of Jobs."[/URL] The findings are taken from a survey of 15 economies covering about 1.9 billion workers, or about 65 percent of the world’s total workforce. The blurred lines between physical, digital and biological spheres amount to a Fourth Industrial Revolution, according to the WEF, which will address the idea as [URL="http://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/01/the-fourth-industrial-revolution-what-it-means-and-how-to-respond"]the idea[/URL] at its annual meeting of policy makers, academics and economists in Davos, Switzerland. It’s already a hot topic thanks in part to books such as ‘The Second Machine Age’ and ‘The Rise of The Robots,’ while [URL="https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/3710Z:LN"]Bank of England[/URL] Chief Economist Andy Haldane has warned that the millions of jobs [URL="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-15/robots-can-t-replace-it-workers-doctors-dentists-haldane-says"]at risk[/URL] from automation are creating issues officials need to address.[/quote] Source: [url]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-18/rise-of-the-robots-will-eliminate-more-than-5-million-jobs[/url] Just by 2020, which is crazy. It's only a taste of what's to come, good thing we're preparing :v:!
It's only going to increase also isn't it?
Universal basic income sounds more and more appealing by the job :v:
[QUOTE=BandClassHAH;51681258]Universal basic income sounds more and more appealing by the job :v:[/QUOTE] [I]SOCIALIST!, BINGE SPENDING, ENTITLEMENTS![/I] there's so much wrong with our country that would only get worse with a universal basic, just look at how much people have to go through to get our already pretty limited aid, they're basically second class citizens, having to constantly bend to the newest whim of the usually socially conservative legislatures who wrack up more tests and proof requirements.
[QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;51681095]It's only going to increase also isn't it?[/QUOTE] Honestly, it'd probably be more than 5 million. That seems like a pretty conservative estimate.
[QUOTE=BandClassHAH;51681258]Universal basic income sounds more and more appealing by the job :v:[/QUOTE] Good thing America elected the one party willing to ensure everyone gets what they need to liv-oh damn. Hang on. Posted from reality B again. Sorry. Mass automation of this sort has been on the horizon for at least a decade now. We've had plenty of time to experiment with solutions to the problem, which will pretty much all require some form of welfare state, or a Luddite regression. But no, imposing tariff on other countries and employing protectionist bullshit is now the way forward for a lot of the western world. All I can say is good luck to everyone hovering around the poverty line, we're gonna need it.
[QUOTE=Sableye;51681268][I]SOCIALIST!, BINGE SPENDING, ENTITLEMENTS![/I] there's so much wrong with our country that would only get worse with a universal basic, just look at how much people have to go through to get our already pretty limited aid, they're basically second class citizens, having to constantly bend to the newest whim of the usually socially conservative legislatures who wrack up more tests and proof requirements.[/QUOTE] indeed, starving is preferable. (also you don't know what /universal/ basic income is apparently)
[QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;51681095]It's only going to increase also isn't it?[/QUOTE] And it wont stop since there's no boundary to technology and how it changes our social digitalization. It is constant evolving, and we as a 'progressive' society are constantly adapting to it, just like history has taught us over and over again.
[QUOTE=Sableye;51681268][I]SOCIALIST!, BINGE SPENDING, ENTITLEMENTS![/I] there's so much wrong with our country that would only get worse with a universal basic, just look at how much people have to go through to get our already pretty limited aid, they're basically second class citizens, having to constantly bend to the newest whim of the usually socially conservative legislatures who wrack up more tests and proof requirements.[/QUOTE] People from the Rust Belt and other states going through massive job losses might just start migrating to the metropolitan states as they finally fucking realize Trump and the GOP pulled the rug out from under them. They'll realize there is more opportunity closer to the coast and we'll probably see the inland states become over glorified resort towns or be bought up by the filthy rich. Maybe there will be such a massive population drop that merging states together into bigger states will become desirable for reasons of state tax revenue and such.
Universal income is just a con so people too lazy to get jobs can leach off everyone else. Time and time again people have made dire claims that the march of technology will kill jobs and time and time again they've been wrong. You people claiming increased automation will kill the working class are no better than those Luddite lunatics hundreds of years ago who claimed the same thing. Instead our quality of life go even better as the percentage of the working class has gotten smaller.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;51681319]Good thing America elected the one party willing to ensure everyone gets what they need to liv-oh damn. Hang on. Posted from reality B again. Sorry.[/QUOTE] To be entirely fair I don't think the Democrats have been too great on this issue either.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51681927]To be entirely fair I don't think the Democrats have been too great on this issue either.[/QUOTE] roosevelts new deal, trumans fair deal, johnson's great society, and obamas stimulus package and ACA beg to differ
[QUOTE=cis.joshb;51681985]roosevelts new deal, trumans fair deal, johnson's great society, and obamas stimulus package and ACA beg to differ[/QUOTE] I mean within the past 20-30 years. Wages weren't too much of a problem pre-Carter era.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51681927]To be entirely fair I don't think the Democrats have been too great on this issue either.[/QUOTE] They seem generally more accepting of the steady march of progress, rather than throwing a shitfit about it and restricting everything to ensure "jobs" continue to exist for increasingly lower pay year on year relative to labour. I can't see a conservative of either party pushing the required welfare systems to deal with the mass unemployment of factory automation. I can see progressive members at least researching and performing experiments with it. They've not been "good" with it in the last however many years because nobody has actually been paying attention to the rise to automation, anywhere. It's amazing how little people listened to experts actually explaining this constantly.
Everyone needs to stop acting like this is some far away thing that'll never actually happen, or it's all just science fiction. Literally is already in the process of happening and we're gonna have a ridiculously bad economic crisis if we're not prepared. (And we're not prepared at all it seems like) After all, nobody can buy your shit if they can't afford it, or sustain a family, or house themselves, if there is literally not a job in which they're able to work and they have no income.
[QUOTE=Sableye;51681268][I]SOCIALIST!, BINGE SPENDING, ENTITLEMENTS![/I] there's so much wrong with our country that would only get worse with a universal basic, just look at how much people have to go through to get our already pretty limited aid, they're basically second class citizens, having to constantly bend to the newest whim of the usually socially conservative legislatures who wrack up more tests and proof requirements.[/QUOTE] During the Nixon presidency America [i]almost[/i] got basic income, believe it or not. [QUOTE=download;51681923][b]Universal income is just a con so people too lazy to get jobs can leach off everyone else.[/b] Time and time again people have made dire claims that the march of technology will kill jobs and time and time again they've been wrong. You people claiming increased automation will kill the working class are no better than those Luddite lunatics hundreds of years ago who claimed the same thing. Instead our quality of life go even better as the percentage of the working class has gotten smaller.[/QUOTE]That has been proven to be wrong by multiple experiments.
[QUOTE=download;51681923]Universal income is just a con so people too lazy to get jobs can leach off everyone else. Time and time again people have made dire claims that the march of technology will kill jobs and time and time again they've been wrong. You people claiming increased automation will kill the working class are no better than those Luddite lunatics hundreds of years ago who claimed the same thing. Instead our quality of life go even better as the percentage of the working class has gotten smaller.[/QUOTE] So you're claiming, that the people who are researching this, as their job, are doing a con because they're too lazy to get a job? What the fuck are you talking about?
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51682033]So you're claiming, that the people who are researching this, as their job, are doing a con because they're too lazy to get a job? What the fuck are you talking about?[/QUOTE] No. There is more than one school of economic thought.
[QUOTE=download;51681923]Universal income is just a con so people too lazy to get jobs can leach off everyone else. Time and time again people have made dire claims that the march of technology will kill jobs and time and time again they've been wrong. You people claiming increased automation will kill the working class are no better than those Luddite lunatics hundreds of years ago who claimed the same thing. Instead our quality of life go even better as the percentage of the working class has gotten smaller.[/QUOTE] Sorry you lost me with this weird rant. How are the people warning others of the (very likely) potential that their industry can just be replaced by automation no better than the Luddites who actively went out of their way to prevent progress in agriculture? (To the point of destroying things in some cases!) We saw it with agriculture, one tool pulled by a small number of cattle could perform the work of many men for no cost. We saw the beginnings of it with manufacturing, automated sewing machines and conveyor systems replaced many seamstresses and simple logistical jobs meaning more textiles could be shat out faster and with less work. We're likely to see manufacturing be almost entirely automated soon, with robotics being able to perform most manufacturing tasks more consistently and with less complaints than your standard human. The difference is, this time the machines need fewer people to look after them, and need more training to maintain thanks to computerising them.
McGovern wanted to give us UBI. But it's a shame that someone with that name was fated to be beat by fucking nixon of all people. Also one thing on UBI and leeching, it will also come with a cut of other social programs and welfare as they would no longer be necessary. I think that the fact that many absolute free market enthusiasts such as Milton Friedman stuck up for UBI says something. Most people (at least the intellectual sort) that advocate for these policies don't do it just because they want to leech, they support them because they believe it will lead to a healthier economy/society. Try not to be such a dick mkay? [sp]btw i dont exactly support UBI so dont try to get me to defend it[/sp]
[QUOTE=BandClassHAH;51681258]Universal basic income sounds more and more appealing by the job :v:[/QUOTE] Going through school, my teacher told me that [quote="Grade 4 teacher Louis Sawatsky"]If you require handouts to survive, you've failed at life.[/quote] I mean it was brutal as fuck and extremely out of line for a teacher to be saying this to someone not even in Highschool but she does have a point. The government shouldn't be propping up people en mass as that's more an indication of larger economic forces at play.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;51682047]Sorry you lost me with this weird rant. How are the people warning others of the (very likely) potential that their industry can just be replaced by automation no better than the Luddites who actively went out of their way to prevent progress in agriculture? (To the point of destroying things in some cases!) We saw it with agriculture, one tool pulled by a small number of cattle could perform the work of many men for no cost. We saw the beginnings of it with manufacturing, automated sewing machines and conveyor systems replaced many seamstresses and simple logistical jobs meaning more textiles could be shat out faster and with less work. We're likely to see manufacturing be almost entirely automated soon, with robotics being able to perform most manufacturing tasks more consistently and with less complaints than your standard human. The difference is, this time the machines need fewer people to look after them, and need more training to maintain thanks to computerising them.[/QUOTE] I think you misunderstand what Luddite were. They didn't destroy farm equipment, they destroyed textile equipment and other industrialisation. The number of people required to manufacture things has continuously gone down while the middle class has grown. I don't see any reason for this trend not to continue. [url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-27/is-universal-basic-income-dangerous-idea-of-2016/8149398]This[/url] Discusses the very serious issues with UBI. Money doesn't grow on trees.
[QUOTE=download;51682075]I think you misunderstand what Luddite were. They didn't destroy farm equipment, they destroyed textile equipment and other industrialisation.[/QUOTE] Same shit different era. It's the destruction of technology is the name of "keeping our jobs" and fear of progressing. But it still happened. And it will continue to happen. The middle class is growing, sure. But it can't grow indefinitely. There's only so many white collar workers we need, only so many software engineers, architects, etc. And even then, some of these skilled jobs can be automated in the future. We can't just keep saying "oh the jobs will move!" because that isn't going to be possible as time runs on. Real solutions to the potential of permanent unemployment are needed. Not repeated band-aids like propping up of failing industries or "incentives" to avoid automation. Thinking about the future sometimes, rather than there here and now at all times is something we really should be doing.
[QUOTE=pentium;51682071]Going through school, my teacher told me that I mean it was brutal as fuck and extremely out of line for a teacher to be saying this to someone not even in Highschool but she does have a point. The government shouldn't be propping up people en mass as that's more an indication of larger economic forces at play.[/QUOTE] Ok. Tell me how without a job and thus access to income that someone will be able to pay for an education. How will they be able to pay for health coverage, or get a house? The only job in sheer abundance all across the nation is the cashier/clerk which has shit for pay. How does someone fail at life if they require handouts when everything is so unaffordable they can barely live?? No one is saying for the government to pay for everything, but to provide a basic income so people can at the least cover utilities, bills, [I]something[/I] so they don't have to decide between giving their kids something to eat or having a roof over their head. People with your mentality need to pull their heads out of their asses and look at the bigger picture. I'm assuming you come from a red state or a red area of a state because your teacher sounds like a god damn moron.
[QUOTE=download;51681923]Universal income is just a con so people too lazy to get jobs can leach off everyone else. Time and time again people have made dire claims that the march of technology will kill jobs and time and time again they've been wrong. You people claiming increased automation will kill the working class are no better than those Luddite lunatics hundreds of years ago who claimed the same thing. Instead our quality of life go even better as the percentage of the working class has gotten smaller.[/QUOTE] France has an existing system for guaranteed minimum income and we're not exactly worse off for it. A commission wrote [url=http://basicincome.org/news/2016/10/france-senate-report-milestone-basic-income/]a 400+ page report saying that basic income is recommended and should be tried.[/url] It's in French sadly.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;51682242]France has an existing system for guaranteed minimum income and we're not exactly worse off for it. A commission wrote [url=http://basicincome.org/news/2016/10/france-senate-report-milestone-basic-income/]a 400+ page report saying that basic income is recommended and should be tried.[/url] It's in French sadly.[/QUOTE] Is there a summary you can translate? To give us the gist?
[QUOTE=download;51682045]No. There is more than one school of economic thought.[/QUOTE] I'm gonna let you on a little secret we made all the money up, it's nothing more than a place holder on what we agree upon. It's a concept that because we made it up and it's not like gravity, it can and will be changed as we advance. Also any tech nerd who makes programs like this know they are putting people out of work. Which they also don't care as long as they get paid. So having people trying to make machines do all the work will completely fuck it after long enough. If they don't change the system then revolts will happen and the global market will crash. Then you got WW3 or the collapse of governments at enormous amounts.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51682248]Is there a summary you can translate? To give us the gist?[/QUOTE] The link itself is an article summarizing the study, probably should have clarified. For brevity/simplicity's sake: - Only paid for adult residents registered by fiscal authorities (so immigrants can't just whoop in and grab checks) - Must be higher than already existing RSA (basically welfare you get monthly as long as you're actively looking for a job) - Must be applicable unconditionally to all adult residents (unlike the RSA which is only for job seekers) - Doesn't have to be money outright but can be vouchers targeted for specific uses (like buying food) - Must be introduced alongside a heavy fiscal reform - Must replace existing welfare benefits So essentially, if we tie up some loose ends, rework the system and clear our shit, we could combine a bunch of similar/redundant welfare benefits into one basic income system for everybody. And as I said before, having a job in France means you're entitled to a certain minimum salary (1,100€/month before taxes, iirc) so it's not like work is discouraged.
[QUOTE=DELL;51682250]I'm gonna let you on a little secret we made all the money up, it's nothing more than a place holder on what we agree upon. It's a concept that because we made it up and it's not like gravity, it can and will be changed as we advance. Also any tech nerd who makes programs like this know they are putting people out of work. Which they also don't care as long as they get paid. So having people trying to make machines do all the work will completely fuck it after long enough. If they don't change the system then revolts will happen and the global market will crash. Then you got WW3 or the collapse of governments at enormous amounts.[/QUOTE] Yawn. Another "money isn't real" argument. How original.
Race is a social construct too but it sure as hell affects a ton of people.
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