[quote]Leftist Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras threw down an open challenge to international creditors on Wednesday by halting privatisation plans agreed under the country's bailout deal, prompting a third day of heavy losses on financial markets.
A swift series of announcements signalled the newly installed government would stand by its anti-austerity pledges, setting it on a collision course with European partners, led by Germany, which has said it will not renegotiate the aid package needed to help Greece pay its huge debts.
...
After announcing a halt to the privatisation of the port of Piraeus on Tuesday, for which China's Cosco Group and four others had been short-listed, the government indicated it would put the whole programme on hold.
It said it would stop the sale of stakes in the Public Power Corporation of Greece, Greece's biggest utility, and refiner Hellenic Petroleum, and put other planned asset sales of motorways, airports and the power grid on ice.
The government also plans to reinstate public sector employees judged to have been laid off unfairly, including a group of finance ministry cleaners whose case attracted publicity last year, and announced rises in pensions for retired people on low incomes.
Uncertainty over the new government's relations with the European Union went beyond economic policy. A day before the EU is expected to extend sanctions against Russia for six months, Greece's energy minister said the country was against sanctions. Athens had already dissented over a joint statement from the bloc on Ukraine on Tuesday.
Tsipras, who met Russia's ambassador to Athens on Monday and the Chinese envoy the next day, told ministers that the government would not seek "a mutually destructive clash" with creditors. But he warned that Greece would not back down from demanding a renegotiation of debt...[/quote]
[url=http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/01/28/greece-politics-idINKBN0L10VZ20150128]Reuters[/url]
[t]http://jewishcurrents.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/syriza-5702.jpg[/t]
[t]http://www.geneshapiro.com/user_img/items/096u10000610.jpg[/t]
Is the guy politically libertarian or authoritarian? Somewhere in between? I'm honestly not quite sure about the political positions of this party besides declarations of support for the "radical left", which being on the left myself, could mean anything from leninism, anarcho-syndicalism, libertarian socialism or state socialism.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;47033275]Is the guy politically libertarian or authoritarian? Somewhere in between? I'm honestly not quite sure about the political positions of this party besides declarations of support for the "radical left", which being on the left myself, could mean anything from leninism, anarcho-syndicalism, libertarian socialism or state socialism.[/QUOTE]
They seem to be primarily social democrats with marxist-leninist and democratic socialist factions. Syriza is a coalition of left-wing groups. They were rejected by the Greek ML communist party.
Well that's nice and all, but where are they going to get the money to rebuild their country?
I mean they can say "we're not going to pay that back" but if they need money in the future nobody is going to want to lend them any.
[QUOTE=Deng;47033700]Well that's nice and all, but where are they going to get the money to rebuild their country?
I mean they can say "we're not going to pay that back" but if they need money in the future nobody is going to want to lend them any.[/QUOTE]
They'll probably quit the euro and mint their own currency again.
[Editline]a[/editline]
Jeez, that'd literally lead to a downward spiral into a communist economy.
[QUOTE=Angus725;47033730]They'll probably quit the euro and mint their own currency again.
[Editline]a[/editline]
Jeez, that'd literally lead to a downward spiral into a communist economy.[/QUOTE]
Worst case scenario I see Greece going the way of Venezuela at this rate.
The latest party in power should do a very careful study of that wretched country, lest they have bread riots before the decades out.
Well since EU is only doing it worse for them, they would be better if they quit eurozone.
The talks with Chinese and Russians make me think that they might want to get loans from BRICS countries for being pro-BRICS and being a dick to EU.
We will see though.
I know this seems like a 'good' thing that the people are taking control their country in Greece, but these kinds of situations have a very bad habit of being derailed towards authoritarianism. I have little faith that the guys at the top give a shit about the average Greek. This seems like a power play.
With Greece shifting towards communism, Hungry turning it's back on the rest of Europe, Turkey turning into an authoritarian state, Italy condemning the Russian Sanctions and other major shifts in politics in the region, it looks as though we're beginning to see a new split in the East and West.
I know we like to joke how Russia is the big bad wolf in Europe right now, but they've got a lot more friends than we think, and the way things are going, it looks like some of the neglected nations are starting to look for more of a piece of the pie.
Time to build that bunker.
Socialism is pretty good at keeping a country on life support, to be fair.
[QUOTE=proch;47033902]Socialism is pretty good at keeping a country on life support, to be fair.[/QUOTE]
That is very true. The USSR was on life support for 30 years.
Privatization is NOT the right move, this is just a way to buy state companies for a low price, just look at every eastern european country after the fall of communism, Romania had a gigantic industry that got scrapped overnight by rich billionaires who outsourced everything to India.
[QUOTE=Deng;47033700]Well that's nice and all, but where are they going to get the money to rebuild their country?
I mean they can say "we're not going to pay that back" but if they need money in the future nobody is going to want to lend them any.[/QUOTE]
Ditch the Euro and the new currency is free to fluctuate as necessary - it would make Greece far more competitive so they would probably be able to borrow money at an okay rate
I know Greece were desperate to change their fortunes, but too much of why this government has said is contradictory. It will be nearly impossible to keep the Euro AND not comply with Eurozone agreements.
Germany were making a nice little profit off of interest paid on repayments from Greece. With all the money they lent they must be bricking it now.
[QUOTE=butt2089;47034042]Ditch the Euro and the new currency is free to fluctuate as necessary - it would make Greece far more competitive so they would probably be able to borrow money at an okay rate[/QUOTE]
Except for the fact that if Greece doesn't have a stable currency, and has defaulted on debt several times in the last few years, people would be very unlikely to lend Greece money. The future for Greece in the Euro seems pretty shit, but they're gonna have a rough road whatever they do.
[QUOTE=butt2089;47034042]Ditch the Euro and the new currency is free to fluctuate as necessary - it would make Greece far more competitive so they would probably be able to borrow money at an okay rate[/QUOTE]
The only problem is that I doubt they'd be able to implement and control the new currency very well.
Plus the entire economy would have to be restructured, meaning a lot of pain and suffering for a good few years. The Greeks simply won't be able to rebuild both the economy and provide the public services the coalition promises with what they have now.
It's not necessarily the wrong path for Greece to take. It won't lower the debt, but at least you don't sell out the country in the process. Their priority now should be to get the economy rolling, tackle the high unemployment and change the mentality on tax avoidance.
[QUOTE=Clavus;47034534]It's not necessarily the wrong path for Greece to take. It won't lower the debt, but at least you don't sell out the country in the process. Their priority now should be to get the economy rolling, tackle the high unemployment and change the mentality on tax avoidance.[/QUOTE]
Well the last one is the easiest, behead tax avoiders
What the fuck were the greeks expecting when their govt drawed figures and sent them to Brussels? Or when they had better retirement conditions than GERMANS or FRENCH? They are keen on anti austerity measures, but fuck they did spent a shitload of money pre 2008.
Same goes for the Spanish, who had a economy based around housing and construction, with no diversifying. Plus there's that stupid almost fascist argument that Catalonia should secede only because it produces a lot of goods from a well established industry.
I hate that rethoric. If you are mature enough to vote the radical left into power, then you are mature enough to give some fucks when your government doesnt put money where it should be.
heres the plan: we go back in time to patent all the ancient greek inventions and philosophies and art and drama, then sue everyone, and use Valves economist to construct a brand new virtual hat economy. No one can stop the Greece train now!
The old title was better
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;47034621]What the fuck were the greeks expecting when their govt drawed figures and sent them to Brussels? Or when they had better retirement conditions than GERMANS or FRENCH? They are keen on anti austerity measures, but fuck they did spent a shitload of money pre 2008.
Same goes for the Spanish, who had a economy based around housing and construction, with no diversifying. Plus there's that stupid almost fascist argument that Catalonia should secede only because it produces a lot of goods from a well established industry.
I hate that rethoric. If you are mature enough to vote the radical left into power, then you are mature enough to give some fucks when your government doesnt put money where it should be.[/QUOTE]
Catalonia deserves to be its own state if thats what the people want.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;47037266]Catalonia deserves to be its own state if thats what the people want.[/QUOTE]
You dont understand.
A valid reason is "because we deserve our nation due to our feelings of our nation"
And another half assed reason is "because they drain our resources"
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47033815]Well since EU is only doing it worse for them, they would be better if they quit eurozone.[/QUOTE]
Yeah remember when the EU refused to try and keep them afloat with shit tons of money.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;47037367]You dont understand.
A valid reason is "because we deserve our nation due to our feelings of our nation"
And another half assed reason is "because they drain our resources"[/QUOTE]
They do have a valid reason though. They're their own independent ethic group with their own language, history, and political differences from the rest of spain. The majority of Catalonia wants to be independent, and i'd fully support that want.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;47037421]They do have a valid reason though. They're their own independent ethic group with their own language, history, and political differences from the rest of spain. The majority of Catalonia wants to be independent, and i'd fully support that want.[/QUOTE]
Support it when they say that, of course. But when they come up with the stupid fascist argument I mentioned just tell them to gtfo
[editline]30th January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;47037370]Yeah remember when the EU refused to try and keep them afloat with shit tons of money.[/QUOTE]
Its not that easy. Thats just a over simplified view of what happened
[QUOTE=butt2089;47034042]Ditch the Euro and the new currency is free to fluctuate as necessary - it would make Greece far more competitive so they would probably be able to borrow money at an okay rate[/QUOTE]
steps
1) ditch euro
2) establish new currency
3) establish market exchange value
4) make $$$
except 1,2,3 are increadibly difficult to do in very stable times, impossible to do right in greece
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