Who is More Conservative: Ronald Reagan or Barack Obama? - Polidicks

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/who-is-more-conservative_b_638947.html[/url] [release]Who is more conservative - Ronald Reagan or Barack Obama? If you think that's an absurd question, you're not alone. We had this discussion on The Dylan Ratigan Show when I was filling in for him on MSNBC and both of my guests thought it was absurd. A conservative website led with the headline that it was absurd (though they did not present one single fact to back up their claim). Except as it turns out, based on the facts, it is a really hard question to answer. And it would be absurd to claim otherwise. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILg1-H6oNuM&feature=player_embedded#![/media] Ronald Reagan: -Gave Amnesty to Illegal Immigrants -Negotiated with Terrorists (Traded Arms for Hostages with Iran) -Raised Taxes on a Large Scale Four Times (After Initially Lowering Them) -Negotiated with the "Evil Empire" without Pre-conditions -Made a Decision to "Cut and Run" From Lebanon After Our Troops Were Attacked In fact, as you look at the Reagan list, it seems he is the exact opposite of what conservatives now claim they want. It looks like the caricature of what they think liberals do. There is no way that even Dennis Kucinich would be able to do all of those things; he certainly wouldn't negotiate with terrorists the way Reagan did. Of course, Reagan also took the country further right in many ways but our political spectrum has moved so far to the right that he looks left behind by comparison. So, let's go to Obama and see what that "socialist" is up to. Barack Obama: -Escalated the Afghanistan War (Added 30,000 More Troops) -Has Ordered Drone Strikes (Assassinations) on US Citizens Outside the Country -Gave Drug Companies Near Monopoly Power by Barring Imports, Extending Patents and Not Allowing the Government to Negotiate Better Prices -Funneled Billions into the Biggest Banks in the Country After They Crashed the Economy -Stacked Deficit Commission with Fiscal Conservatives -Lowered Taxes Significantly (Stimulus Bill) -Ordered Increased Offshore Drilling Before BP Spill The Obama team would argue that they did a lot of this because the Republicans made them do it. First, that's entirely untrue because the Republicans didn't make them pass any bills. The GOP also didn't give most of this legislation a single yes vote, so they could have been entirely ignored if Obama had the courage to do that. And many of the items on the list are executive actions, which the Republicans have no control over. Second, conservative is as conservative does. If you implement this many conservative positions, are you really sure you're not one? Now, people will cry and scream that we had the most historic health care reform and will soon have the most historic financial reform ever. Isn't that progressive enough?! No, that's nonsense. They are called historic only because the White House called them that. Financial reform is a joke that still leaves the big banks in charge and has failed to end "too big to fail." And yes, health care reform actually covers more people if they ever get it (maybe in 2014) and if they can afford it (depends on what private insurance decides to charge them), but it still leaves the health care system exactly as it was before. This is the progressive change people voted for? The bottom line is that, no matter what the reason, Obama seems to be in some important ways significantly to the right of Reagan on the political spectrum. If Reagan ordered the execution of US citizens abroad, he might have been impeached. If Obama tried to give undocumented immigrants blanket amnesty the way Reagan did, he might be impeached. I don't think Obama is a hard right-winger. It's just that the political establishment in this country has moved so far to the right (though not the public, according to polls on specific issues) that as a natural politician when he goes to appease them, he is solidly center-right on the spectrum. And the political line has moved so far that if Reagan tried to run as a Republican now he would be the laughing stock of the party. Rush Limbaugh would tear him to shreds and Bill Kristol would say he is Neville Chamberlain. He would be run out of town as a tax-raising, amnesty giving, terrorist negotiating, cut and run no-good lib who hates the troops. And anyone who claims otherwise is being absurd. As Reagan once said, "Facts are stubborn things."[/release]

-Has Ordered Drone Strikes (Assassinations) on US Citizens Outside the Country Can someone explain that?

Reagan loses any positive points he may have accumulated when you think about how he buttfucked your economy. The repercussions of "Reaganomics" are still being felt today the world over.

Reagan without a doubt.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;23222912]Reagan loses any positive points he may have accumulated when you think about how he buttfucked your economy. The repercussions of "Reaganomics" are still being felt today the world over.[/QUOTE] Yeah of course

[QUOTE=Zeke129;23222912]Reagan loses any positive points he may have accumulated when you think about how he buttfucked your economy. The repercussions of "Reaganomics" are still being felt today the world over.[/QUOTE] The economy has been functioning like always. Not long after it got a lot better and hit it's peak which could only lead it back down again. Like I said, nothing new.

Never liked Regan anyways, and the points here are all why.

Yeah what he did never really made sense but he was a good speaker. Similar to Obama in that way I guess.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;23222912]Reagan loses any positive points he may have accumulated when you think about how he buttfucked your economy. The repercussions of "Reaganomics" are still being felt today the world over.[/QUOTE] Shit I rated funny because I'm so used to it. :v:

Reagenomics are still ruining the black community to this day.

[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;23222900]-Has Ordered Drone Strikes (Assassinations) on US Citizens Outside the Country Can someone explain that?[/QUOTE] [img]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/more_accurate.png[/img]

[QUOTE]-Negotiated with Terrorists (Traded Arms for Hostages with Iran)[/QUOTE] I thought there was no evidence that the president was directly involved, and it was by other commanders that gave arms to Iran? And besides, how was it a trade off if the hostages were released the day he was inaugurated? [QUOTE]-Made a Decision to "Cut and Run" From Lebanon After Our Troops Were Attacked[/QUOTE] He saw that there was no point for our troops to be in Lebanon. Wish Obama would see there's no point in keeping our troops anywhere else as well.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;23226396]He saw that there was no point for our troops to be in Lebanon. Wish Obama would see there's no point in keeping our troops anywhere else as well.[/QUOTE] If he keeps troops there, people will hate him for prolonging a war. If he withdraws troops and 'cuts and runs', people will hate him for being a coward. He's fucked whatever he does, all thanks to Bush.

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;23226423]If he keeps troops there, people will hate him for prolonging a war. If he withdraws troops and 'cuts and runs', people will hate him for being a coward. He's fucked whatever he does, all thanks to Bush.[/QUOTE] I won't call him a coward, nor hate him. And besides, no one called that to Reagan, why Obama?

What about his support of right wing forces in south america ? And his support of fascist military dictator ships in south america as well.

Or the fact that Reagan stopped an important AIDS pamflet from being distributed because he was too squeamish about the content? Likely costing many lives? (It was intended for the gay community and included a frank portrayal of how it was passed about. Check out The Age Of Aids at Frontline. Link below.) [url]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/aids/[/url]

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;23226551]Or the fact that Reagan stopped an important AIDS pamflet from being distributed because he was too squeamish about the content? Likely costing many lives? (It was intended for the gay community and included a frank portrayal of how it was passed about. Check out The Age Of Aids at Frontline. Link below.) [url]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/aids/[/url][/QUOTE] Nobody reads pamphlets(?), especially government ones.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;23226452]I won't call him a coward, nor hate him. And besides, no one called that to Reagan, why Obama?[/QUOTE] Because conservatives are the only ones who play the coward card.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;23222912]Reagan loses any positive points he may have accumulated when you think about how he buttfucked your economy. The repercussions of "Reaganomics" are still being felt today the world over.[/QUOTE] No, that was Carter. During the Carter fuck up, unemployment was at an all time high, and inflation went up 10%. Reagan made our economy booming, and Clinton kept that up, but after Bush and Obama, the economy is going to suck because they made the wrong decisions.

I'm sorry but, does it really matter? They were both elected fairly by the public through voting. Despite them both winning they are still not good enough? What the hell is wrong with people. If they don't like them don't elect them. "Hey I know, lets elect this guy then spend the next 4 years talking about how crap he is at it and every little floor he has!" :downs:

[QUOTE=Ori Child;23227680]I'm sorry but, does it really matter? They were both elected fairly by the public through voting. Despite them both winning they are still not good enough? What the hell is wrong with people. If they don't like them don't elect them. "Hey I know, lets elect this guy then spend the next 4 years talking about how crap he is at it and every little floor he has!" :downs:[/QUOTE] You say that like everyone unanimously chose one candidate. Newsflash, they didn't. Seriously dude that's not how our presidential elections work, you should have learned this in like 3rd grade

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;23227377]No, that was Carter. During the Carter fuck up, unemployment was at an all time high, and inflation went up 10%.[/QUOTE] I'm no good at economics, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong their broski. Pretty sure the Federal Reserve did that on purpose, and that Reagan supported it too. [QUOTE=Uberman77883;23227377]Reagan made our economy booming, and Clinton kept that up, but after Bush and Obama, the economy is going to suck because they made the wrong decisions.[/QUOTE] Reagan's boom was because of the Federal Reserve thingy aforementioned actually worked. Also Bush pretty much followed Reaganomics to the letter, so these "wrong decisions" are actually part of the buttfucking effect Zeke was referring to.

Im gonna say Obama, but only cause Regan wanted to build lasers in space to blow shit up. A true hero :patriot:

[QUOTE=Zeke129;23222912]Reagan loses any positive points he may have accumulated when you think about how he buttfucked your economy. The repercussions of "Reaganomics" are still being felt today the world over.[/QUOTE] And Obama spending more than every other president before him combined was okay for our economy? "Herp derp, hey guys, I know how to get us out of debt! Let's spend more money we don't have!"

They can throw up a list of decisions each president made, but until you consider the context of each one, that's all they are, a random list. Reagan was certainly a more conservative president.

[QUOTE=Sir Muffin;23228007]And Obama spending more than every other president before him combined was okay for our economy? "Herp derp, hey guys, I know how to get us out of debt! Let's spend more money we don't have!"[/QUOTE] :doh: Hasn't this argument been featured on FP about a thousand times? Also: [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics[/URL]

[QUOTE=Sir Muffin;23228007]And Obama spending more than every other president before him combined was okay for our economy? "Herp derp, hey guys, I know how to get us out of debt! Let's spend more money we don't have!"[/QUOTE] What do you know about economics? Obama's spending is an important part of our economic recovery. Cutting spending would just prolong the recession or make it worse.

[QUOTE=Sir Muffin;23228007]And Obama spending more than every other president before him combined was okay for our economy? "Herp derp, hey guys, I know how to get us out of debt! Let's spend more money we don't have!"[/QUOTE] Republican Presidents/politicians have done this in the past. I would go as far as to say that the elephants just give him a hard time about it to make him look bad to the uneducated.

[QUOTE=Bassplaya7;23228043]What do you know about economics? Obama's spending is an important part of our economic recovery. Cutting spending would just prolong the recession or make it worse.[/QUOTE] I'd like to see you do the same thing with your personal finances. [quote]-Lowered Taxes Significantly (Stimulus Bill)[/quote] :psyduck: [quote]-Ordered Increased Offshore Drilling Before BP Spill[/quote] Negated by a drilling moratorium soon after.

[QUOTE=Glaber;23229324]I'd like to see you do the same thing with your personal finances.[/QUOTE] Again, I'm not so hot when it comes to economics, but I'm pretty sure there's a difference somewhere.