Babies are upset they can't have every cosmetic in a game. Blizzard will probably give out a few free lootboxes to keep them quiet.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52278842]Babies are upset they can't have every cosmetic in a game. Blizzard will probably give out a few free lootboxes to keep them quiet.[/QUOTE]
Microtransactions really shouldnt be in a pay to play game
Weird how people only care about sprays, voicelines & avatars when they include their cost for totalling prices huh.
[QUOTE=IliekBoxes;52278859]Microtransactions really shouldnt be in a pay to play game[/QUOTE]
They've been in the game the entire time, and aren't compulsory and are purely cosmetic.
Not to mention that all of the items can be achieved in game for free. They are literally the only thing to work towards.
Further, this system has been well used in this game for a full year.
Speak with your wallet. If you buy the game then you support that the 2 systems can coexist, even more so if you actually buy any of the crates.
Compared to other games like TF2 which had even more cosmetics and weapons that were different gameplay wise which dropped at a slow pace + required buying keys to get them from their crates, this is infinitely better.
Honestly, the people who have a problem with this sound like people who have an impulse buying problem and/or a completionist problem with not having absolutely everything.
when I bought the game, it had just come out and I wasn't under the impression blizzard would pull shit like massively jacked up prices, bullshit gimmick icon rereleases, no increase on payout for event dupes, and so on
i had no say in "speaking with my wallet" because there was none of this at the time to really criticize and i never gave any kind of written consent to it being this annoyingly structured (things lost forever, low duplicate payouts, inflated prices)
Note: I have not bought crates
EDIT: There's a difference between "not having everything" and "not having fucking anything", by the way, when there are hundreds of items to get at random with absolutely no guarantee you'll get one for a character you play and with such high prices during events that buying them is [b]completely fucking infeasible[/b]. People aren't being completionist crybabies, they're angry because they're fucked by RNG with no recompense because the coin payouts are laughably small to ever get near the huge prices of the event-only skins (WHICH BY THE WAY HAVE BEEN NEARLY EVERY NEW SKIN INTRODUCED). It also takes a pretty big dump on anybody that's out of town/has computer issues/etc but that's a minor thing I guess. But seriously, they added fucking gold versions of regular player icons in this update. More fodder.
EDIT2: Not to mention TF2 allowed a player economy, or just directly buying something you KNOW you want rather than spending fifty times that cost on boxes that may never give you what you're trying to get! Fuck! It's more complicated than just "hurrdurr crybabies" if you do any research at all!
EDIT3: The claim that you can attain everything by playing the game is a complete fucking misrepresentation because nearly all the new content they've introduced is time limited. You can grind throughout an entire event's several week timeline and there is [b]no[/b] promise whatsoever that you'll get anything that you want, nor enough money to directly purchase the skins/etc because of their tripled prices. You shouldn't have to dedicate yourself like a fucking zombie to this video game to have even a statistical shot at getting the content you'd like. Fuck that noise. That goes beyond 'well then a rare skin is extra special' and transcends into unnecessarily frustrating territory. Your opinion may vary on whether it's as bad as I make it out to be, but don't fucking act like any criticism of this system is somehow completely invalid whining. I've seen people toil throughout whole events and never get what they wanted because of all the useless padding.
I don't think this article accurately describes the problem
There's a stupid amount of filler in lootboxes. People only give a shit about the dance emotes and legendary skins but there are just so many stupid sprays and stupid player icons that the whole thing feels underwhelming. Another thing about it is that those player icons and sprays are considered "uncommon" so it takes up your minimum of 1 uncommon item per lootbox.
Blizzard really needs to release their algorithm for opening lootboxes. There is so much more to it than the chances to get items especially when it comes to getting event items. You might get a legendary tier item in the lootbox, but it won't be from the event.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;52278932]I don't think this article accurately describes the problem
There's a stupid amount of filler in lootboxes. People only give a shit about the dance emotes and legendary skins but there are just so many stupid sprays and stupid player icons that the whole thing feels underwhelming. Another thing about it is that those player icons and sprays are considered "uncommon" so it takes up your minimum of 1 uncommon item per lootbox.
Blizzard really needs to release their algorithm for opening lootboxes. There is so much more to it than the chances to get items especially when it comes to getting event items. You might get a legendary tier item in the lootbox, but it won't be from the event.[/QUOTE]
The dance emotes are especially frustrating because there's one for [b]every hero[/b], just like the sitting and laughing emotes, which are year-round; setting a precedent and then immediately violating it. Would it kill them to just be nice and give something to the players that isn't lost for at least an entire year? Not to mention that they'll probably [i]add more content[/i] when these events next roll around, meaning you'll have even less of a statistical chance of getting what you wanted short of splurging every last coin on the price-jacked cosmetics.
i just find it funny that this entire update is basically celebrating overwatch's success, which is thanks to the dedicated community. despite that, it boils down to "give us more money for more skins."
i have no issues with lootboxes, but if you don't play OW religiously, the chances of you being able to get the specific skin(s) you want is almost impossible. currency gain is slow. box drop chances are stacked against you, and only gets worse with the more non-event lootbox content they release.
Personally I don't really understand why the Anniversary items are exclusive. The dance emotes in particular stand out to me, personally, as something that should've been in the game's standard loot table.
There's a serious lack of non-exclusive content coming out. Which is annoying since you have to actively fight the loot box drops for 3 weeks in a bid to get whatever you want AND the items in question are always themed after the event (which creatively narrow). I think the last time stuff got added to the standard pool was the Eichenwalde update back in September.
I dunno man I'd rather have a free chance at the same item than having to buy like valve does it.
[QUOTE=spectator1;52279051]I dunno man I'd rather have a free chance at the same item than having to buy like valve does it.[/QUOTE]
but why not both?
i'd rather pay 4.99$ for lucio's new skin, especially on the final day of the event, then to possibly never get it
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52278842]Babies are upset they can't have every cosmetic in a game. Blizzard will probably give out a few free lootboxes to keep them quiet.[/QUOTE]
The least they can do is make them stay year-round.
Esp. with no trading.
[QUOTE=Karmah;52278903]They've been in the game the entire time, and aren't compulsory and are purely cosmetic.
Not to mention that all of the items can be achieved in game for free. They are literally the only thing to work towards.
[/QUOTE]
This is all fine and dandy for regular skins, but when they start doing exclusive content they create a high demand with only a limited timeframe to get skins which are purely RNG, and if you don't luck out on getting the stuff you want then your choices are to fork over more money near the end of the event with no guarantee that you'll get what you want anyway, that or just be bitter and annoyed every time you see someone using the skins you really wanted but never got because RNG.
I still think Blizzard needs to take a page out of their own Free-to-play titles with regard to Overwatch's currency and lootboxes, I especially refer to Heroes of the Storm in this regard (Which I have come to love far more than Overwatch after having played HotS during the promotional event). HotS and Overwatch are different in many regards, but one thing they do have in common is that they have a large cast of characters and tons of cosmetic goodies for said large cast of characters which you get from lootboxes, and then currency which allows you to buy those cosmetics (at a high price) should you be unlucky.
I'd say the 9 arcade wins per week for three lootboxes is a step in the right direction, though I'd personally say the "win" requirement is a bit stringent, but it is similar to the quest system employed in HotS which I think should be expanded upon. Why not have a quest system in Overwatch somehow? Like a daily mission? Not for more lootboxes, but for gold maybe? "Play 3 games as a support, get some gold." "Get 5 environmental kills, get some gold." Stuff like that, it would encourage people to step out of their comfort zone and try new heroes, and it would lessen the burden of getting shit from your lootboxes. Or... They could just increase the gold gained for getting duplicate event items :v: Which makes sense, and is straightforward, it's just not as fun.
The problem with event lootboxes from where I'm standing is that they're event-based to begin with.
Like, nearly every single major content addition thus far has been locked in an event. Unless you're particularly obsessive with the game you basically have to avoid playing outside of events because you take the risk of burning out and then missing out on an event that takes place over a fucking disgustingly short amount of time.
They're designing the events, the prices of the stuff they drop and all that, around the idea that the only way to earn any amount of cosmetics is to slave away at the game when Blizzard tells you to.
[editline]27th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Keychain;52278981]i just find it funny that this entire update is basically celebrating overwatch's success, which is thanks to the dedicated community. despite that, it boils down to "give us more money for more skins."
i have no issues with lootboxes, but if you don't play OW religiously, the chances of you being able to get the specific skin(s) you want is almost impossible. currency gain is slow. box drop chances are stacked against you, and only gets worse with the more non-event lootbox content they release.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention that lootboxes literally fucking cheat and have stacked chances for newer players, with massive diminishing returns once you hit level 20.
It's like a massive slap in the face to play this game regularly only for it to reward someone who accidentally picked up the game for the first time during an event and got half the legendary skins because of those stacked drop rates.
[QUOTE=IliekBoxes;52278859]Microtransactions really shouldnt be in a pay to play game[/QUOTE]
What I don't understand is why people have convinced themselves that this is an affront to god but every other pay to play game on the market that keeps their additional maps behind DLC, those are just part of the industry now and nobody so much as blinks.
All of the [I]actual content updates[/I] are free, and whether or not you want to argue that it was part of the games' advertising, they're offering additional content and support to a game that IMO, was solid with enough map and character variety to be considered complete on launch.
I have never bought a loot crate in my life and probably never will, I completely fail to comprehend why this is a serious issue.
[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52279327]What I don't understand is why people have convinced themselves that this is an affront to god but every other pay to play game on the market that keeps their additional maps behind DLC, those are just part of the industry now and nobody so much as blinks.
All of the [I]actual content updates[/I] are free, and whether or not you want to argue that it was part of the games' advertising, they're offering additional content and support to a game that IMO, was solid with enough map and character variety to be considered complete on launch.
I have never bought a loot crate in my life and probably never will, I completely fail to comprehend why this is a serious issue.[/QUOTE]
While I agree that the business model is in itself not an issue, I still think Blizzard deserves criticism for how over the top they've been with the event lootboxes.
They're only cosmetics, sure, but as far as that little sphere goes, it's terribly done. It treats the consumers like cattle, doesn't reward regulars but rather people with enough spare time to lock themselves down and play the game nonstop for as long as the event is up, and they're fucking full of filler shit that nobody wants, which is made worse by the fact event lootboxes don't even drop event-exclusive content. If that latter part were the case, you'd need about 27 lootboxes to get everything the event has to offer, duplicates notwithstanding, which in itself sounds like it requires commitment without being nearly as goofy as what Blizzard wants you to do if you don't want to pay for cosmetics.
[QUOTE=IliekBoxes;52278859]Microtransactions really shouldnt be in a pay to play game[/QUOTE]
Adding onto this:
Like taking issue with how the limited time skins could encourage reckless gambling, that much I can understand. Even then, I'm not sure that's a problem solely on Blizzard's end - that's also a complete lack of self control over in-game cosmetic items with no value. A bit harsh maybe, but they're skins.
But expecting a pay-once-and-get-free-updates-and-gamemodes-and-characters-and-maps-and-cinematics AAA game without any optional micro-transactions whatsoever is unrealistic in this day and age, frankly. No corporation no matter how wealthy is going to work on a game of this scale if the game isn't raking in new profit, and most of the people that want Overwatch have already bought Overwatch. Imagine being a developer working on OW and trying to tell somebody working in finances "so hey, we're going to work on all these massive content updates and comic/CG advertisements for Overwatch even though the game isn't making any more money and everyone else in the industry is making loads of money through DLC and micro-transactions, is that okay?"
It's hard to maintain the whole "it's got free updates !" attitude when those free updates have 99% been specifically designed to be put in these obnoxiously rare loot boxes.
Every individual character released thus far has had chunks of their starter content end up in event lootboxes. The whole game's content roadmap has been designed around putting out event lootboxes. They're literally the cornerstone of the game's development.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52279419]It's hard to maintain the whole "it's got free updates !" attitude when those free updates have 99% been specifically designed to be put in these obnoxiously rare loot boxes.
Every individual character released thus far has had chunks of their starter content end up in event lootboxes. The whole game's content roadmap has been designed around putting out event lootboxes. They're literally the cornerstone of the game's development.[/QUOTE]
I guess I just don't really care that much about the cosmetics, to be frank. I think they're [I]neat[/I] and there's usually a few emotes and voice lines with maybe a skin or two I want each event, but it's never the end of the world if I fail to get all of them before the event ends.
It probably helps that I've generally enjoyed the content we've gotten from the events so far, too. Even from this event which I might agree was a little sparse, I really liked the changes to and new maps for 3v3. I get people who are annoyed by all the filler fluff and minigame content and want to see new maps for QP and competitive, but I figure they're trying to make OW a genuine competitive presence so they're trying to step lightly with that kind of thing - don't want any banned maps, or anything.
Not to imply that the events [I]aren't [/I]largely attempts to make money off of skins, I suppose it just bothers me less because I enjoy the content and I'm not playing to get skins, personally. I don't think it's as important in the grand scheme of things.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52278842]Babies are upset they can't have every cosmetic in a game. Blizzard will probably give out a few free lootboxes to keep them quiet.[/QUOTE]
[I]Completely[/I] missing the point. You're defending Blizzard purposefully implementating a system in a paid game in a way that benefits [I]no one[/I] except them, being designed to exploit players who will throw money at this 'problem' because it's the only real way around it. You can't even properly get the cosmetics you do want, it's not about getting "every cosmetic".
The whole "you can get them for free!" argument falls flat. You can technically get them, but you're at a huge disadvantage. The system is designed to stop you from having a good chance of getting what you want for free without insane luck or a massive amount of time played. They could easily design a system in a way that still gets them money while being more friendly and fair to players, but instead it's an extremely greedy way that cares more about their profits due to the presence of duplicates, filler content and the large amount of skins overall, random chance and very minimal payout for getting a duplicate item. Event skins being 3 times the price and time limited only increases the problem.
It's a paid game. They've put the majority of the games reward and player customization system behind a pall wall, with a very small amount of it available for free. All that does it make it seem like that's in the game just so you can't complain about missing out entirely or it being fully P2W. There is no excuse for micotransactions being done in this way a full price, paid for game that is backed by one of the biggest publishers in gaming, was [B]massively[/B] successful from game sales alone and is made by one of the most well regarded developers in the industry.
The lootboxes aren't there for your benefit, why would you accept them as they are?
[QUOTE=Karmah;52278903]They've been in the game the entire time, and aren't compulsory and are purely cosmetic.
Not to mention that all of the items can be achieved in game for free. They are literally the only thing to work towards.
Further, this system has been well used in this game for a full year.
Speak with your wallet. If you buy the game then you support that the 2 systems can coexist, even more so if you actually buy any of the crates.
Compared to other games like TF2 which had even more cosmetics and weapons that were different gameplay wise which dropped at a slow pace + required buying keys to get them from their crates, this is infinitely better.
Honestly, the people who have a problem with this sound like people who have an impulse buying problem and/or a completionist problem with not having absolutely everything.[/QUOTE]
Did you forget that microtransactions and crates in TF2 weren't added until quite a while after the items were, and when they did get added, it also came with the ability to trade with other players so you had another way to get them?
[QUOTE=Jarokwa;52278863]i find your loyalty to blizzard quite fascinating[/QUOTE]
This isn't about loyalty, its about not throwing your toys out the pram because you can't get the skin you want.
[QUOTE=Bragdras;52278888]Weird how people only care about sprays, voicelines & avatars when they include their cost for totalling prices huh.[/QUOTE]
Yeah because they're awful filler. Oh gee, an extra 90+ items to fill the drop table to reduce the chances of getting one of the 30 items I actually want. FOR THE FANS!
Lootboxes are currently fine, but would be perfect if I could just drop like $2 on the specific legendary skin I want.
I wouldn't have purchased TF2 had I been able to see into the future, and I won't buy Overwatch.
No paid game should have microtransactions. Period.
[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52283270]I wouldn't have purchased TF2 had I been able to see into the future, and I won't buy Overwatch.
No paid game should have microtransactions. Period.[/QUOTE]
[I]would you rather have paid DLC?
[/I]I don't understand why someone would take greater issue with a game that offers continuous updates for no extra charge but offers optional micro-transactions than a game that forces you to pay for new content but doesn't have any micro-transactions. Taking issue with how they go about their business is one thing, but taking issue with optional cosmetic micro-transactions being in a paid game [I]period [/I]is a little unreasonable, I think.
[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52283390][I]would you rather have paid DLC?
[/I]I don't understand why someone would take greater issue with a game that offers continuous updates for no extra charge but offers optional micro-transactions than a game that forces you to pay for new content but doesn't have any micro-transactions. Taking issue with how they go about their business is one thing, but taking issue with optional cosmetic micro-transactions being in a paid game [I]period [/I]is a little unreasonable, I think.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand why you think the options are either for the game to have a shitty exploitative microtransaction system or for them game to have REALLY shitty paid DLC system. They should've either
A. Made the game free to play
or
B. Made the game have an upfront cost and no microtransactions
What I'm not a fan of is blizzard making the game into a frantic grind during events to get even a few of the decent skins, which then aren't available again for another year, to try and get people to dump money on the RNG boxes (which you'll rarely get what you want out of anyway). Over the past year, all cosmetics but two have been removed from the drop pool after that item's event ends. This means that player counts drop dramatically during the time where events aren't taking place, and your queue times become way longer. It sucks for people who want the cosmetics because of the ridiculous grinding you have to do to get them, and it sucks for people who don't care about the cosmetics because the matchmaking gets fucked whenever an event isn't taking place. It even sucks for people who DO pay into it, because chances of actually getting what you want are tiny. It sucks for everybody except Blizzard, who can get all of that sweet whale cash from people who buy all the skinner boxes hoping for items they're never going to actually get.
Imagine if you missed out on the year of the rooster event and will have to wait for the next year of the rooster to get on those specific items you wanted instead of buying them with the currency, you'll be waiting around 12 years for those items if they don't throw them in with another zodiac animal event box or just let you buy them in the first place.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52283432]I don't understand why you think the options are either for the game to have a shitty exploitative microtransaction system or for them game to have REALLY shitty paid DLC system. They should've either
A. Made the game free to play
or
B. Made the game have an upfront cost and no microtransactions
What I'm not a fan of is blizzard making the game into a frantic grind during events to get even a few of the decent skins, which then aren't available again for another year, to try and get people to dump money on the RNG boxes (which you'll rarely get what you want out of anyway). Over the past year, all cosmetics but two have been removed from the drop pool after that item's event ends. This means that player counts drop dramatically during the time where events aren't taking place, and your queue times become way longer. It sucks for people who want the cosmetics because of the ridiculous grinding you have to do to get them, and it sucks for people who don't care about the cosmetics because the matchmaking gets fucked whenever an event isn't taking place. It even sucks for people who DO pay into it, because chances of actually getting what you want are tiny. It sucks for everybody except Blizzard, who can get all of that sweet whale cash from people who buy all the skinner boxes hoping for items they're never going to actually get.[/QUOTE]
Neither of these are better, [I]especially[/I] free to play.
Make the game free to play: Oh boy, now we have all those wonderful problems of player disparity, massive grind, and new players that don't dump asinine amounts of money into buying heroes will be straight shafted. Better still, as the game gets more and more heroes buying them individually will probably end up more expensive than buying the game for 40$ in the first place. You're complaining about exploitation while advocating for a system that offers incentive for exploiting the player at the cost of the fucking gameplay.
Make the game have an upfront cost and no microtransactions: Overwatch is not an iterative installment. They want to support this game and keep it going for a long, long time, and I have no idea how you could expect them to continue supporting it with nothing but their early sales. Even [I]Valve[/I] realized that this wasn't sustainable for long-term development. "Well they're Blizzard and they have money" is not how it [I]works.[/I] Your project has to continue making money for there to be any justification in working on it, particularly if you're organizing tournaments and making new characters and gamemodes and maps and cinematics and comics and merchandise.
Again, taking issue with how they go about their lootboxes - fine. There should be no micro-transactions period even cosmetic ones because of reasons - ridiculous. I am not 100% pro micro-transaction, I used to have to tell my friends I wouldn't play payday with them because they used to make you buy a DLC to use grenades - but Overwatch's are harmless in comparison to that.
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