UK: Pro-EU Labour and Tory MPs look at forming a new centrist party - Polidicks

[url]http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/labour-tory-mps-talk[/url] [quote] Tory and Labour MPs have held informal discussions about establishing a new political party in the event of Andrea Leadsom becoming prime minister and Jeremy Corbyn staying as Labour leader, a cabinet minister has disclosed. Senior players in the parties have discussed founding a new centrist grouping in the mould of the Social Democratic party (SDP) should the two main parties polarise, according to the minister. Talks should be taken seriously, though they are still at an early stage, according to the source. “There have been talks between Labour and Tory MPs about a new party,” the minister said. “A number of my colleagues would not feel comfortable in a party led by Andrea Leadsom.” It is understood that MPs in both parties who campaigned to remain in the European Union believe there is an opportunity to build on the newly founded relationships between centrist MPs in both parties made before the EU referendum. A Tory party source said Labour and Conservative MPs who campaigned in favour had become closer during the campaign and increasingly come to regard themselves as “a tribe”. [/quote] Let the political madness continue

call it "manual labour".

Tories? No thanks.

[QUOTE=Lollipoopdeck;50682676]Tories? No thanks.[/QUOTE] Because looking at the world in black and white goggles is a great idea.

People predicted this would happen, and would most likely burn down in flames. Conservatives and Labour were basically the same party as of late, and now here we are.

[QUOTE=Boilrig;50682750]People predicted this would happen, and would most likely burn down in flames. Conservatives and Labour were basically the same party as of late, and now here we are.[/QUOTE] People predicted a lot of things, such as the outcome of Brexit, nobody listened, and while a lot of people have now understood what has happened, who will listen? People predict a lot of things, but it doesn't really matter because nobody listens.

The Grand Tour Party

Centrist as in centrist or centrist as in further right than new labour? Not buying it just another tory party imo.

It really does throw legitimacy to those “red Tory” insults certain labour Mps receive

[QUOTE] Their joint mission, she argues, must be to ensure that the 48.1% who voted to remain on 23 June have their share of input into the eventual deal after what was a knife-edge referendum result. Her comments reflect a growing view at Westminster that, following the 50.9% to 48.1% vote for Leave – after a campaign in which the Out camp made promises, many of which they now admit will be difficult to deliver – the views of those on the Remain side must be respected when the future of the country is determined. [/QUOTE] Only 37% who voted in the General Election voted Tory, they aren't delivering any of their policies on most fronts either but nobody suggested another party then. Williams has made a political career of jumping ship.

Why not just defect to the Lib Dems?

[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;50684362]Why not just defect to the Lib Dems?[/QUOTE] Because that party is dead

[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;50684362]Why not just defect to the Lib Dems?[/QUOTE] This can be a new party. The Neoliberal Democrats. Actually, there have been rumours that they want to name themselves "The Democrats" - which is funny, given that their founding purpose is to go against the wishes of the population as expressed in the the latest referendum.

[QUOTE=Mesothere;50684527]This can be a new party. The Neoliberal Democrats. Actually, there have been rumours that they want to name themselves "The Democrats" - which is funny, given that their founding purpose is to go against the wishes of the population as expressed in the the latest referendum.[/QUOTE] Against the will of the population a few weeks ago; remain took a significant lead in polls after the referendum showed leave were lying about most things and 'project fear' was right about most things.

[QUOTE=Mesothere;50684527]This can be a new party. The Neoliberal Democrats. Actually, there have been rumours that they want to name themselves "The Democrats" - which is funny, given that their founding purpose is to go against the wishes of the population as expressed in the the latest referendum.[/QUOTE] Except by putting in that they want to stay in the EU as part of their policies, by voting for them they still get the majority of the populations support.

[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50684575]Against the will of the population a few weeks ago; remain took a significant lead in polls after the referendum showed leave were lying about most things and 'project fear' was right about most things.[/QUOTE] I think it might be a trifle early to suggest that project fear were right a few week down the line though, but it's good that you can accept that project fear existed.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50684614]I think it might be a trifle early to suggest that project fear were right a few week down the line though, but it's good that you can accept that project fear existed.[/QUOTE] I said it existed in the form of talking about world war 3 before the referendum. I also said that the idea that the pound and economy would take big hits (as they have) if we left, was reality, not fear mongering. What a shock, that's turned out to be the case.

neoliberal.. it's not new and its not liberal

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50684614]I think it might be a trifle early to suggest that project fear were right a few week down the line though, but it's good that you can accept that project fear existed.[/QUOTE] Huh Is this project fear as in "there will be economic consequences for leaving" or project fear as in "there will be sex attacks, syrian terrorists and german dictators"?

[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50684623]I said it existed in the form of talking about world war 3 before the referendum. I also said that the idea that the pound and economy would take big hits (as they have) if we left, was reality, not fear mongering. What a shock, that's turned out to be the case.[/QUOTE] In the short term sterling has taken a hit, this was to be expected. The ftse 100 is fairly healthy, the 250 is no different to september last year. Nothing much has actually happened yet so to say 'project fear' was right about most things is slightly delusional.

Oh man hahahahahahaha: [media]https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/595112367358406656[/media]

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50684661]In the short term sterling has taken a hit, this was to be expected. The ftse 100 is fairly healthy, the 250 is no different to september last year. Nothing much has actually happened yet so to say 'project fear' was right about most things is slightly delusional.[/QUOTE] 31% of companies are planning on either freezing or cutting hiring, the ftse is inflated because of QE, the pound has not taken a hit, it has been utterly rekt and is expected to continue to fall. It's not delusional. It's reality.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50684396]Because that party is dead[/QUOTE] So rejuvenate it with some MPs?

[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50684867]31% of companies are planning on either freezing or cutting hiring, the ftse is inflated because of QE, the pound has not taken a hit, it has been utterly rekt and is expected to continue to fall. It's not delusional. It's reality.[/QUOTE] why would companies cut or freeze on hiring when nothing will change for at least 2 years?? What specific companies have said this? I deal with a lot of different companies and I don't know of any that are planning on cutting down their workforces, let alone nearly a third of them I saw talk of QE being used but have they actually done it yet? Where does it say the ftse has been bolstered by QE? Fiscal policies need to change to suit the circumstance. The pound is about 12% down on the dollar about the same as the Yuan has slipped this year. It has time to recover. So yeah you have gone a bit early with your doom and gloom predictions.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50687389]why would companies cut or freeze on hiring when nothing will change for at least 2 years?? What specific companies have said this? I deal with a lot of different companies and I don't know of any that are planning on cutting down their workforces, let alone nearly a third of them I saw talk of QE being used but have they actually done it yet? Where does it say the ftse has been bolstered by QE? Fiscal policies need to change to suit the circumstance. The pound is about 12% down on the dollar about the same as the Yuan has slipped this year. It has time to recover. So yeah you have gone a bit early with your doom and gloom predictions.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36636574]1/3 carry on as normal, 2/3 say it has a negative effect, 1/4 freezing hiring, 5% (I thought it was 6 but point stands) cutting hiring.[/url], and they'd do it now because no one knows what relationship the uk will have with Europe. I honestly fail to understand how hard you have to work to find a way to think that a fall to a 30 year low is not a problem for the pound. I'm not early, you're ignoring reality.

Not a bad idea, Most parties seem to blatantly ignore their founding principles.

[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50687532][url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36636574]1/3 carry on as normal, 2/3 say it has a negative effect, 1/4 freezing hiring, 5% (I thought it was 6 but point stands) cutting hiring.[/url], and they'd do it now because no one knows what relationship the uk will have with Europe. I honestly fail to understand how hard you have to work to find a way to think that a fall to a 30 year low is not a problem for the pound. I'm not early, you're ignoring reality.[/QUOTE] It's a short term problem that is a knee jerk reaction to the Brexit, that's why. The £ will recover the same as the ftse did, cast your mind back 2 weeks when everyone was crying because we lost billions on the stock, now it's above where it started it's like yeah but....

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50687604]It's a short term problem that is a knee jerk reaction to the Brexit, that's why. The £ will recover the same as the ftse did, cast your mind back 2 weeks when everyone was crying because we lost billions on the stock, now it's above where it started it's like yeah but....[/QUOTE] Companies don't want the risk. Why invest in the UK when you've no idea what will happen in 2 years, a recession would be devastating to any company and if people have less money or their money gets less buying power they're less likely to buy your product. if your business relies on European trade, export or import, then it's wise to minimise potential losses. you seem to imply we're better off now because the ftse is back up. Stocks are a poor indicator of economy, pound is still down, billions have been spent on qe, boe it's still considering interest rate. I know you're desperate for this Brexit thing to work but look at the facts.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50689183]Companies don't want the risk. Why invest in the UK when you've no idea what will happen in 2 years, a recession would be devastating to any company and if people have less money or their money gets less buying power they're less likely to buy your product. if your business relies on European trade, export or import, then it's wise to minimise potential losses. you seem to imply we're better off now because the ftse is back up. Stocks are a poor indicator of economy, pound is still down, billions have been spent on qe, boe it's still considering interest rate. I know you're desperate for this Brexit thing to work but look at the facts.[/QUOTE] I don't quite understand why companies are already claiming that they are freezing labour when nothing has changed yet and they don't know what will happen anyway. To suggest 31% of companies are doing this seems like a lot. Do 31% of our companies solely trade in the EU? I did not imply anything regarding the ftse, most remainers were quick to quote how much we lost initially, now it's back up they don't want to quote it anymore. I was simply saying that the ftse has recovered and the same can happen to the pound too. I think remainers are far more desperate to see the Brexit fail than I am to see it succeed which is obvious by the constant repetition of how fucked we are after only a few weeks.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50689695]I don't quite understand why companies are already claiming that they are freezing labour when nothing has changed yet and they don't know what will happen anyway.[/quote] Freeze hiring of labour (approx 25% of companies said they would be doing this). You hire when you expect to grow with that growth accounting for or being more than the cost of the additional labour. If companies feel they won't grow as quickly either from people being less willing to spend, investors less willing to invest, other businesses being less willing to enter contracts since they are unsure about the future. The uncertainty we currently face will cause all of the above. Additionally training staff takes time and money and is a big investment in itself (depending on industry and making a loss till they are sufficiently trained to make more than their cost) So why hire now when in 2 years, when they are at that trained level, you might face a contraction and have to fire that person you spent so much money and time training? [quote] To suggest 31% of companies are doing this seems like a lot.[/quote] Thats ~25% freezing hiring and ~5% (based on pre brexit survey to business owners). Note how its been rounded up. [quote] Do 31% of our companies solely trade in the EU? [/quote] This is disingenuous. You don't need to be entirely reliant on the EU to freeze hiring or cutting staff. You need to either fear lack of growth (realistic) or fear your business will be negatively impacted (around 66% of those in the above survey said brexit would negatively impact their business). Each sector may have different reasons for this. Ah I forgot those are stats from experts, you've had enough of experts. Lemme rephrase that fancy elite-speak. Lots of people think brexit will hurt their business. [quote] I did not imply anything regarding the ftse, most remainers were quick to quote how much we lost initially, now it's back up they don't want to quote it anymore. I was simply saying that the ftse has recovered and the same can happen to the pound too. [/quote] Billions were spent on QE. That'll end up costing us in taxes it also means the stocks will be artificially inflated. The uncertainty will hit again once (if) article 50 is trigger and if negotiations go badly we will suffer another big hit. [quote] I think remainers are far more desperate to see the Brexit fail than I am to see it succeed which is obvious by the constant repetition of how fucked we are after only a few weeks.[/QUOTE] All I really want is to stay in the EU or at least stay in the EEA. Sadly mouth breathers who think immigrants are the reason primary and secondary industry left the country will throw the toys out of their pram if we keep free movement.