Palmer United proposes bill that would make it a crime to force a child to wear a Burka - Polidicks

[quote]Muslim parents would be fined tens of thousands of dollars and face jail if they make their teenage girls wear the burqa as part of Palmer United senator Jacqui Lambie's bid to outlaw the headwear in Australia, despite a Parliamentary research paper warning her proposed laws would likely be struck down by the High Court. PUP leader Clive Palmer again distanced himself from his maverick senator on Tuesday and told the media Ms Lambie had not put her draft bill to the party and he had no idea what it contained. Read more: [url]http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/parents-face-jail-and-34000-fines-under-jacqui-lambies-burqa-ban-proposal-20141028-11cyzr.html#ixzz3HTCjj3Tl[/url] [/quote] She might be a wingbat but I agree it should be a crime to force a child to wear a Burka or similar.

It should be a crime to force a child to wear anything. Except pants.

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46353213]It should be a crime to force a child to wear anything. Except pants.[/QUOTE] and shirts

Doesn't this kinda encroach on religious freedoms?

If I'm not correct, don't you have to be like 10 or so before you have to wear a burka? I thought there was some age limit.

[QUOTE=Megadave;46353264]If I'm not correct, don't you have to be like 10 or so before you have to wear a burka? I thought there was some age limit.[/QUOTE] That's what it says in the article, that the law makes it a crime to force teenagers to wear the burka. Which I think is great; I imagine many women who voluntarily wear the burka now only do so because they've grown used to it, eliminating that issue will mean the only people who wear burkas are those who chose to do so as adults.

[QUOTE=Sableye;46353222]and shirts[/QUOTE] I was referring to underwear. Personally, I've seen kids (both male and female) running around with no tops on, and honestly if they want to run around without one on, that's fair enough. It's not like adults aren't allowed to. [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] That said, if they're in a building or something then it's probably best for the child to be fully clothed.

[QUOTE=Sableye;46353222]and shirts[/QUOTE] and shoes and sock's

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46353241]Doesn't this kinda encroach on religious freedoms?[/QUOTE] Burka if anything is the total opposite of freedom.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46353241]Doesn't this kinda encroach on religious freedoms?[/QUOTE] It is not a freedom to force someone to do something. What about the child's freedoms? They are not their parents property and parents cannot dictate a child's religion.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46353241]Doesn't this kinda encroach on religious freedoms?[/QUOTE] Human freedoms > religious freedoms

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;46354146]Human freedoms > religious freedoms[/QUOTE] There's no human freedom (for children) to wear whatever they want. I'm not a fan of the Burka, but I don't see how this type of legislation also wouldn't apply to anything that the child didn't want to wear. For example, let's say you don't allow your young daughter to go out in very skimpy clothing... I guess you're encroaching on her freedom? This seems like more of a direct attack on Islam than for any sort of human freedom.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46354301]There's no human freedom (for children) to wear whatever they want. I'm not a fan of the Burka, but I don't see how this type of legislation also wouldn't apply to anything that the child didn't want to wear. For example, let's say you don't allow your young daughter to go out in very skimpy clothing... I guess you're encroaching on her freedom? This seems like more of a direct attack on Islam than for any sort of human freedom.[/QUOTE] I hate to have to point this out, but a lot of the culture associated with Islam is anti-human. As for your argument, while it's arguably important for someone to cover themselves for the sake of decency, it's even more important that a person feels like a person. Ironically, the burka only makes women feel more objectified by implying that their body is a symbol of perversion and sexuality. A decent outfit, while still covering a person and allowing them to retain some form of modesty, allows a woman to express herself the way she wants.

[QUOTE=freaka;46353925]Burka if anything is the total opposite of freedom.[/QUOTE] The great majority of women who wear burqas in western countries are doing so on their own behalf, not because they were forced to.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46354301]There's no human freedom (for children) to wear whatever they want. I'm not a fan of the Burka, but I don't see how this type of legislation also wouldn't apply to anything that the child didn't want to wear. For example, let's say you don't allow your young daughter to go out in very skimpy clothing... I guess you're encroaching on her freedom? This seems like more of a direct attack on Islam than for any sort of human freedom.[/QUOTE] I kinda do agree with that last part; I'm not aware of any other laws that make it a crime to make your kid wear something for religious purposes. [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;46354565]The great majority of women who wear burqas in western countries are doing so on their own behalf, not because they were forced to.[/QUOTE] How are authorities gonna know the difference?

[QUOTE=Megadave;46353264]If I'm not correct, don't you have to be like 10 or so before you have to wear a burka? I thought there was some age limit.[/QUOTE] females can wear burka as soon as they get their first period.

[QUOTE=nerdster409;46354602] How are authorities gonna know the difference?[/QUOTE] Better question, why waste the resources enforcing this?

[QUOTE=nerdster409;46354602]How are authorities gonna know the difference?[/QUOTE] They won't. There is no need for this law to exist because if a kid is already being physically reprehended into wearing a burqa then child protection services can already intervene.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46354752]They won't. There is no need for this law to exist because if a kid is already being physically reprehended into wearing a burqa then child protection services can already intervene.[/QUOTE] Exactly, this entire law is just either going to be abused or misused for those willing to stereotype.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46354752]They won't. There is no need for this law to exist because if a kid is already being physically reprehended into wearing a burqa then child protection services can already intervene.[/QUOTE]But like some incidents involving Child Protection Services, the parents don't understand what they did wrong before it's too late. To make it a full blown law allows people to see the law and go "Oh, I'll get in trouble for that." Otherwise, they may never understand.

[QUOTE=LobsterPastry;46355029]But like some incidents involving Child Protection Services, the parents don't understand what they did wrong before it's too late. To make it a full blown law allows people to see the law and go "Oh, I'll get in trouble for that." Otherwise, they may never understand.[/QUOTE] Does it really require a law to make people think: "Hmm, maybe forcing my own ideals onto my child isn't the best of ideas." I understand your logic, but doing it through a law just shows an underlying problem, not general idiocity.

[QUOTE=Foxtrot200;46354512]I hate to have to point this out, but a lot of the culture associated with Islam is anti-human. As for your argument, while it's arguably important for someone to cover themselves for the sake of decency, it's even more important that a person feels like a person. Ironically, the burka only makes women feel more objectified by implying that their body is a symbol of perversion and sexuality. A decent outfit, while still covering a person and allowing them to retain some form of modesty, allows a woman to express herself the way she wants.[/QUOTE] Your drawing an arbitrary line by saying that X amount of clothing is appropriate, but Y amount of clothing is oppressive. I can easily see a young girl making the exact same argument amount wearing a small amount of clothing. It's legal and who are her parents to oppress her by forcing her to wear more? As a side note: I'm not Muslim and don't like agree with their general treatment of women. So I'm not arguing from religious agreement. I just think we need to be clear that this is an attack on specifically Muslim ideals, not a general statement about freedom.

[QUOTE=Zerohope;46355305]Does it really require a law to make people think: "Hmm, maybe forcing my own ideals onto my child isn't the best of ideas." I understand your logic, but doing it through a law just shows an underlying problem, not general idiocity.[/QUOTE] Can I just point out you're trying to force an idea on someone forcing an ideal. Its not gonna work.

Christ this is the biggest dog-whistle I've seen in years. Lambie really shows her paranoid islamophobia in this stinker of a proposal.

How about forcing kids to do anything religious? i was fucking forced to do my first communion. Religion needs to end.

[QUOTE=Subby;46356210]How about forcing kids to do anything religious? i was fucking forced to do my first communion. [B]Religion needs to end[/B].[/QUOTE] Yeah good luck with that because I'm pretty sure a majority of the world's population practices a religion in one way or another and trying to enforce a ban on it would trigger a war. But yeah I agree, parents shouldn't be allow to force their religious beliefs onto their child, but unfortunately many parents who do it see it as their natural right and there also a lot of parents who view their children as their property until they move out.

So now parents wont force their kids to wear one. They'll just withold nonessential things and reward them if the child wears it. Its hard to enforce nearly anything preventing parents from raising kids in a specific manner because you dont need to force kids to do anything, you just need to remind them that you can always resort to giving them the bare minimum of what they need.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46354301]There's no human freedom (for children) to wear whatever they want. I'm not a fan of the Burka, but I don't see how this type of legislation also wouldn't apply to anything that the child didn't want to wear. For example, let's say you don't allow your young daughter to go out in very skimpy clothing... I guess you're encroaching on her freedom? This seems like more of a direct attack on Islam than for any sort of human freedom.[/QUOTE] would you not support a similar legislation stopping people from forcing their children to not have blood transplants in times of medical needs because their religion is against it?

I think people should be careful to assume that women are only choosing to wear these clothing articles because they were raised that way. That is not necessarily true and really as long as they're comfortable not a problem. And as for the opposite direction, banning skimpy clothing for young children again it's the same thing. Whilst it's the parents job to help the children to understand what is happening they are literally incapable of fully preventing them from wearing those clothes - prohibition doesn't work remember? Kids shouldn't be forced to wear anything they don't want to. I think that a parent can easily guide their children without forcing anything to adhere to their standards - how do they propose to determine whether a child was forced to wear a burqa?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46356268]would you not support a similar legislation stopping people from forcing their children to not have blood transplants in times of medical needs because their religion is against it?[/QUOTE] Do you honestly see a life saving medical procedure as being any way equivalent to wearing a certain type of clothes? I'm obviously not arguing that ANY and ALL religious tradition should be allowed, no matter what.