• Vitamin supplements are not beneficial, and increase your chance of dying by up to 28%
    64 replies, posted
Studies throughout the last 100 years have demonstrated that Vitamin supplements do not do anything, and actually [b]increases[/b] your chance of dying from a number of ailments, diseases and afflictions by up to 28% (Cancer). [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/07/vitamins-stop-taking-the-pills[/url] Makes sense to me. IMO, If you eat a banana, it's packed with it's natural vitamin content, probably in a lower dosage, as well as supporting nutrients. If you're popping Vit C pills daily, it's in some absurd dosage, probably like the amount you'd find in a month's worth of oranges, and with no other nutritional value. If anything you'd be causing more stress to the body as the supplements would need to be detoxified (as everything is).
I've already known this. Normal food also contains things we either (a) don't know about and/or (b) can't supplement. Basically, if you need more vitamin C, eat more citrus fruit.
We've known this for awhile, a lot of the "supplements" aren't as easily absorbed as what you'd normally metabolize from eating "Real" vitamins. As for it causing a higher "death rate", that might just be correlation over causation (since you're on them because you already have a higher chance of getting X or Y: that type of stuff)
Fuck, and here I've been taking 3 different multivitamins a day. Guess I'll just stick with my fishoil.
IMO the only reason you should need to take vitamin supplements is if you are sick.
[I]"Terms such as conventional and alternative medicine are misleading. If a clinical trial shows that a therapy works, it's not an alternative. And if it doesn't work, it's also not an alternative. In a sense, there's no such thing as alternative medicine."[/I] I agree with this statement so hard. It used to grind my gears when people called anything non-empirical a 'placebo'. If something works [i]for you[/i], who even gives a fuck about the terminology?
[QUOTE=Lolx0rz;40946370]IMO the only reason you should need to take vitamin supplements is if you are sick.[/QUOTE] Funny thing; I've been getting more sick since I've been taking multivitamins. Right now I'm dealing with a raging cold and my lower colon throbbing with pain.
It makes sense, in a way. Stuff that grows fast needs vitamins and stuff to grow fast. There's a thing called bioavailability that describes how accessible a nutrient is to your body, which goes down when in supplement form. Basically evolution evoluted us to eat fruits and not pills so I believe this.
[QUOTE=Weirdness;40946369]Fuck, and here I've been taking 3 different multivitamins a day. Guess I'll just stick with my fishoil.[/QUOTE] Why not just eat some fish, instead of tanning some fish oil? I bet it tastes better eating some salmon than it does smashing one of those capsules. [editline]8th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Whiterfire;40946416]It makes sense, in a way. Stuff that grows fast needs vitamins and stuff to grow fast. There's a thing called bioavailability that describes how accessible a nutrient is to your body, which goes down when in supplement form. Basically evolution evoluted us to eat fruits and not pills so I believe this.[/QUOTE] It's because the body isn't accustomed to taking shit in it's pure form, getting stuff from oranges and shit the body is all over that, start spanking pills and the body will treat it like a pure substance on high concentration and mostly reject it.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;40946384][I]"Terms such as conventional and alternative medicine are misleading. If a clinical trial shows that a therapy works, it's not an alternative. And if it doesn't work, it's also not an alternative. In a sense, there's no such thing as alternative medicine."[/I] I agree with this statement so hard. It used to grind my gears when people called anything non-empirical a 'placebo'. If something works [i]for you[/i], who even gives a fuck about the terminology?[/QUOTE] Uh the problem with "alternative" medicine isn't that it's alternative but that it typically doesn't fucking do anything. It's not a matter of if it "works for you", I mean if what you're suffering from is so purely psychological that all you need to do is "feel" better then it's not medicine. Homeopathy is a great example of a so called "alternative medicine" which does nothing to help you.
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;40946427]Why not just eat some fish, instead of tanning some fish oil? I bet it tastes better eating some salmon than it does smashing one of those capsules.[/QUOTE] Salmon is hella expensive though (about 11-13 euro/kg). At least over here.
I'm taking multivitamins and they make me feel great. Better sleep, better skin, better hair and nails. So I think the statement that they're just a big con-industry is a bit of an exaggeration. [editline]8th June 2013[/editline] I get achey knees a lot, but when I take fish oil supplements, my knees don't bother me.
[QUOTE=Drag0nSnak3;40946441]Salmon is hella expensive though (about 11-13 euro/kg). At least over here.[/QUOTE] Ah, I'm Scottish so it's pretty cheap here, still, the price is worth the deliciousness of a salmon steak or some wafer thin smoked salmon.
[QUOTE=Elspin;40946439]Uh the problem with "alternative" medicine isn't that it's alternative but that it typically doesn't fucking do anything. It's not a matter of if it "works for you", I mean if what you're suffering from is so purely psychological that all you need to do is "feel" better then it's not medicine. Homeopathy is a great example of a so called "alternative medicine" which does nothing to help you.[/QUOTE] I quoted the italic'd section from the article. ITT, homeopathy slots in the same category as vitamins, which is 'not-medicine' yet it's somehow considered 'alternative medicine' nevertheless, whilst things that do work are still considered 'alternative'.
[QUOTE=Weirdness;40946369]Fuck, and here I've been taking 3 different multivitamins a day. Guess I'll just stick with my fishoil.[/QUOTE] There's no real proof that fish oil does anything beneficial in healthy adults.
Well this doesn't help my hypochondria at all. I've been taking those one-a-day multivitamins because I don't eat much, and when I DO eat, it's usually not very nutritional stuff because I don't make a whole lot of money and can't afford better stuff.
Vitamin supplements are good for people who eat nothing but shit every day. They say it shouldn't replace a balanced diet, but really, I reckon it's aimed for people who don't have a balanced diet to begin with. Anything else and you're basically throwing money away to make expensive yellow piss.
[QUOTE=Elspin;40946439]Uh the problem with "alternative" medicine isn't that it's alternative but that it typically doesn't fucking do anything. It's not a matter of if it "works for you", I mean if what you're suffering from is so purely psychological that all you need to do is "feel" better then it's not medicine. Homeopathy is a great example of a so called "alternative medicine" which does nothing to help you.[/QUOTE] Not to mention that it's dangerous thinking. Homeopathy and chiropracty are no better than faith healing. People could die due to their belief in these systems over proven, effective treatments with results. And if your problem is solved by a placebo that means you might have a deeper psychological issue that you need to get checked out. All you're doing at that point is masking the symptoms, not solving the underlying problem.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;40946496]I quoted the italic'd section from the article. ITT, homeopathy slots in the same category as vitamins, which is 'not-medicine' yet it's somehow considered 'alternative medicine' nevertheless, whilst things that do work are still considered 'alternative'.[/QUOTE] The difference is vitamins are something your body actually needs whereas homeopathy is irrelevant. Whether or not your body can absorb vitamins in pill form is an interesting but extremely odd topic, but they definitely don't belong in the same category. The study as far as I can tell makes absolutely no link between correlation and causation - it could just be that a lot of people taking vitamins think they can eat shitty due to having the vitamins.
[QUOTE=Weirdness;40946387]Funny thing; I've been getting more sick since I've been taking multivitamins. Right now I'm dealing with a raging cold and my lower colon throbbing with pain.[/QUOTE] Maybe it's because you've been taking 3 damn vitamins a day?
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;40946427]Why not just eat some fish, instead of tanning some fish oil? I bet it tastes better eating some salmon than it does smashing one of those capsules. [/QUOTE] You make it sound like eating fish is easier than swallowing a couple of capsules. It's not like you crack the gel cap open and drink it. :V
[QUOTE=Chicken_Chaser;40946587]You make it sound like eating fish is easier than swallowing a couple of capsules. It's not like you crack the gel cap open and drink it. :V[/QUOTE] Easier, no, but it's always better to get your nutrition from natural sources if at all possible.
Chance of dying: 128%
[QUOTE=Chicken_Chaser;40946587]You make it sound like eating fish is easier than swallowing a couple of capsules. It's not like you crack the gel cap open and drink it. :V[/QUOTE] Your body isn't a fan of super high concentrations, it tends to either reject or ignore them.
With all science papers making their way to the mass media I was a bit sceptical at first, journalists love twisting facts and omitting important bits of data to make their point. However so far (I only managed to get through 3 of the papers mentioned in the article) it seems legit. The only issue I had was the original article they talk about does not contain dose information regarding the supplements. Which is pretty important, but the other articles seem to have doses took by the patients. Still the biggest issue I have right now is about dosing and RDA. Most of the supplements contain several times the daily required amount in a single pill. From what I can gather, most of the mortality responses are dose related too, which points to blaming vitamins as a whole instead of supplements (but I guess that is not sensationalist enough). For example, you would have to eat about 40 small oranges to get the same amount of vitamin C some of these people (in the "Antioxidant supplements for prevention of gastrointestinal cancers: a systematic review and meta-analysis" paper) were taking. Without a study to determine the effects of getting the same amount of vitamins from natural sources I will not blindly say supplements are causing mortality. It is the amount of vitamins you take. So please don't simply assume you can eat tons of fruit with no ill effects (apart from everything else, 40 oranges would probably give you the diarrhoea of a lifetime). But overall the papers point to an interesting and important problem. With so many people taking so many supplements day in day out, these effects might be playing an important role in the development of cancer and I hope further research will be carried out.
[QUOTE=Kegan;40946518]Well this doesn't help my hypochondria at all. I've been taking those one-a-day multivitamins because I don't eat much, and when I DO eat, it's usually not very nutritional stuff because I don't make a whole lot of money and can't afford better stuff.[/QUOTE] The cheapest stuff you can possibly buy is the most nutritious - raw fruit, vegetables & other whole foods. Cut wheat, cut meat, both unnecessary luxuries, not to mention taxing on digestion. You'll find you probably won't need to eat as much, as the body's energy expenditure for digestion/detox will be lower. Go to a smaller market/grocer as opposed to a supermarket, you'll save lots of money and the food quality will likely be higher. Organic would be best, but more costly.
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;40946688]Your body isn't a fan of super high concentrations, it tends to either reject or ignore them.[/QUOTE] This sounds ridiculous. Your body doesn't reject things. If that was the case, why do we not reject poison? I'm pretty sure your body absorbs whatever the fuck you put inside it (if it's even able to be absorbed by us). Hence why people can OD on Vitamin A and C and stuff. Digestion and absorption happens via passive diffusion. IE it's not in our control. [editline]8th June 2013[/editline] Can't help but think of that judge that claimed rape victim's bodies can reject the sperm of the rapist. [editline]8th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SCopE5000;40946722]The cheapest stuff you can possibly buy is the most nutritious - raw fruit, vegetables & other whole foods. Cut wheat, [B]cut meat[/B], both unnecessary luxuries, not to mention taxing on digestion.[/QUOTE] Yes, cut out a primary source of protein. Great idea! It's not like our body needs large amount of protein or amino acids... Oh wait. Though I agree with the wheat being a luxury, we don't really need it. I don't know what it's like in America, but over in the UK, the only cheap fruit / vegetables are the ones completely smothered with pesticides. Getting organic produce costs a lot more.
[QUOTE=loopoo;40946737]Yes, cut out a primary source of protein. Great idea! It's not like our body needs large amount of protein or amino acids... Oh wait. Though I agree with the wheat being a luxury, we don't really need it.[/QUOTE] Nuts, beans, greek yogurt, quinoa, eggs. 9G protein per 1/4 cup of peanuts, can't complain.
Also I would like to point out there are "natural vitamins". There might be natural sources for vitamins, but a vitamin is a vitamin no matter where it comes from. Now fruit and vegetables might have other chemicals in them protecting people from cancer or whatever, but chemically the vitamins are the same.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;40946722]The cheapest stuff you can possibly buy is the most nutritious - raw fruit, vegetables & other whole foods. Cut wheat, cut meat, both unnecessary luxuries, not to mention taxing on digestion. You'll find you probably won't need to eat as much, as the body's energy expenditure for digestion/detox will be lower. Go to a smaller market/grocer as opposed to a supermarket, you'll save lots of money and the food quality will likely be higher. Organic would be best, but more costly.[/QUOTE] Whole grains, especially with "ground wheat" as the first ingredient, are an excellent source of dietary fibers as well as naturally occurring nutrients that might appear in a multivitamin. Lean meats such as chicken, beef every now and then, and fish & shellfish are an excellent source of protein and additional nutrients. Do not get these mixed up with white bread, which is bad for your digestion; and fatty, often processed meats, which are not good to eat for every meal. Basically try to eat unprocessed foods from varied sources and you're fine. You're allowed to have a cupcake or a soda or some bacon from time to time, it won't kill you. Also, try to eat your bodyweight (in pounds,) in protien (in grams,) per day as a sort of catch all so your muscles can regrow properly (If you weight 150 lbs, you should be eating 150 g protein.) (You should also be doing some sort of strength training and cardio but this should go without saying.)
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