Karzai expels US special forces from Wardak province over torture allegations
43 replies, posted
[t]http://imgkk.com/i/d94g.png[/t]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21566295[/url]
[quote]The Afghan president has ordered US special forces to leave Wardak province within two weeks over allegations of disappearances and torture.
The measures were being taken due to the actions of Afghans considered to be part of US special forces, said a spokesman for Hamid Karzai.
The strategically significant, central province of Wardak has been the recent focus of counter-insurgency operations.[/quote]
Special Forces guys wouldn't really make people disappear and torture them. That is more Delta's schtick. Green Berets do raids and cointerinsurgency operations using unconventional tactics (in the execution of a combat action, that is) and training of indigenous forces. This will do more harm than good in the long run. If you guys are not aware, Karzai is corrupt and pretty crazy. However, since we are operating in his country, we operate under his direction as well. This will come back to bite him in the ass when we leave, and Wardak will still be a hive of insurgent activity.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;39701221]Special Forces guys wouldn't really make people disappear and torture them. That is more Delta's schtick. Green Berets do raids and cointerinsurgency operations using unconventional tactics (in the execution of a combat action, that is) and training of indigenous forces. This will do more harm than good in the long run. If you guys are not aware, Karzai is corrupt and pretty crazy. However, since we are operating in his country, we operate under his direction as well. This will come back to bite him in the ass when we leave, and Wardak will still be a hive of insurgent activity.[/QUOTE]
Delta Force are special forces though - "1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta", but more on point I would imagine this would include all special forces and organisations like the CIA.
[QUOTE=Camundongo;39701355]Delta Force are special forces though - "1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta", but more on point I would imagine this would include all special forces and organisations like the CIA.[/QUOTE]
There are Special Forces (there is a reason why I capitalize this) which are the green berets exclusively, and then there is Delta and Flight Concepts. I'll chalk it up to the media not knowing the confusing intricacies of how the government names units and puts them under weird commands. I would imagine you are right, though. The CIA are up to some funny things sometimes.
-shit shit wrong thread-
[QUOTE=SKEEA;39701221]Special Forces guys wouldn't really make people disappear and torture them. That is more Delta's schtick. Green Berets do raids and cointerinsurgency operations using unconventional tactics (in the execution of a combat action, that is) and training of indigenous forces. This will do more harm than good in the long run. If you guys are not aware, Karzai is corrupt and pretty crazy. However, since we are operating in his country, we operate under his direction as well. This will come back to bite him in the ass when we leave, and Wardak will still be a hive of insurgent activity.[/QUOTE]
are you just talking out of your ass? I dont think anyone really knows whats happening
[QUOTE=Madtoker;39701417]are you just talking out of your ass? I dont think anyone really knows whats happening[/QUOTE]
*Sigh* I hate doing this nowadays. Ok, I just came back from deployment. My unit worked pretty closely with SOF (Special Operations Forces, pretty much anything "special") and provided counterinsurgency and recon support from Kiowas. You get a lot more of an idea of what is going on when you talk with these guys. They are the real tip of the spear with this kinda thing. So no, I am not talking out of my ass.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;39701500]*Sigh* I hate doing this nowadays. Ok, I just came back from deployment. My unit worked pretty closely with SOF (Special Operations Forces, pretty much anything "special") and provided counterinsurgency and recon support from Kiowas. You get a lot more of an idea of what is going on when you talk with these guys. They are the real tip of the spear with this kinda thing. So no, I am not talking out of my ass.[/QUOTE]
Aren't you just a helicopter mechanic?
And remember that thread when you said you and your unit knew all about this Al-jazeera news team that apparently liked to work with the Taliban to setup their cameras to get the best footage which also turned out to be bollocks?
Karzai either wants to appease the Taliban, or actually sympathizes with them. Even if you manage to root out all of the taliban fighters, the idea remains.
Interventions in such countries don't work without actively changing the demographics, and thus such interventions are doomed from the start.
[QUOTE=PatrickT;39701582]Karzai either wants to appease the Taliban, or actually sympathizes with them. Even if you manage to root out all of the taliban fighters, the idea remains.
Intervention in such countries does not work without actively changing the demographics, and thus such interventions are doomed from the start.[/QUOTE]
Huh?
Or maybe they're having the same trouble with special forces as they had in Vietnam.
just because he is a helicopter crew chief does not mean he has no idea what the rest of his unit is up to.
[QUOTE=milktree;39701601]just because he is a helicopter crew chief does not mean he has no idea what the rest of his unit is up to.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but why would he have any idea what special forces units are up to? They hardly get back to base and go 'Hey guys, you'd never believe what we did last night!'.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;39701622]he is a small cog in a massive machine
he knows no more than the rest of us.[/QUOTE]
this just makes you sound like a huge stupid conspiracy theorist if you're not being sarcastic.
That doesn't mean he couldn't of spoken to one of them on their downtime?
See this is why I wanted to avoid trying to bring my firsthand experience into this sort of thing. You all go on and on about how I just fixed helicopters. That is true, that is my primary job. However, this does not mean that I am shut in a tiny bubble out on the flight line. I actually go to other places, have friends in special units, talk and interface with the other soldiers that we work with, and see the footage that the warrants record on the MMS (Mast Mounted Sight, the ball on top of the Kiowa), helmet cams, and their handheld cameras. I was around Special Forces a lot. So yeah, my job has about zero bearing on my firsthand experience. I have two eyeballs and a set of ears. My job does not change what I have seen and heard.
[editline]24th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Camundongo;39701652]Yeah, but why would he have any idea what special forces units are up to? They hardly get back to base and go 'Hey guys, you'd never believe what we did last night!'.[/QUOTE]
You would be surprised.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;39701691]See this is why I wanted to avoid trying to bring my firsthand experience into this sort of thing. You all go on and on about how I just fixed helicopters. That is true, that is my primary job. However, this does not mean that I am shut in a tiny bubble out on the flight line. I actually go to other places, have friends in special units, talk and interface with the other soldiers that we work with, and see the footage that the warrants record on the MMS (Mast Mounted Sight, the ball on top of the Kiowa), helmet cams, and their handheld cameras. I was around Special Forces a lot. So yeah, my job has about zero bearing on my firsthand experience. I have two eyeballs and a set of ears. My job does not change what I have seen and heard.
[editline]24th February 2013[/editline]
You would be surprised.[/QUOTE]
Remember when you said you had an insight into how Al-Jazeera News colludes with the Taliban based purely on your position. That was a laugh
(My point being, I remember last time you tried to pull your service card as a reason why your opinion is more valid and it turned out all your military buddies got fed bullshit)
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39701749]Remember when you said you had an insight into how Al-Jazeera News colludes with the Taliban based purely on your position. That was a laugh[/QUOTE]
That was a mistake. A poorly-informed mistake courtesy of the people we replaced. I acknowledge my farce there, however that really has no bearing on the current topic.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;39701762]That was a mistake. A poorly-informed mistake courtesy of the people we replaced. I acknowledge my farce there, however that really has no bearing on the current topic.[/QUOTE]
But you believed your point then had the same validity as the same crap you're trying to pull now.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39701779]But you believed your point then had the same validity as the same crap you're trying to pull now.[/QUOTE]
That was what is called the "Private News Network" and I really should not have bought into it. However, these are actually things that I have seen with my own two eyes. There's the actual difference.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;39701796]However, these are actually things that I have seen with my own two eyes. There's the actual difference.[/QUOTE]
What, special forces units in Wardak?
[QUOTE=SKEEA;39701691]See this is why I wanted to avoid trying to bring my firsthand experience into this sort of thing. You all go on and on about how I just fixed helicopters. That is true, that is my primary job. However, this does not mean that I am shut in a tiny bubble out on the flight line. I actually go to other places, have friends in special units, talk and interface with the other soldiers that we work with, and see the footage that the warrants record on the MMS (Mast Mounted Sight, the ball on top of the Kiowa), helmet cams, and their handheld cameras. I was around Special Forces a lot. So yeah, my job has about zero bearing on my firsthand experience. I have two eyeballs and a set of ears. My job does not change what I have seen and heard.
[editline]24th February 2013[/editline]
You would be surprised.[/QUOTE]
My old man's section often escorted members of the SAS, and of the forerunner to the SRS, to and from the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland during the Troubles (something that was done to let them slip by unnoticed, and was rotated between several squadrons). Still doesn't mean he, anyone else in his section, or even his OC knew what the fuck they were up to out there.
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[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This has nothing to do with the thread." - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39701805]What, special forces units in Wardak?[/QUOTE]
SF units in general. I am saying that I find making people disappear and torturing them outside of their normal procedures, and that other units or government agencies would be more fitting, rather than them blaming SF (green berets). That is the only claim I was trying to make.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;39701854]I find making people disappear and torturing them outside of their normal procedures[/QUOTE]
No shit. Hence the boot.
Anyways, I am out of here. I need to take a buddy to the PX, so that's all from me.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;39701870]Anyways, I am out of here. I need to take a buddy to the PX, so that's all from me.[/QUOTE]
No offense but this sounds like a cop-out.
you people are children
[QUOTE=Zambies!;39701897]No offense but this sounds like a cop-out.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I really had to take him to the PX. He needed a new phone, and he doesn't have a car, so I obliged. He knocked on my door in the middle of all this. That's all. He took priority over a dumb internet argument. Anyways, I am out of here. No point in continuing this. I said my piece.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;39701691]See this is why I wanted to avoid trying to bring my firsthand experience into this sort of thing. You all go on and on about how I just fixed helicopters. That is true, that is my primary job. However, this does not mean that I am shut in a tiny bubble out on the flight line. I actually go to other places, have friends in special units, talk and interface with the other soldiers that we work with, and see the footage that the warrants record on the MMS (Mast Mounted Sight, the ball on top of the Kiowa), helmet cams, and their handheld cameras. I was around Special Forces a lot. So yeah, my job has about zero bearing on my firsthand experience. I have two eyeballs and a set of ears. My job does not change what I have seen and heard.
[editline]24th February 2013[/editline]
You would be surprised.[/QUOTE]
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[editline]24th February 2013[/editline]
[i]Whoops wrong chat[/i]
Guys why are you arguing about american special forces when this was done by afghans under temporary american command according to the article?
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