[QUOTE]During Wednesday's Democratic debate in Miami, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) both promised not to deport children or non-criminal undocumented immigrants, and criticized President Barack Obama for doing so.
"I do not have the same policy as the current administration does," Clinton said. She added the U.S. should "stop the raids."
"I will not deport deport children. I would not deport children," Clinton said later. "I do not want to deport family members either."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Sanders hit Clinton for her comments, and made promises of his own. He said Obama "is wrong on this issue of deportation."
"I will not deport children from the United States of America," Sanders said, adding that he also "can make that promise" that he won't deport non-criminal undocumented immigrants.
Obama has never made such a blanket promise, but rather he has repeatedly said his administration will focus enforcement on violent criminals and national security threats. Although the rate of deportations in general has gone down from record highs in the early years of his presidency, it's not enough to prevent every family from being ripped apart or to allow every person who asks for asylum in the U.S. to stay. [/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democratic-debate-deporting-children_us_56e0e3ebe4b065e2e3d4d907"]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democratic-debate-deporting-children_us_56e0e3ebe4b065e2e3d4d907[/URL]
Aren't all illegal immigrants inherently criminal because it's illegal for them to be in the US?
It's like decriminalization, you don't go to jail for it, but you do have to hand it over if you get caught, or get deported.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;49905531]yep, but otherwise they have the lowest crime stats (outside of illegally being here) of any other demographic in the us
not much to gain by committing a crime as an illegal and everything to lose, it's a pretty good deterrent[/QUOTE]
Also recently Texas argued they should pay taxes but not count towards congressional districts, IE have no representation
I think we should deport criminal illegal immigrants, but all the hardworking people should be given some sort of path to citizenship. However, if we make it too lenient, it's unfair to the legal immigrants who spent years and thousands of dollars trying to immigrate to the US.
Here is the thing. It doesn't have to be easy, but it should make sense
Just give them a path to citizenship and a chance to become legal, don't give them all a free pass lol this is dumb. Real legal immigrants will stop using the system.
[QUOTE=Firetornado;49905709]Just give them a path to citizenship and a chance to become legal, don't give them all a free pass lol this is dumb. Real legal immigrants will stop using the system.[/QUOTE]
Maybe if the legal immigration process wasn't so expensive, more people would use it.
[QUOTE=Sableye;49905600]Also recently Texas argued they should pay taxes but not count towards congressional districts, IE have no representation[/QUOTE]
Honestly there's merit to that.
They're in the country and utilizing its infrastructure, they should pay for it like everyone else using the infrastructure.
[I]but[/I] if they want a say in how the government does its job, [I]they should become citizens and actually join the country they want to have a say in.[/I]
[QUOTE=Sableye;49905600]Also recently Texas argued they should pay taxes but not count towards congressional districts, IE have no representation[/QUOTE]
Well this makes sense to me; if they have no political voice then politicians shouldnt be allowed to use them to their advantage to pad their electoral votes, etc. It's the same thing as with the 3/5ths compromise with slaves. It was actually the slave-holding states that wanted slaves to count as full people, so that their populations would be much higher, giving them more congressional representatives and more electoral votes. It was the Northern states which said "no; if they can't vote, then they shouldn't receive more representation from white slave owners who will only work to keep them enslaved". Having slaves count for nothing was the [I]progressive[/I] position. The 3/5ths compromise was a result of this.
[QUOTE=Sableye;49905600]Also recently Texas argued they should pay taxes but not count towards congressional districts, IE have no representation[/QUOTE]
Isn't that taxation without representation?
Can you even propose that? Isn't that in the constitution?
[QUOTE=woolio1;49905825]Isn't that taxation without representation?
Can you even propose that? Isn't that in the constitution?[/QUOTE]
No it's not, and taxation without representation was a 1770s buzzword that meant nothing. Taxation wasn't the issue during the revolution.
I wish people should stop using the term "illegals." It's dehumanizing. There are other, valid terms that can be used, such as illegal immigrants, or undocumented immigrants.
[QUOTE=woolio1;49905825]Isn't that taxation without representation?
Can you even propose that? Isn't that in the constitution?[/QUOTE]
Then they can stop using anything that receives public funding, including roadways, hospitals, and schools.
[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;49905848]I wish people should stop using the term "illegals." It's dehumanizing. There are other, valid terms that can be used, such as illegal immigrants, or undocumented immigrants.[/QUOTE]
It's just a shortening of illegal immigrants. I think in our language that certain words are not racist or dehumanizing in themselves but are often associated with racist people. Like "oriental", for example. Not racist, but used by racist people.
[QUOTE=IrishBandit;49905781]Maybe if the legal immigration process wasn't so expensive, more people would use it.[/QUOTE]
If you ask me, it's a pretty bad precedent for someone to break the country's immigration laws and expect them to suddenly start respecting the system once they're forgiven and made into a legal citizen.
It's tough to get a paying job in this country to support a family. Does that justify stealing?
I'm all for making the immigration system a bit easier. But illegal immigration shouldn't be endorsed. It's not fair to the people who live here, and it's certainly not fair to those who actually took the time to go through the system legally.
This is totally fair for Mexico's 18 year wait list to enter the country
Threads discussing illegal immigration in USA vs. threads discussing illegal immigration in Europe are so different its stunning
I am glad that we offer a legal pathway to citizenship for these undocumented immigrants.
I get why illegal immigrants and general migration laws exist and all but I think it's so uncompassionate. The idea of having a bunch of soil that you're not allowed on but we are at a country level or you're not allowed rights like healthcare on but we are, even if you're willing to contribute your part and pay taxes and abide by the laws.
Donald Trump wanting to bar Muslims and Mexicans because he thinks they're different somehow, guess what, they're not, they're people just like you and I, people who for the most part want a better life and are willing to work for that better life.
The human race fucking sucks man.
I'm glad Clinton and Sanders are saying this.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;49905878]If you ask me, it's a pretty bad precedent for someone to break the country's immigration laws and expect them to suddenly start respecting the system once they're forgiven and made into a legal citizen.
It's tough to get a paying job in this country to support a family. Does that justify stealing?
I'm all for making the immigration system a bit easier. But illegal immigration shouldn't be endorsed. It's not fair to the people who live here, and it's certainly not fair to those who actually took the time to go through the system legally.[/QUOTE]
I don't have ANY ill will towards illegal immigrants. If I were in their situation, I would do the [B]exact [/B]same thing to protect and support my family. I don't think of illegal immigration as the same thing as robbery or carjacking or drug dealing; the vast majority of illegal immigrants are hard working people who only want what's best for their families and will do whatever it takes to support them. They're not criminals, and they don't justify a pattern of crime or antisocial behavior based on their status as illegal immigrants. I think that more Americans ought to be like these people, and these people ought to be Americans.
[editline]10th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;49905913]Threads discussing illegal immigration in USA vs. threads discussing illegal immigration in Europe are so different its sickening.
I am glad that America offers a legal pathway to citizenship for these undocumented immigrants.[/QUOTE]
What differences do you mean?
I've been meaning to ask: you work for the DEA, but do you work for the Bahrainian DEA? Or is that just where your account was registered?
[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;49905848]I wish people should stop using the term "illegals." It's dehumanizing. There are other, valid terms that can be used, such as illegal immigrants, or undocumented immigrants.[/QUOTE]
Can we also stop calling police officers cops then? It's just a shortening, no need to go PC on this.
[QUOTE=Tudd;49906075]Can we also stop calling police officers cops then? It's just a shortening, no need to go PC on this.[/QUOTE]
That's not a very good comparison. I wouldn't say "illegal immigrant" is an occupation.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;49905668]I think we should deport criminal illegal immigrants, but all the hardworking people should be given some sort of path to citizenship. However, if we make it too lenient, it's unfair to the legal immigrants who spent years and thousands of dollars trying to immigrate to the US.[/QUOTE]
Don't you think that's a bit counterproductive? The US immigration system is recognized as being incredibly slow, inefficient, and difficult, yeah, but saying we shouldn't change it because it would be unfair to those who actually suffered through it before seems like backwards reasoning. Doesn't it make more sense to fix it so that more people don't have to? That's like saying we shouldn't improve our lackluster education system because it's unfair to the students who already graduated from it, or that we shouldn't reexamine our drug policies because it's unfair to the people who were already wrongfully given lengthy sentences for nonviolent offenses.
There needs to be an efficient and generally available path to citizenship for those who wish to follow it, and I think that most people who have had firsthand experience with how broken our current system is would do nothing but cheer to see that changed. I've been a "victim" of our horribly broken healthcare system, for example, and I can tell you that I'd be [I]celebrating[/I] if it were fixed, not griping about how I think it's unfair that other people are no longer going to have their lives turned upside down by it like I did.
[QUOTE=New Cidem;49906104]That's not a very good comparison. I wouldn't say "illegal immigrant" is an occupation.[/QUOTE]
Both are choices the individual has made, both CAN be used to dehumanize the individual. It is a completely valid comparison.
[quote]Sanders hit Clinton for her comments[/quote]
Wow, the pressure of these primaries is really bringing out Sanders' latent misogyny. I'm appalled.
[QUOTE=Firetornado;49905709]Just give them a path to citizenship and a chance to become legal, don't give them all a free pass lol this is dumb. Real legal immigrants will stop using the system.[/QUOTE]
nobody is arguing for a free pass....
contrary to what the limbaughs of the world would have you believe, obama never wanted blanket citizenship, nor does any democrat
[QUOTE=Firetornado;49905709]Just give them a path to citizenship and a chance to become legal, don't give them all a free pass lol this is dumb. Real legal immigrants will stop using the system.[/QUOTE]
What's dumb? I think both dems support pathways to citizenship
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;49905797]Honestly there's merit to that.
They're in the country and utilizing its infrastructure, they should pay for it like everyone else using the infrastructure.[/QUOTE]
And a lot of them already do, but without reaping the benefits
[QUOTE=Sableye;49906224]nobody is arguing for a free pass....
contrary to what the limbaughs of the world would have you believe, obama never wanted blanket citizenship, nor does any democrat[/QUOTE]
This, basically. I'm sure there are some folks out there calling for a 100% open immigration policy, but the large majority of even fairly far left folks just want to see reforms to make the path to citizenship more efficient and available.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49906168]Don't you think that's a bit counterproductive? The US immigration system is recognized as being incredibly slow, inefficient, and difficult, yeah, but saying we shouldn't change it because it would be unfair to those who actually suffered through it before seems like backwards reasoning. Doesn't it make more sense to fix it so that more people don't have to? That's like saying we shouldn't improve our lackluster education system because it's unfair to the students who already graduated from it, or that we shouldn't reexamine our drug policies because it's unfair to the people who were already wrongfully given lengthy sentences for nonviolent offenses.
There needs to be an efficient and generally available path to citizenship for those who wish to follow it, and I think that most people who have had firsthand experience with how broken our current system is would do nothing but cheer to see that changed. I've been a "victim" of our horribly broken healthcare system, for example, and I can tell you that I'd be [I]celebrating[/I] if it were fixed, not griping about how I think it's unfair that other people are no longer going to have their lives turned upside down by it like I did.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying we shouldn't change it, but I think that illegal immigrants should have to follow the same channels as legal immigrants. When we talk about a path to citizenship, it shouldn't mean preferential treatment for illegal immigrants but at the very least an equal opportunity. They should have to pay the same fees, and be subject to the same screening process (though I think that having spent years in the US as an illegal immigrant, working a job to sustain one's family and having a clean record should give one an advantage over immigrants without any history in the United States). I'm just saying that we shouldn't treat illegal immigrants like criminals, but we shouldn't give them preferential treatment either
[QUOTE=proboardslol;49905668][B]I think we should deport criminal illegal immigrants[/B], but all the hardworking people should be given some sort of path to citizenship. However, if we make it too lenient, it's unfair to the legal immigrants who spent years and thousands of dollars trying to immigrate to the US.[/QUOTE]
Coming in illegal makes you a criminal.
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