Snowden leaks: US taking all necessary steps - FBI Chief
45 replies, posted
[QUOTE]The head of the FBI says the US is taking "all necessary steps" to hold Edward Snowden responsible for exposing secret surveillance programmes.
Robert Mueller confirmed to the House Judiciary Committee that a criminal investigation had been launched.
Mr Snowden, 29, has admitted leaking information about National Security Agency (NSA) programmes that seize data from US internet and telephone firms.
NSA head Keith Alexander is due to give senators a classified briefing later.
In a Senate Intelligence Committee briefing to which all senators were invited, he was expected to describe how the surveillance helped foil "dozens of terrorist events" both in the US and overseas.
On Wednesday, Gen Alexander defended the exposed programmes to the Senate Intelligence Committee, saying the US was less safe as a result of Mr Snowden's actions.
Mr Snowden, who has pledged to fight any attempt to extradite him to the US, fled his home in Hawaii for Hong Kong shortly before reports of the top secret programmes were published by the Guardian and Washington Post newspapers last week.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22884566[/url]
I can't believe how little power the people got in a so called free democracy. It's obvious the vast majority treats him as a hero, yet the few who are elected by said people just want to fuck his life over and will do so, regardless of the public opinion.
USA is mad that China is hacking and spying, ends up spying on everyone this entire time, including other countries. If I were Hong Kong, I would be pissed and tell them to fuck off.
[QUOTE=Medevilae;41022759]24% "vast majority"
[editline]13th June 2013[/editline]
a minority, and not a "vocal minority" at that[/QUOTE]
The CBS poll was bollocks. Poll was phrased in an intentionally misleading way. 25% disapproved of the government listening in on "[B]suspected terrorists[/B]"
Other polls put the numbers at about 50/50. And, as a bonus, the majority of those released demographic information and broke it down by political party as well as releasing the exact phrasing used in asking questions.
If you're asked "do you approve of the government listening to suspected terrorist's phone calls?" you might have a slightly different response than if you're asked "do you approve of the government collecting phone data on millions of Americans?"
[QUOTE=Medevilae;41022846]Reuters poll
[editline]13th June 2013[/editline]
and it was whether they view him as a "traitor" or "patriot" or "don't know", like bubba was referring to, not a poll like "do you want the gov't listening in on your phone calls" you seem to be referring to
[editline]13th June 2013[/editline]
i.e. what you're saying is irrelevant[/QUOTE]
Oh, you're talking about this Reuters poll?
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/12/us-usa-security-poll-idUSBRE95B1AF20130612[/url]
Where 31% say they see Snowden as a patriot, 23% see him as a traitor and 46% don't have a clue?
EDIT: I'm not actually sure who you're saying what you're saying to.
[QUOTE=Medevilae;41022941]Yes, my quoting was wrong but my point still stands?[/QUOTE]
Does it? The Reuters poll doesn't agree with what you're saying.
I don't think we can consider indecisive answers as hostiles.
But yeah, vast majority was an exageration on my part sorry. My point still stands tho, the people don't have any power over what's going on up there.
[QUOTE=Medevilae;41023020]He's suggesting a vast majority views him as a hero while Reuters poll suggests otherwise indecisive/hostile public hence post[/QUOTE]
The Reuters poll shows indecisive majority (46%), with the second largest margin (31%) viewing him as a hero. Only 23% see Snowden as a traitor.
Calling the public "hostile" is categorically untrue, as the majority is most likely either understanding of the full implications of the story, or still waiting for further details on the story to decide.
If this NSA thing is so okay, and we were all supposed to know it already.
Then why is it so bad that he leaked this?
[QUOTE=Medevilae;41023020]He's suggesting a vast majority views him as a hero while Reuters poll suggests otherwise indecisive/hostile public hence post[/QUOTE]
a vast majority of people who have an opinion on the matter have a strong positive opinion of snowden.
[QUOTE=Medevilae;41023232]But the vast majority of people [I]not[/I] holding an opinion is kind of what answers to bubba's "so called democracy" that isn't welcoming back Snowden with open arms[/QUOTE]
tbh it doesn't matter if the vast majority thought he was the messiah, our government would still hunt him down.
unless people go out into the streets and start breaking shit, the government has free reign to do what they want.
I saw this circulating around on Facebook, and feel it rather related...
[img]http://i.imgur.com/MdxK4Vj.jpg[/img]
Man if Snowden's actions are as crazy dangerous as they keep telling us, I guess PRISM doesn't work as well as they thought it did considering he managed to get away with it (so far).
[QUOTE=yawmwen;41023205]a vast majority of people who have an opinion on the matter have a strong positive opinion of snowden.[/QUOTE]
31% think he's a hero and 23% think he's a traitor. That is to say that of the people who have a strong opinion, only 57% think he's a hero.
Is 57% your idea of a 'vast majority'?
[editline]14th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=I Know Karate;41027492]Man if Snowden's actions are as crazy dangerous as they keep telling us, I guess PRISM doesn't work as well as they thought it did considering he managed to get away with it (so far).[/QUOTE]
You really have no idea what PRISM is or how it works, do you?
I honestly don't even see the big deal over this. This was pretty common knowledge that the government could, and probably was tapping peoples phones, and I could give less of a shit about the actual phone tapping itself. The only problem is how much of a deal people are making about Edward Snowden.
[QUOTE=catbarf;41027728]31% think he's a hero and 23% think he's a traitor. That is to say that of the people who have a strong opinion, only 57% think he's a hero.
Is 57% your idea of a 'vast majority'?
[editline]14th June 2013[/editline]
You really have no idea what PRISM is or how it works, do you?[/QUOTE]
In America, whoever has a slightly higher number of 50 is the majority.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;41027764]In America, whoever has a slightly higher number of 50 is the majority.[/QUOTE]
Did you read what I was replying to? The statement that 'a vast majority of people who have an opinion on the matter have a strong positive opinion of snowden' is factually incorrect. Not only do they comprise a minority of the people polled, but they're almost on par with the number who think exactly the opposite.
[QUOTE=catbarf;41028244]Did you read what I was replying to? The statement that 'a vast majority of people who have an opinion on the matter have a strong positive opinion of snowden' is factually incorrect. Not only do they comprise a minority of the people polled, but they're almost on par with the number who think exactly the opposite.[/QUOTE]
um actually it's correct.
57% is a vast majority of people. that's a 14% difference right there.
what constitutes a vast majority for you?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;41028279]um actually it's correct.
57% is a vast majority of people. that's a 14% difference right there.
what constitutes a vast majority for you?[/QUOTE]
At least a 2:1? At the very least?
57/43% is almost an even split. I mean seriously if the president's approval rating was 57% would you really be saying a vast majority of Americans support the president?
Edit: And even setting aside quibbling over what a 'vast' majority is, you're still factually wrong because a [i]minority[/i] of Americans call him a hero. Too many are ambivalent, neutral, or just don't care.
[QUOTE=catbarf;41028336]At least a 2:1? At the very least?
57/43% is almost an even split. I mean seriously if the president's approval rating was 57% would you really be saying a vast majority of Americans support the president?[/QUOTE]
14% difference is not an even split.
[QUOTE=Keys;41025351]I saw this circulating around on Facebook, and feel it rather related...
[img]http://i.imgur.com/MdxK4Vj.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Nice quote. Too bad he never said that.
It's not stupid for the government to try and stop him, he is opposing them, they aren't going to celebrate him as a hero. It sucks? Yeah it does, but the US government is doing what any other government would do.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;41028504]It's not stupid for the government to try and stop him, he is opposing them, they aren't going to celebrate him as a hero. It sucks? Yeah it does, but the US government is doing what any other government would do.[/QUOTE]
He is a dissident, and the government is going to lock him up as a example.
[QUOTE=laserguided;41028555]He is a dissident, and the government is going to lock him up as a example.[/QUOTE]
No shit, he leaked government information and ran off, I don't know of any government that wouldn't want to nab him.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;41028504]It's not stupid for the government to try and stop him, he is opposing them, they aren't going to celebrate him as a hero. It sucks? Yeah it does, but the US government is doing what any other government would do.[/QUOTE]
nah it is stupid. just because it's the law doesn't mean it isn't stupid. they should reevaluate their policies and pardon him for the leak.
[QUOTE=bubbagamer;41022752]I can't believe how little power the people got in a so called free democracy. It's obvious the vast majority treats him as a hero, yet the few who are elected by said people just want to fuck his life over and will do so, regardless of the public opinion.[/QUOTE]
Yet the few at the top have the big picture to look at
[QUOTE=bubbagamer;41022752]I can't believe how little power the people got in a so called free democracy. It's obvious the vast majority treats him as a hero, yet the few who are elected by said people just want to fuck his life over and will do so, regardless of the public opinion.[/QUOTE]
Welcome to the republic, where the points are made up and the rules don't matter to whoever has the power or money.
Sadly we're not a democracy we're a republic, meaning we vote people into office and they make all our choices for us.
Did he do something illegal in leaking classified government information? Yes.
Was the Government in the wrong to be doing that shit in the first place? Yes.
You could probably go back to the US's prison system on this one where we don't try to rehabilitate we just lock up all the people we don't want running around society and expect them to change on their own.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;41028279]um actually it's correct.
57% is a vast majority of people. that's a 14% difference right there.
what constitutes a vast majority for you?[/QUOTE]
31% think he's a patriot, 23% think he's a traitor, and 46% either don't care, or can't decide. The 'vast majority' of people are indifferent on the issue.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41028655]nah it is stupid. just because it's the law doesn't mean it isn't stupid. they should reevaluate their policies and pardon him for the leak.[/QUOTE]
it's a stupid reason, but it's justifiable if you're the government - if you let a few whistleblowers get off scot free, what's to stop the next guy from spilling the beans?
[QUOTE=Protocol7;41029105]it's a stupid reason, but it's justifiable if you're the government - if you let a few whistleblowers get off scot free, what's to stop the next guy from spilling the beans?[/QUOTE]
maybe by judging whistleblowing cases on an individual basis rather than dealing with extremely complex cases with one all-catching law?
[editline]14th June 2013[/editline]
i think everyone that isn't a complete moron recognizes there's a big difference between snowden's NSA leaks and someone giving away launch codes or some shit to china so why would you treat them the same
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