Should unschooling be illegal? - General

I made this debate to see if you all should think unschooling should be legal or illegal, unschooling is what its title says. It is the opposite of schooling and involves parents not teaching their children anything through learning but natural ways. As quoted from a Wiki article [I]" Unschoolers learn through their natural life experiences including play, game play, household responsibilities, personal interests and curiosity, internships and work experience, travel, books, elective classes, family, mentors, and social interaction. Unschooling encourages exploration of activities initiated by the children themselves, believing that the more personal learning is, the more meaningful, well-understood and therefore useful it is to the child"[/I]. The law states it is required for a child to get education (through homeschooling or regular schooling) I was watching wife swap where a strict mom swapped with a mother who unschooled her children. Her children learn how to read through Facebook.Even a 11 year old can't even read the word 'only' or 'cycle. They have their dog lick their dishes clean instead of properly washing them their selves. The oldest child (12-13) gets a nose pierce. The parents also allow their children to stay up all night along even to 5 am in the morning, it was terrible to watch. The husband is no better. When the strict mom gives them a bedtime, once she leaves to a hotel. The husband wakes everyone up and they stay up anyway. The strict mom though was a control freak but yet I couldn't stand watching it. Do you think unschooling should be illegal?

Of course it should be, it's borderline child abuse. Homeschooling and unschooling deprive kids of communication with other kids, and parents can't possibly give kids as much knowledge as competent teachers can

[QUOTE=TheKritter71;41329269]I made this debate to see if you all should think unschooling should be legal or illegal, unschooling is what its title says. It is the opposite of schooling and involves parents not teaching their children anything through learning but natural ways. As quoted from a Wiki article [I]" Unschoolers learn through their natural life experiences including play, game play, household responsibilities, personal interests and curiosity, internships and work experience, travel, books, elective classes, family, mentors, and social interaction. Unschooling encourages exploration of activities initiated by the children themselves, believing that the more personal learning is, the more meaningful, well-understood and therefore useful it is to the child"[/I]. The law states it is required for a child to get education (through homeschooling or regular schooling) I was watching wife swap where a strict mom swapped with a mother who unschooled her children. Her children learn how to read through Facebook.Even a 11 year old can't even read the word 'only' or 'cycle. They have their dog lick their dishes clean instead of properly washing them their selves. The oldest child (12-13) gets a nose pierce. The parents also allow their children to stay up all night along even to 5 am in the morning, it was terrible to watch. The husband is no better. When the strict mom gives them a bedtime, once she leaves to a hotel. The husband wakes everyone up and they stay up anyway. The strict mom though was a control freak but yet I couldn't stand watching it. Do you think unschooling should be illegal?[/QUOTE] I think what you saw was a pretty bad example of what this is supposed to be, I mean it is wife-swap so they're going to find the extremes for entertainment value. It would probably work if the parents actively taught their children, encouraged, and even sometimes forced them into situations where they'd learn something. Hell, I learned the English language from playing Team Fortress Classic and eventually stalking FP back when smartness was still in full swing. [QUOTE=Laserbeams;41329515]Of course it should be, it's borderline child abuse. Homeschooling and unschooling deprive kids of communication with other kids, and parents can't possibly give kids as much knowledge as competent teachers can[/QUOTE] Homeschooling doesn't automatically make a child a social pariah, and its short-minded to think that teachers always know more than the parent, and always know whats best. I mean, with the advent of video games and the PC this is alot easier, but you can get around it by simply restricting the time the child has with that experience, and try to get them at a young age to go outside and enjoy life, making friends outside of school with people in the neighborhood or something.

While formal schooling is obviously more effective, it's not really the government's place to intercede, so long as there isn't any abuse occurring. If you consider this "abuse", then would you also consider having a child to to a below average school abuse? Would you force all parents who want to home school their children to be certified, in order to prevent sub par educations? [editline]5th July 2013[/editline] In extreme cases, it's most assuredly not a good thing, but making it illegal is too far.

[QUOTE=TheKritter71;41329269]I made this debate to see if you all should think unschooling should be legal or illegal, unschooling is what its title says. It is the opposite of schooling and involves parents not teaching their children anything through learning but natural ways. As quoted from a Wiki article [I]" Unschoolers learn through their natural life experiences including play, game play, household responsibilities, personal interests and curiosity, internships and work experience, travel, books, elective classes, family, mentors, and social interaction. Unschooling encourages exploration of activities initiated by the children themselves, believing that the more personal learning is, the more meaningful, well-understood and therefore useful it is to the child"[/I]. The law states it is required for a child to get education (through homeschooling or regular schooling) I was watching wife swap where a strict mom swapped with a mother who unschooled her children. Her children learn how to read through Facebook.Even a 11 year old can't even read the word 'only' or 'cycle. They have their dog lick their dishes clean instead of properly washing them their selves. The oldest child (12-13) gets a nose pierce. The parents also allow their children to stay up all night along even to 5 am in the morning, it was terrible to watch. The husband is no better. When the strict mom gives them a bedtime, once she leaves to a hotel. The husband wakes everyone up and they stay up anyway. The strict mom though was a control freak but yet I couldn't stand watching it. Do you think unschooling should be illegal?[/QUOTE] No, it shouldn't be [i]illegal[/i]. There are many factors that go in to the success of an 'unschooled' child. Natural Intelligence is one of the big factors, but an even bigger one is the amount of stimulation a parent puts into a child. It also depends on what type of child is meant to be produced. If you want a child that thinks strictly along the guidelines of what is taught inside the school-box, then by all means. However History has shown that formal education is by no means an be-all end-all to deciding the fate of a person. Prominent figures such as Einstein, Col. Sanders, Abraham Lincoln, Samuel Clemens, Charles Dickens, Frank Sinatra, Elton John, the list goes literally on and on. Ultimately there is a severe lacking quality to our schools. They may be very apt at producing cookie-cutter intellectuals, but independent thought and dissidence is severely squashed. If there is one thing I live my life by it is: Do what you love, and love what you do. I am happy. There are many people stuck in jobs for the sake of it. They are miserable, and horribly disinterested. Society would be fundamentally a better place if children were nurtured to each of their individual potential. Schooling today is like getting a monkey, a bear, and a chicken and giving them all a standardized test of climbing a tree. Relevant; [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U[/media]

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;41329515]Of course it should be, it's borderline child abuse. Homeschooling and unschooling deprive kids of communication with other kids, and parents can't possibly give kids as much knowledge as competent teachers can[/QUOTE] Unschooling is horrible, but me and several of my friends were homeschooled for many years and I wouldn't say it has deprived us of anything. Hell, I know a pair of twins that are 15 years old now that are still homeschooled and are pretty cool. [editline]5th July 2013[/editline] Homeschooling has an actual education system behind it, it's not just the parents.

[QUOTE=TheKritter71;41329269]I made this debate to see if you all should think unschooling should be legal or illegal, unschooling is what its title says. It is the opposite of schooling and involves parents not teaching their children anything through learning but natural ways. As quoted from a Wiki article [I]" Unschoolers learn through their natural life experiences including play, game play, household responsibilities, personal interests and curiosity, internships and work experience, travel, books, elective classes, family, mentors, and social interaction. Unschooling encourages exploration of activities initiated by the children themselves, believing that the more personal learning is, the more meaningful, well-understood and therefore useful it is to the child"[/I]. The law states it is required for a child to get education (through homeschooling or regular schooling) I was watching wife swap where a strict mom swapped with a mother who unschooled her children. Her children learn how to read through Facebook.Even a 11 year old can't even read the word 'only' or 'cycle. They have their dog lick their dishes clean instead of properly washing them their selves. The oldest child (12-13) gets a nose pierce. The parents also allow their children to stay up all night along even to 5 am in the morning, it was terrible to watch. The husband is no better. When the strict mom gives them a bedtime, once she leaves to a hotel. The husband wakes everyone up and they stay up anyway. The strict mom though was a control freak but yet I couldn't stand watching it. Do you think unschooling should be illegal?[/QUOTE] I just want to say as someone who was semi unchooled (Mom still taught me things but in a not school like way) that that is a horrible example of unschooling and just shows that those parents are bad, what does having a dog lick a plate clean have do with school that's common sense, something parents have to teach their kids ANYWAY, cause schools don't have common sense classes. Unschooling does not equal not learning, it getting kids to WANT TO LEARN THE THINGS instead of force feeding them information deemed "required", which depending on the person would ruin them; I know people who went to school and being forced to read books in english classes have made them HATE READING.

It's all up to how good the parents are really. It would be nice to just ban idiots like the ones mentioned in the op from unschooling but that would cause all kinds of backlash and really would be difficult to manage. I think the best option would be to force children to attend at least 2-3 years of school so they get the basics down, and at least gives them some kind of direction so they become curious.

I know two people that grew up unschooling. They both own successful independent businesses and make way more money than I do. Looks like you saw a bad example on a reality show.

I think it's already illegal in the US, unless you have a valid reason, such as religion. I got into an argument with my parents one time over going to school, and they said that they could get a fine or even have CPS come down and take me away from them if i don't go. I'm not certain about that though, i do know that it isn't legal for someone to skip classes though, had a friend have a short stay in a juvenile detention center because he skipped 3 weeks of school.

[QUOTE=zombini;41330803][B]I think it's already illegal in the US,[/B] unless you have a valid reason, such as religion. I got into an argument with my parents one time over going to school, and they said that they could get a fine or even have CPS come down and take me away from them if i don't go. I'm not certain about that though, i do know that it isn't legal for someone to skip classes though, had a friend have a short stay in a juvenile detention center because he skipped 3 weeks of school.[/QUOTE] If it is that's fairly new, I was Unschooled.

[QUOTE=zombini;41330803]I think it's already illegal in the US, unless you have a valid reason, such as religion. I got into an argument with my parents one time over going to school, and they said that they could get a fine or even have CPS come down and take me away from them if i don't go. I'm not certain about that though, i do know that it isn't legal for someone to skip classes though, had a friend have a short stay in a juvenile detention center because he skipped 3 weeks of school.[/QUOTE] you can if you're using a legit homeschooling program I think, my brother did that, and finished a year ago.

I was basically "unschooled" my whole life and now I'm in college with a 4.0 GPA. You can't base it all off a reality show.

The example the OP gives doesn't really sound like it has to do with unschooling as much as bad parenting. I know of cases where children are unschooled temporarily while switching from public schools to home schooling, to help wind down from the stress and bullying.

Calling unschooling a form of being homeschooled is unfair to people who have been actually homeschooled. The trouble is, it's really hard to walk into a college and list your previous education as 'absolutely none' and still expect to get in as easy as someone who does have a high school graduate's certificate.

Never Heard of the term "Unschooling" so imma go with "Unschooled" for this next statement, I'm Swedish, and i am "Unschooled" (Well kinda, dropped out @ 2nd grade) I've spent 10000~ish hours on runescape, i was talking english when i was 6 years old. I learnt it while playing runescape. (Started at 5½~ish) I have no problems with it. I have an IQ of 143 [editline]8th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Doomish;41345729]Calling unschooling a form of being homeschooled is unfair to people who have been actually homeschooled. The trouble is, it's really hard to walk into a college and list your previous education as 'absolutely none' and still expect to get in as easy as someone who does have a high school graduate's certificate.[/QUOTE] Yes.. i have huge problems getting into any college..

"Unschooled" here. Pretty terrible, have no social life et cetera. It should be illegal. Although, I'm pretty 'educated'; I've taught myself things over the years. I'd like to get into a college or something but it's pretty hard due to the social anxiety from not socialising for most of my life.

[QUOTE=Doomish;41345729]it's really hard to walk into a college and list your previous education as 'absolutely none' and still expect to get in as easy as someone who does have a high school graduate's certificate.[/QUOTE] My brother (homeschooled) didn't seem to have this problem. He just scored really high on the SAT and got a near full-ride (scholarship) to Vassar.

KRS ONE dropped out at age 13. How many people do you know personally that are as successful?

[QUOTE=Jellyman;41354282]"Unschooled" here. Pretty terrible, have no social life et cetera. It should be illegal. Although, I'm pretty 'educated'; I've taught myself things over the years. I'd like to get into a college or something but it's pretty hard due to the social anxiety from not socialising for most of my life.[/QUOTE] It's the parents fault, not unschooling. Rather than just throwing books at your kids and then letting them fuck around on tv/computer/video games all day, you could interact with them, and take them to places where they will interact with people. And they can meet kids in their neighborhood as well, and hang out after school is done.

That depends on whether you equate unschooling to not giving them a proper education or to not giving them an official education. I think if done right a child can learn all they ever need to know without a formal, official education but that doesn't mean it's right to stick a child infront of a TV and think that's good enough. But I believe that if you feed a child's curiosity and teach them to be curios, critically thinking and make them want to seek new experiences and learn new skills they can learn much more than anyone in a normal school.

Lol, wow. This thread... First off: A parent needs a type of certification before homeschooling their child/children. Without that, they shouldn't be doing anything like that. Second off: Those parents are obviously not fit for "parenting" in my opinion. Whether they are schooled regularly, or home-schooled, it seems as if their parents are "bad" in the first place. So it really doesn't matter since this kind of thing would be happening even if they were in school. It is very ignorant to blame something like that on homeschooling alone. The parents always play a major role in a child's actions. Period. And thirdly: No. It shouldn't be banned. Homeschooling does [I]not [/I] effect your interactions with others. That's a big ball of bs. If your child wants to socialize, they will make the time to socialize. Homeschooling ends just like any other normal day of school. It doesn't last forever, obviously. You think that forcing your children to go to school will make them social? Lol at that. Just because there are other kids there doesn't mean they will say a damn thing so they can be just as anti-social as a home-schooled kid. It comes with their personality.

I don't think it should be illegal. School can help a person, but almost everything I know/use in my life I learned myself. School was fucking useless for me except teaching me how terrible human beings can behave.

[QUOTE=Cureless;41405574]I don't think it should be illegal. School can help a person, but almost everything I know/use in my life I learned myself. School was fucking useless for me except teaching me how terrible human beings can behave.[/QUOTE] Yeah. Not only that, but teachers here just sit on their arse all day and rather let the students do what they want instead of actually educating them. At least if you're homeschooling your child you can ensure your child's education rather than let their minds rot at the hands of lazy "teachers". It could go either way. Bad teachers or bad parents. Banning homeschooling is quite ridiculous, though... Seriously.

[QUOTE=zombini;41330803]I think it's already illegal in the US, unless you have a valid reason, such as religion. I got into an argument with my parents one time over going to school, and they said that they could get a fine or even have CPS come down and take me away from them if i don't go. I'm not certain about that though, i do know that it isn't legal for someone to skip classes though, had a friend have a short stay in a juvenile detention center because he skipped 3 weeks of school.[/QUOTE] The law in my state says you have to be in some form of school the state recognizes as a school. [QUOTE=Laserbeams;41329515]Of course it should be, it's borderline child abuse. Homeschooling and unschooling deprive kids of communication with other kids, and parents can't possibly give kids as much knowledge as competent teachers can[/QUOTE] Homeschooling is not child abuse. Not even close. I spent two years homeschooled and I never once felt like I was being deprived of anything. I always felt the public system was too easy anyway, when I was pulled out halfway through sixth grade I skipped straight to eighth grade work and had no trouble doing it. Went back into public for high school. Also, you can't force a kid to communicate with other kids. I actively avoided it to the best of my ability while I was in public. I never have enjoyed interacting with other people. I've always been a loner and no amount of encouragement has ever put a dent in that mindset. I don't find it enjoyable so I keep it to a bare minimum. That was the case in second grade, that's the case today, and that will be the case when I'm 84 years old. Not everyone is a social butterfly. Trying to force everyone to be one just causes resentment and frustration on all parties involved. It certainly was the case with me. I told them flat out I didn't enjoy social contact, that I preferred to be left alone. They ignored that and pushed me towards it anyway. I, of course, pushed back, as I didn't enjoy it. So they pushed harder. The more they encouraged it the more I didn't want to participate. They wouldn't leave me alone and let me be who I was and that made me resent everything they were and stood for, which in turn frustrated them, which in turn made them force it even harder, which in turn made me resent them even more and frustrated me as well. Even today I much prefer solitude. I find it easier, muuuuch more enjoyable and faar more rewarding to communicate with a V8 than I ever have a human being and that is never going to change. [QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;41330412]I know people who went to school and being forced to read books in english classes have made them HATE READING.[/QUOTE] Yuuuuup. That's me. I already didn't enjoy it going in. I thought it boring pretty much from day 1. But after my high school English classes forced a bunch of antiquated, shitty books that barely even apply to modern society down my throat and then asked me to draw lofty, bizarroworld logic induced conclusions and inferences from it, I never want to touch another novel in my life.

My idea of a perfect educational system makes optative SCHOOLARIZATION, but no EDUCATION. Like, if they get correctly educated at home, then at the end of the year (or peoriodically) they present to a final exam then it would be valid as well.

*ahem* I was unschooled, and now I'm an engineering student.

Unschooling is the dumbest thing I've heard in my life. Yes it should be illegal.

unschooling don't sound like a valid form of education, it sounds like to me parents not wanting to teach their kids. You bet I would make it illegal in a heart beat. [QUOTE=joshjet;41329560]While formal schooling is obviously more effective, it's not really the government's place to intercede[/QUOTE] If the Gov didn't set the lines for required education then I would imagine that ye old merica would be a more shitty place due to the high amounts of uneducated people.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;41329515]Of course it should be, it's borderline child abuse. Homeschooling and unschooling deprive kids of communication with other kids, and parents can't possibly give kids as much knowledge as competent teachers can[/QUOTE] Basically this. You can't expect to get a decent job in the real world or even really function like a "normal" person with no proper education at all, teachers and school exist for a reason. You may get an internship or work experience but in these situations it sounds like you'd definitely have to know someone in the business already, and be pretty damn lucky. However if they were in like, an Amish community or something where "the real world" would never be their problem, I probably wouldn't care.