Trump and Clintons along with hundreds of thousands of other companies linked to Deleware tax haven
66 replies, posted
[QUOTE]The receptionist at 1209 North Orange Street isn’t surprised that a journalist has turned up unannounced on a sunny weekday afternoon.
“You know I can’t speak to you,” she says. A yellow post-it note on her computer screen reads “MEDIA: Chuck Miller” with the phone number of the company’s director of corporate communications. Miller can’t answer many questions either, except to say that the company does not advise clients on their tax affairs.
The Guardian is not the first media organisation to turn up at the offices of Corporation Trust Centre, and it’s unlikely to be the last.
Analysis Forget Panama: it's easier to hide your money in the US than almost anywhere
Read more
This squat, yellow brick office building just north of Wilmington’s rundown downtown is the registered address of more than 285,000 companies. That’s more than any other known address in the world, and 15 times more than the 18,000 registered in Ugland House, a five-storey building in the Cayman Islands that President Obama called “either the biggest building in the world, or the biggest tax scam on record”.
Officially, 1209 North Orange is home to Apple, American Airlines, Coca-Cola, Walmart and dozens of other companies in the Fortune 500 list of America’s biggest companies. Being registered in Delaware lets companies take advantage of strict corporate secrecy rules, business-friendly courts and the “Delaware loophole”, which can allow companies to legally shift earnings from other states to Delaware, where they are not taxed on non-physical incomes generated outside of the state.
The loophole is said to have cost other states more than $9bn in lost taxes over the past decade and led to Delaware to be described as “one of the world’s biggest havens for tax avoidance and evasion”.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/25/delaware-tax-loophole-1209-north-orange-trump-clinton[/url]
It's not a secret that Delaware is the corporate capital of the US, it's not surprising corporate people like Trump and Hillary have some sort of tie to it, either.
If you can use it and it's not illegal... Then why not?
Like the only way these kinds of things can be prevented is if America does like what we do in Australia, where each state harmonises their corporations laws with each other. But as if that would happen in the US. Deleware certainly wouldn't like that proposal.
[editline]26th April 2016[/editline]
We actually talked about Deleware in my company law course at university a few weeks ago
I thought this was common knowledge? Every rich person/company incorporates in delaware. Lots of millionaires list their permanent address in Florida as well, and are very careful to avoid the IRS finding them actually living in NY
Deleware/Nevada/Wyoming.
All 3 have major benefits when incorporating.
[editline]25th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=proboardslol;50198839]Lots of millionaires list their permanent address in Florida as well, and are very careful to avoid the IRS finding them actually living in NY[/QUOTE]
Because Florida is cheap on taxes, a nice place to live, and most importantly has some of the strongest homestead laws in the nation. Even if you aren't perfectly shielded by an LLC/corp, Florida lets you keep your house through bankruptcy.
[QUOTE=sb27;50198830]If you can use it and it's not illegal... Then why not?
Like the only way these kinds of things can be prevented is if America does like what we do in Australia, where each state harmonises their corporations laws with each other. But as if that would happen in the US. Deleware certainly wouldn't like that proposal.
[editline]26th April 2016[/editline]
We actually talked about Deleware in my company law course at university a few weeks ago[/QUOTE]
The law making something legal isn't the same thing as it being moral. In Trump's case he spouts rhetoric about keeping jobs in America and criticises companies not supporting American jobs, but exhibits hypocrisy by evading US taxation, putting more burden on poor Americans to support the country's infrastructure despite him already being a billionaire.
If our government is any indication of what'll happen this will completely blow over and nobody will care.
[QUOTE=bitches;50198888]The law making something legal isn't the same thing as it being moral. In Trump's case he spouts rhetoric about keeping jobs in America and criticises companies not supporting American jobs, but exhibits hypocrisy by evading US taxation, putting more burden on poor Americans to support the country's infrastructure despite him already being a billionaire.[/QUOTE]
Only an idiot would work his ass off just to pay boatloads of income tax then give the rest away to the poor, if you expect billionaires to just donate their fortunes I think you're not being realistic. Running for president as a billionaire could give you a chance at enacting real permanent change though.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;50199155]Only an idiot would work his ass off just to pay boatloads of income tax then give the rest away to the poor, if you expect billionaires to just donate their fortunes I think you're not being realistic. Running for president as a billionaire could give you a chance at enacting real permanent change though.[/QUOTE]
There used to be this thing called civic duty, whereby you PAID taxes at the rate you were supposed to, and didn't consider it a donation to the poor
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;50199155]Only an idiot would work his ass off just to pay boatloads of income tax then give the rest away to the poor, if you expect billionaires to just donate their fortunes I think you're not being realistic. Running for president as a billionaire could give you a chance at enacting real permanent change though.[/QUOTE]
Let us all put our money in tax havens then. Nothing wrong with that!
[QUOTE=Selek;50199167]Let us all put our money in tax havens then. Nothing wrong with that![/QUOTE]
Then why is everyone blaming the people and not the state for making it legal to attract business?
Half of the companies in Canada are incorporated in Delaware. Whoopty doo.
Perhaps it's time for a crackdown on tax havens globally... on opposite day.
[QUOTE=sb27;50198830]If you can use it and it's not illegal... Then why not?[/QUOTE]
Conflict of interest: it's a job of the government to cut down on this shit and make people and their companies pay taxes. If these people are profiting off this then do you think they'll fight it?
[QUOTE=plunger435;50199185]Then why is everyone blaming the people and not the state for making it legal to attract business?[/QUOTE]
they aren't attacting business though, they're a honeypot and once the money is there, it doesn't pay almost any taxes
these havens aren't creating jobs, they aren't improving roads, hell they aren't even building buildings, they're just PO boxes which bank accounts have been registered to in order to lower their tax duty
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;50199155]Only an idiot would work his ass off just to pay boatloads of income tax then give the rest away to the poor, if you expect billionaires to just donate their fortunes I think you're not being realistic. Running for president as a billionaire could give you a chance at enacting real permanent change though.[/QUOTE]
Working your ass off as a poor guy is probably worse, you know.
[QUOTE=Sableye;50199279]they aren't attacting business though, they're a honeypot and once the money is there, it doesn't pay almost any taxes[/QUOTE]
They attract all kinds of business, it's not like Delaware is doing it just to be nice, they get money out of it too.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;50199155]Only an idiot would work his ass off just to pay boatloads of income tax then give the rest away to the poor, if you expect billionaires to just donate their fortunes I think you're not being realistic. Running for president as a billionaire could give you a chance at enacting real permanent change though.[/QUOTE]
Because part of living in the good ol' US of A (at least what it should be) is paying your dues as a citizen and being able to live there comes at a price. That price is taxes, regardless of your income.
[QUOTE=Sableye;50199163]There used to be this thing called civic duty, whereby you PAID taxes at the rate you were supposed to, and didn't consider it a donation to the poor[/QUOTE]
You think billionaires are the only ones who do this? Every american would do this if the cost to do so justified it. Plenty of individuals cheat on their taxes, go to tax professionals to try to maximize their refund/minimize their debt. You don't get to be a billionaire by making poor financial decisions, which include spending money needlessly where you could have cut costs.
The criticism should be towards the government which allows these tax havens to exist, but you can't criticize an individual for taking a perfectly legal avenue to save money. I don't think any of us here could honestly say that we wouldn't do the same
[QUOTE=plunger435;50199285]They attract all kinds of business, it's not like Delaware is doing it just to be nice, they get money out of it too.[/QUOTE]
28,000 businesses registered to one building is not making jobs or doing anything to improve the local community, sure they do get money from this, but i'd imagine the people living there would rather have an employer there instead of a bunch of PO boxes that spit money come april
[QUOTE=Sableye;50199438]28,000 businesses registered to one building is not making jobs or doing anything to improve the local community, sure they do get money from this, but i'd imagine the people living there would rather have an employer there instead of a bunch of PO boxes that spit money come april[/QUOTE]
I never said it makes jobs, but how is it the businesses fault for choosing the obvious choice. Delaware isn't a victim here they're the ones making this possible.
man, imagine how much better our national infrastructure would be if all that money was being taxed properly, and we didnt have a bunch of "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" defending the actual millionaires. i can only imagine that maybe our schools would be better, or maybe our highways wouldnt be falling apart. maybe we'd even have national healthcare. god knows what kind of good could be done, rather than just having a giant pile of money sitting there doing [I]literally nothing[/I].
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;50199155]Only an idiot would work his ass off just to pay boatloads of income tax then give the rest away to the poor, if you expect billionaires to just donate their fortunes I think you're not being realistic. Running for president as a billionaire could give you a chance at enacting real permanent change though.[/QUOTE]
Yeah man, fuck all them poor people who make jack n shit. While we're at it lets put the majority of the TAX BURDEN on them while the rich and keep their money hidden and don't contribute to the very society they've profited off of.
It isn't giving the money to the poor, it is money that the country desperately needs to support its people (healthcare, infrastructure, education.)
[QUOTE=plunger435;50199185]Then why is everyone blaming the people and not the state for making it legal to attract business?[/QUOTE]
Because those same people lobbied the state to write favorable tax policy that screws over the poor and working class?
[QUOTE=mcharest;50199726]Because those same people lobbied the state to write favorable tax policy that screws over the poor and working class?[/QUOTE]
You're assuming the state doesn't want all the money this brings in.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50199481]I never said it makes jobs, but how is it the businesses fault for choosing the obvious choice. Delaware isn't a victim here they're the ones making this possible.[/QUOTE]
i'm sure if the people of delaware were aware that they are the headquarters for most of the fortune 500, they'd be asking why they have a budget deficit and or any unemployment (since 28,000 companies should be providing plenty of jobs)
[QUOTE=Sableye;50199805]i'm sure if the people of delaware were aware that they are the headquarters for most of the fortune 500, they'd be asking why they have a budget deficit and or any unemployment (since 28,000 companies should be providing plenty of jobs)[/QUOTE]
How is that the companies fault and not the states for purposefully setting this up.
[QUOTE=Sableye;50199805]i'm sure if the people of delaware were aware that they are the headquarters for most of the fortune 500, they'd be asking why they have a budget deficit and or any unemployment (since 28,000 companies should be providing plenty of jobs)[/QUOTE]
Apparently franchise taxes on delaware corporations supply 1/5th of their revenue
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware#Economy[/url]
Looks like that's a good thing?
[QUOTE=plunger435;50199775]You're assuming the state doesn't want all the money this brings in.[/QUOTE]
apparently they don't
[quote]Delaware charges no income tax on corporations not operating within the state, so taking advantage of Delaware's other benefits does not result in taxation.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Sableye;50199848]apparently they don't[/QUOTE]
that's income tax. Delaware charges a franchise tax
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.