'Paying Till It Hurts': Why American Health Care Is So Pricey - Polidicks

[IMG]http://media.npr.org/chrome/news/nprlogo_138x46.gif[/IMG] [QUOTE][IMG]http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/08/07/istock_000007437344xsmall-8f70d62d580e07ef2dee21dbdbf9cb41199d6b90-s3.jpg[/IMG] [I]"We need a system instead of 20, 40 components, each one having its own financial model, and each one making a profit," says New York Times correspondent Elisabeth Rosenthal.[/I][/QUOTE] [QUOTE]It costs $13,660 for an American to have a hip replacement in Belgium; in the U.S., it's closer to $100,000. Americans pay more for health care than people in many other developed countries, and Elisabeth Rosenthal is trying to find out why. The New York Times correspondent is spending a year investigating the high cost of health care. The first article in her series, "Paying Till It Hurts," examined what the high cost of colonoscopies reveals about our health care system; the second explained why the American way of birth is the costliest in the world; and the third, published this week in The Times, told the story of one man who found it cheaper to fly to Belgium and have his hip replaced there, than to have the surgery performed in the U.S. [B]...[/B][/QUOTE] [B]Read the rest of the article.[/B] [url]http://www.npr.org/2013/08/07/209585018/paying-till-it-hurts-why-american-health-care-is-so-pricey[/url]

When it gets to the point where you have to make a choice between your health and bankruptcy, you know something has to change.

That's interesting how the price could drop if the machines were standardized. I never even thought about hospital equipment before

Obamacare?

There needs to be government intervention in the pricing. It's gotten to the point where it's like "What the fuck are you going to do about it, you have no where else to turn to"

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;41765359]There needs to be government intervention in the pricing. It's gotten to the point where it's like "What the fuck are you going to do about it, you have no where else to turn to"[/QUOTE] Any government intervention will be in the benefit of the insurance companies, or the medical establishment, or whomever owns the politicians pushing for these regulations.

I still have no idea how a 4 day stay at the hospital with administered antibiotics and routine changes of bandages cost $11K without insurance. That's what it cost me 2 years ago for my bad leg wound from an accident with an ATV. It would've been cheaper to spend those same 4 nights in a 5 Star Hotel in Miami, Florida, with me taking the same antibiotics.

If you can't afford healthcare then you didn't work hard enough in school anything else is socialism

The solution is simple: Nationalize health care entirely. Do away with trying to turn a profit. Make it a single payer system.

[QUOTE=Splash Attack;41765588]The solution is simple: Nationalize health care entirely. Do away with trying to turn a profit. Make it a single payer system.[/QUOTE] "simple"

[QUOTE=Splash Attack;41765588]The solution is simple: Nationalize health care entirely. Do away with trying to turn a profit. Make it a single payer system.[/QUOTE] B-b-but that's for dirty commies! Are you a commie?

[QUOTE=Splash Attack;41765588]The solution is simple: Nationalize health care entirely. Do away with trying to turn a profit. Make it a single payer system.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Britishboy;41765712]B-b-but that's for dirty commies! Are you a commie?[/QUOTE] I know it's probably pointless to argue, but nevertheless bullshit shouldn't stand unopposed. [QUOTE]In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, one of the primary sources of health care and health insurance for the working poor in Britain, Australia, and the United States was the fraternal society. Fraternal societies (called "friendly societies" in Britain and Australia) were voluntary mutual-aid associations. Their descendants survive among us today in the form of the Shriners, Elks, Masons, and similar organizations, but these no longer play the central role in American life they formerly did. As recently as 1920, over one-quarter of all adult Americans were members of fraternal societies. (The figure was still higher in Britain and Australia.) Fraternal societies were particularly popular among blacks and immigrants. (Indeed, Teddy Roosevelt's famous attack on "hyphenated Americans" was motivated in part by hostility to the immigrants' fraternal societies; he and other Progressives sought to "Americanize" immigrants by making them dependent for support on the democratic state, rather than on their own independent ethnic communities.) The principle behind the fraternal societies was simple. A group of working-class people would form an association (or join a local branch, or "lodge," of an existing association) and pay monthly fees into the association's treasury; individual members would then be able to draw on the pooled resources in time of need. The fraternal societies thus operated as a form of self-help insurance company. Turn-of-the-century America offered a dizzying array of fraternal societies to choose from. Some catered to a particular ethnic or religious group; others did not. Many offered entertainment and social life to their members, or engaged in community service. Some "fraternal" societies were run entirely by and for women. The kinds of services from which members could choose often varied as well, though the most commonly offered were life insurance, disability insurance, and "lodge practice." "Lodge practice" refers to an arrangement, reminiscent of today's HMOs, whereby a particular society or lodge would contract with a doctor to provide medical care to its members. The doctor received a regular salary on a retainer basis, rather than charging per item; members would pay a yearly fee and then call on the doctor's services as needed. [...] Most remarkable was the low cost at which these medical services were provided. At the turn of the century, the average cost of "lodge practice" to an individual member was between one and two dollars a year. A day's wage would pay for a year's worth of medical care. By contrast, the average cost of medical service on the regular market was between one and two dollars per visit. Yet licensed physicians, particularly those who did not come from "big name" medical schools, competed vigorously for lodge contracts, perhaps because of the security they offered; and this competition continued to keep costs low. [...] In Britain, the state put an end to the "evil" of lodge practice by bringing health care under political control. Physicians' fees would now be determined by panels of trained professionals (i.e., the physicians themselves) rather than by ignorant patients. State-financed medical care edged out lodge practice; those who were being forced to pay taxes for "free" health care whether they wanted it or not had little incentive to pay extra for health care through the fraternal societies, rather than using the government care they had already paid for.[/QUOTE] Sources are at the bottom of [URL=http://www.freenation.org/a/f12l3.html]this[/URL] page. David Green's [i][URL=http://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Civil-Society-Rediscovery-Politics/dp/025536279X]Reinventing Civil Society: Rediscovery of Welfare without Politics[/URL][/I] is a fairly short and well sourced read.

[QUOTE=Splash Attack;41765588]The solution is simple: Nationalize health care entirely. Do away with trying to turn a profit. Make it a single payer system.[/QUOTE] Wow! Its like you [u]don't understand how politics works[/u] at all!

If the health care system is to be overhauled, so should the system for educating future doctors. Although it pains me to see easy it is for people to get fucked over by the health care system, it is just as disheartening to think about my own future as an aspiring physician. If I were to continue with my education into med school and residency only to face a reduced salary as a result of some health care reform that will take me the rest of my life to break even with school debt, I would be extremely down trodden. Granted, the costs accumulated by health care bureaucracy is the biggest issue, but physician pay needs to remain relatively high to offset the usually insane cost of education (in both time and money), as well as malpractice insurance.

Visit my mother today found out her employer who she works for is suing her for past medical debt (the stuff here insurance wouldn't cover which is like 10k). She works in the hospital. Anyways she said shes gonna declare bankruptcy. Shit is serious fucked up if you have to do something like that.

[QUOTE=SparkDog;41765957]If the health care system is to be overhauled, so should the system for educating future doctors. Although it pains me to see easy it is for people to get fucked over by the health care system, it is just as disheartening to think about my own future as an aspiring physician. If I were to continue with my education into med school and residency only to face a reduced salary as a result of some health care reform that will take me the rest of my life to break even with school debt, I would be extremely down trodden. Granted, the costs accumulated by health care bureaucracy is the biggest issue, but physician pay needs to remain relatively high to offset the usually insane cost of education (in both time and money), as well as malpractice insurance.[/QUOTE] That's why we can't just say "go to national healthcare america lolol". There are some very deeply entrenched issues with the whole system in general.

Healthcare in Germany works pretty damn good, 50% of our income goes to insurances before we even see it but the system kinda works, at least for healthcare.

[QUOTE=Killuah;41766134]Healthcare in Germany works pretty damn good, 50% of our income goes to insurances before we even see it but the system kinda works, at least for healthcare.[/QUOTE] 50 percent sounds like a lot of money.

He probably means the taxed income.

[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;41766215]He probably means the taxed income.[/QUOTE] I don 't get why americans complain so much about high taxes when we don't even have half the tax rate of many other developed nations.

[QUOTE=supersnail11;41766247]I don 't get why americans complain so much about high taxes when we don't even have half the tax rate of many other developed nations.[/QUOTE] Because people within America are stupid and ignorant about other countries. I see about 20 dollars taken for every 120 I make. Doesn't bother me because of low local/state inflation.

[QUOTE=Aide;41766266]Because people within America are stupid and ignorant about other countries.[/QUOTE] I know, if Americans traveled to the countries they so desperately want to turn America into they would change their views in a second :smile:

The drug/insurance/hospital/medical device companies charge the maximum the market can bear, which means they charge exactly what those services are worth. The invisible hand of the market knows best and Belgium is a godless socialist hellhole. :downs: Single payer FTW. I still can't wrap my mind around how ignorant, uninformed people got so stirred up about fictional government death panels when every day their own insurance companies make decisions that determine whether they live or die, depending on which option makes more money for the company.

Man, do I love living in the "Communist" nordic region.

[QUOTE=SparkDog;41765957]If the health care system is to be overhauled, so should the system for educating future doctors. Although it pains me to see easy it is for people to get fucked over by the health care system, it is just as disheartening to think about my own future as an aspiring physician. If I were to continue with my education into med school and residency only to face a reduced salary as a result of some health care reform that will take me the rest of my life to break even with school debt, I would be extremely down trodden. Granted, the costs accumulated by health care bureaucracy is the biggest issue, but physician pay needs to remain relatively high to offset the usually insane cost of education (in both time and money), as well as malpractice insurance.[/QUOTE] Exactly. It's not as black and white as people make it out to be. Health care costs aren't absurdly high just to screw you over. They're that high because hospitals have to pay a lot of money to operate, and the effect just snowballs. To lower healthcare costs, you first need to lower education costs. Doctors want a high salary to recuperate their expensive education. [editline]8th August 2013[/editline] And the fact that hospitals are privatized in America doesn't help. At least if I recall correctly.

[QUOTE=Killuah;41766134]Healthcare in Germany works pretty damn good, 50% of our income goes to insurances before we even see it but the system kinda works, at least for healthcare.[/QUOTE] How does it work in Germany? My dad keeps thinking Germany has a system similar to America.

Sadly this article basically points out that while insurance is a big issue in the US and why shit is so expensive, you can't get around the fact that hospitals themselves are extremely over-priced, because a while back medical companies and the corporations that own US hospitals discovered that people will basically pay anything for better health or a fix to their medical issues. You can fix insurance all you want but until you cut the throat that is the health industry monopoly (that pretty much only exists in the US) you'll still be running into problems.

I always feel bad for my blood draw patients that are cash pay.

[QUOTE=Demache;41766022]That's why we can't just say "go to national healthcare america lolol". There are some very deeply entrenched issues with the whole system in general.[/QUOTE] Not to mention with the deficit, we can't exactly afford a nationalized healthcare system.

Start with abolishing health insurance. Shit inflates the fuck out of everything. I'd like to see the doctors try and charge you 10k when they know that they're not guaranteed to get it. Heh. Force hospitals to become non-profit entities which may be administered by a doctor or group of doctors.