[quote]Dozens of Islamist Saudi Arabian clerics have called on Arab and Muslim countries to "give all moral, material, political and military" support to what they term a jihad, or holy war, against Syria's government and its Iranian and Russian backers.
Although the clerics who signed the online statement are not affiliated with the government, their strong sectarian and anti-Christian language reflects mounting anger among many Saudis over Russian and Iranian involvement in Syria's civil war.
Russia last week started air strikes against Syrian opposition targets that it describes as aimed at weakening the jihadist Islamic State group, a move Riyadh has denounced. The clerics' statement compared it to the Soviet Union's 1980 invasion of Afghanistan, which prompted an international jihad.
"The holy warriors of Syria are defending the whole Islamic nation. Trust them and support them ... because if they are defeated, God forbid, it will be the turn of one Sunni country after another," the statement said.
The 53 signatories, including prominent Islamists with a history of opposing the government, were careful not to contradict that message, for example by calling on Saudis to join the jihad, but they also did not speak out against travel for jihad.
Their letter, which used sectarian terms for both Iran and Assad's Alawite sect, a Shi'ite offshoot, also portrayed Russian involvement as part of an Orthodox Christian crusade, and attacked the West for denying the rebels anti-aircraft weapons.[/quote]
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/05/us-mideast-crisis-saudi-clerics-idUSKCN0RZ1IW20151005[/url]
[quote]Dozens of Saudi Arabian clerics and academics released a statement on Monday, calling on the world's Sunni Muslims to "hurry" to Syria, to fight jihad against the Syrian government and its Russian and Iranian allies. They also called on Sunni governments to "give all moral, material, political and military" support to the effort to defeat the Syrian leader.
Fifty-two Saudis issued the joint statement, demanding that all able-bodied Muslims from both Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, answer the call of jihad and fight alongside Sunni extremist groups in Syria against Assad's regime and the Iranian and Russian forces. Iran follows the Shiite strand of Islam and is competing for influence in the region with Sunni superpower Saudi Arabia.
"This is a real war on Sunnis, their countries and their identities," said the statement. "The holy warriors of Syria are defending the whole Islamic nation. Trust them and support them... because if they are defeated, God forbid, it will be the turn of one Sunni country after another." The statement also issued a call for Syrian rebel fighters to "unify their front" against the Syrian regime and the foreign forces[/quote]
[url]http://europe.newsweek.com/saudi-clerics-call-jihad-against-assad-russia-iran-syria-334184[/url]
Also Assad and Iran
This would be interesting, to say the least.
Saudi Arabia is America's shitiest ally, followed by Israel.
Good luck with that.
Well Russia failed against the last jihad they launched, in Afghanistan. Let's see if they learned anything.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48864331]Well Russia failed against the last jihad they launched, in Afghanistan. Let's see if they learned anything.[/QUOTE]
If there's one thing to learn in situations where Gulf monarchies declare a jihad against you, it would be "don't get in situations where Gulf monarchies declare a jihad against you".
Intervening in Syria, while almost inevitable as Russia was dragged into it to defend its ally (and not defending your allies is really bad for foreign relations) and everything that comes with it, is wrong move by definition - there's no winning here. It's a losing move. Gulf powers will just wage war against our "coalition" in Syria indirectly and we won't be able to do anything about it, just eat it up. Hell, if Saudi's planes straight up drop a couple of bombs here and there in Syria - we'll be forced to write an angry letter and leave it at that.
Oh, great. More religiously-motivated nutjobs to pour on the fire. Well done, Saudi, glad our alliance is proving fruitful.
and the plot thickens..
Jesus this title is sensationalist as all hell. They were calling a Jihad against Syria and it's allies, not necessarily Russia.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48864653]Jesus this title is sensationalist as all hell. They were calling a Jihad against Syria and it's allies, not necessarily Russia.[/QUOTE]
A mere week or so after Russia, Syria's most pro-active ally (now), joins the fight.
It begs the question whether Saudi's allies put them up to this.
Let's be honest everyone else involved in deposing ISIS prior to the Russians have done a half arsed job of it, which makes you wonder whether they actually wanted to do it in the 1st place.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48864653]Jesus this title is sensationalist as all hell. They were calling a Jihad against Syria and it's allies, not necessarily Russia.[/QUOTE]
[quote]holy war, against Syria's government and its Iranian and Russian backers.[/quote]
[quote]fight jihad against the Syrian government and its Russian and Iranian allies[/quote]
Maybe this is what will bring us together...?
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48864713]It begs the question whether Saudi's allies put them up to this.
Let's be honest everyone else involved in deposing ISIS prior to the Russians have done a half arsed job of it, which makes you wonder whether they actually wanted to do it in the 1st place.[/QUOTE]
Ohhh this again... let me explain. There's not much you can do via airstrikes. Especially against an enemy that anticipates that and is less clumsy and predictably organized than your average professional military. You pretty much have to have boots on the ground, in some form, to follow up on the airstrikes, all the while air force provides close air support to further disorganize the defence efforts.
That's why Iraq campaign is [b]relatively[/b] more successful for the coalition, there's Iraqi army, incompetent as it is. In Syria, airstrikes don't bear much fruit because the coalition won't cooperate with army on the ground, at best, with "moderate" rebels and sometimes Kurdish troops, and that's not enough, not by any margin.
And that same factor is why Russian/Iranian campaign is seemingly more successful at gaining ground, we do cooperate with Assad's military and NDF troops, who are surprisingly even less competent than their Iraqi colleagues, but at least they don't shit their pants and flee - they just drop like flies. That last point is the biggest concern, since they fight this way, will there be enough manpower to win some ground from the rebels and create space to maneuver against ISIS forces, let alone to cover the border against Saudi reinforcements?
God this situation is so fucked. I'm glad I'm not the president because I would just go "I don't fucking know" and let the ME consume itself.
Why is it that Isis is so much more terrifying than African warlords who commit the same crimes (genocide, mutilation, beheadings, torture, terrorism)? Is it because religious zealots are scary to us? Mindless zombies who follow their cause no matter what? Like the Borg?
Whats the mindset of the young people who come from Europe to go and fight for Isis? Are they really religious radicals, or are they just dumb kids who think they want to be part of something? They said a while back that jihadi john was some British kid who wanted to be a rapper. Wtf? Thats like some four lions shit. What drives these people to do what they do? Why are they so fucking nuts?
[QUOTE=gudman;48864839]Ohhh this again... let me explain. There's not much you can do via airstrikes. Especially against an enemy that anticipates that and is less clumsy and predictably organized than your average professional military. You pretty much have to have boots on the ground, in some form, to follow up on the airstrikes, all the while air force provides close air support to further disorganize the defence efforts.
That's why Iraq campaign is [b]relatively[/b] more successful for the coalition, there's Iraqi army, incompetent as it is. In Syria, airstrikes don't bear much fruit because the coalition won't cooperate with army on the ground, at best, with "moderate" rebels and sometimes Kurdish troops, and that's not enough, not by any margin.
And that same factor is why Russian/Iranian campaign is seemingly more successful at gaining ground, we do cooperate with Assad's military and NDF troops, who are surprisingly even less competent than their Iraqi colleagues, but at least they don't shit their pants and flee - they just drop like flies. That last point is the biggest concern, since they fight this way, will there be enough manpower to win some ground from the rebels and create space to maneuver against ISIS forces, let alone to cover the border against Saudi reinforcements?[/QUOTE]
Although we always seem to miss a trick, how many times in the media do we see something similar to this:
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4375819/NZB%20Matrix/victory.PNG[/IMG]
ISIS victory parades are like sitting ducks but we don't seem to ever have the intelligence to strike at this time?
[QUOTE]Whats the mindset of the young people who come from Europe to go and fight for Isis? Are they really religious radicals, or are they just dumb kids who think they want to be part of something? They said a while back that jihadi john was some British kid who wanted to be a rapper. Wtf? Thats like some four lions shit. What drives these people to do what they do? Why are they so fucking nuts?[/QUOTE]
I reckon most of them are sexual deviants. You spelt raper wrong.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48865248]Although we always seem to miss a trick, how many times in the media do we see something similar to this:
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4375819/NZB%20Matrix/victory.PNG[/IMG]
ISIS victory parades are like sitting ducks but we don't seem to ever have the intelligence to strike at this time?
I reckon most of them are sexual deviants. You spelt raper wrong.[/QUOTE]
Because those parades are heavily-filmed public events, and bombing those will cause the kinds of really visible collateral damage that we can't deal with.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48865234]God this situation is so fucked. I'm glad I'm not the president because I would just go "I don't fucking know" and let the ME consume itself.
Why is it that Isis is so much more terrifying than African warlords who commit the same crimes (genocide, mutilation, beheadings, torture, terrorism)?[/QUOTE]
Maybe because they are way more powerful, organized and well funded? Also i'm pretty sure zealots are the minority among them, most of their fighters are just people who enjoy, you know, genocide, mutilation, beheadings, torture, terrorism.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48865234]Why is it that Isis is so much more terrifying than African warlords who commit the same crimes (genocide, mutilation, beheadings, torture, terrorism)? Is it because religious zealots are scary to us? Mindless zombies who follow their cause no matter what? Like the Borg?
[/QUOTE]
This one is, I suppose, similar to why the Taliban/Al Qaeda had to be removed from control of their own regions. They went from terrorising people in their own land, to encouraging their people to make their way to the West and attack. Destroying terrorism-encouraging factions is reason enough, in my mind, since it's an important part of counter-terrorism.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48865234]God this situation is so fucked. I'm glad I'm not the president because I would just go "I don't fucking know" and let the ME consume itself.
Why is it that Isis is so much more terrifying than African warlords who commit the same crimes (genocide, mutilation, beheadings, torture, terrorism)? Is it because religious zealots are scary to us? Mindless zombies who follow their cause no matter what? Like the Borg?
Whats the mindset of the young people who come from Europe to go and fight for Isis?[B] Are they really religious radicals, or are they just dumb kids who think they want to be part of something?[/B] They said a while back that jihadi john was some British kid who wanted to be a rapper. Wtf? Thats like some four lions shit. What drives these people to do what they do? Why are they so fucking nuts?[/QUOTE]
You say that as if those things are mutually exclusive to each other. All of these factors amplify and justify each other. They're religious radicals, they're also directionless lumps who are looking for something to fight for, they're also lashing out at a culture which they see and oppressive and corrupt, they're also looking for a military adventure, they're also looking for a master-slave sex fantasy. It seems kind of silly to isolate any one of those causes as some kind of primary cause that needs to be addressed at the exclusion of all others.
well declairing jihads against things hasn't ever gotten out of hand, what could possibly go wrong?
Everything over there is a "holy war".
Holy fucking wars everywhere. I don't think they know the meaning of the word holy.
[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;48865271]Because those parades are heavily-filmed public events, and bombing those will cause the kinds of really visible collateral damage that we can't deal with.[/QUOTE]
That particular picture don't look like a public event to me, it looks like a convoy of ISIS trucks on a long stretch of road. These must all have travelled from the same direction at some point from an even more remote location.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48865234]God this situation is so fucked. I'm glad I'm not the president because I would just go "I don't fucking know" and let the ME consume itself.
[B]Why is it that Isis is so much more terrifying than African warlords who commit the same crimes (genocide, mutilation, beheadings, torture, terrorism)? Is it because religious zealots are scary to us? Mindless zombies who follow their cause no matter what? Like the Borg?[/B]
Whats the mindset of the young people who come from Europe to go and fight for Isis? Are they really religious radicals, or are they just dumb kids who think they want to be part of something? They said a while back that jihadi john was some British kid who wanted to be a rapper. Wtf? Thats like some four lions shit. What drives these people to do what they do? Why are they so fucking nuts?[/QUOTE]
IS heavily exploits social media and documentation of their operations to put anger and fear into the minds of people who consume their material. It's not really in the interest of African warlords to make feature length documentaries of their crimes to the melody of the dankest nasheed.
So to speak, IS really puts themselves out there and does it on purpose. African warlords are far from the minds of the public. When's the last time you even heard Boko Haram brought up outside of an article relevant to them? The Islamic State is synonymous with terrorism today much like al Qaeda was in 2001.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48865248]Although we always seem to miss a trick, how many times in the media do we see something similar to this:
-ISIS pic-
ISIS victory parades are like sitting ducks but we don't seem to ever have the intelligence to strike at this time?
[/QUOTE]
That I don't have an answer to, but I'm pretty sure there're reasons. Maybe such parades happen far from the front lines and it's not worth it to bomb them... Maybe they take prisoners with them to parade around... there're possibilities.
[editline]9th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;48865374]Everything over there is a "holy war".
Holy fucking wars everywhere. I don't think they know the meaning of the word holy.[/QUOTE]
I'd argue that it's you who doesn't know the meaning of a word "holy" in their culture... Not that I know either, I've heard somewhere that Jihad is more like a "blessed" than "holy" war.
[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;48865312]You say that as if those things are mutually exclusive to each other. All of these factors amplify and justify each other. They're religious radicals, they're also directionless lumps who are looking for something to fight for, they're also lashing out at a culture which they see and oppressive and corrupt, they're also looking for a military adventure, they're also looking for a master-slave sex fantasy. It seems kind of silly to isolate any one of those causes as some kind of primary cause that needs to be addressed at the exclusion of all others.[/QUOTE]
it's not silly because it's raising the issue of the order of causality, exactly as you've said
[editline]9th October 2015[/editline]
political islam is a complication of politics, not islam. islam isn't politically compelling alone, in a vacuum, by itself. the means and circumstances of life in poverty and under exploitation and in conflict determines the value of cultural objects like islam. islam doesn't grow food, doesn't make money rain from the sky. political islam as it is now was only born in the early 70s under intense political pressures and not the other way around.
[editline]9th October 2015[/editline]
you should all go see what modern third world poverty looks like at some point in your life and you'll understand why the mosque and the cathedral and spirituality is foundational and a relief to those people's lives
Wow... this whole conflict in the Middle East thing is really turning into a clusterfuck of biblical proportions, isn't it?
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48865234]God this situation is so fucked. I'm glad I'm not the president because I would just go "I don't fucking know" and let the ME consume itself.
Why is it that Isis is so much more terrifying than African warlords who commit the same crimes (genocide, mutilation, beheadings, torture, terrorism)? Is it because religious zealots are scary to us? Mindless zombies who follow their cause no matter what? Like the Borg?
Whats the mindset of the young people who come from Europe to go and fight for Isis? Are they really religious radicals, or are they just dumb kids who think they want to be part of something? They said a while back that jihadi john was some British kid who wanted to be a rapper. Wtf? Thats like some four lions shit. What drives these people to do what they do? Why are they so fucking nuts?[/QUOTE]
The answer to both why they're "more terrifying" and why young people go to help them have the same answer - the Islamic State has a powerful propaganda machine that has never been before exploited so well with the use of multiple social media forums by other jihadist groups or warlords.
Not to mention, African warlords care about conquering one place - their little slice of Africa for their small ethnic group. Where as the Islamic State, through their ideology, hope to conquer the world.
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