Tony Abbott refuses to apologise for Indonesian spying program - Polidicks

[QUOTE]Jakarta has pointedly warned Canberra that time is running out for a direct explanation of claims Australia bugged the Indonesian President, adding that Tony Abbott's parliamentary explanation was not good enough. Declaring the situation is ''not business as usual'', Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa said a step-up in the Indonesian response to Australia was being discussed at the highest levels. ''We'll continue to review the Indonesia-Australia relationship in general, not only regarding information exchange and intelligence. We'll continue to downgrade our relationship with them and it's up to them where the process ends," he said on Tuesday night. This could involve changes to the exchange of information and co-operation on people smuggling or a blanket refusal to accept returned asylum seekers rescued at sea. President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono's foreign affairs adviser Teuku Faizasyah said when Mr Abbott spoke on Tuesday he was "addressing the domestic audience". "Well, we still need an official explanation … a formal response," he said. "It's not advisable to maintain the status quo of not confirming or denying to these tapping incidents in the past. So we are waiting. At stake is the strategic relationship that we have established." Mr Abbott's unapologetic approach to the spying allegations threatens to escalate tensions and damage relations between the nations, a confidant of Dr Yudhoyono warned, as the Indonesian ambassador arrived back in Jakarta after being recalled from Australia over the affair. Read more: [url]http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-refuses-to-apologise-for-indonesian-spying-program-20131119-2xsn4.html#ixzz2lB8Lq1Uf[/url][/QUOTE]

Goodbye bilateral relations, as well as ASEAN and APEC. EDIT: Why are people disagreeing and dumbing? [QUOTE]Indonesia's foreign minister Marty Natalegawa had earlier announced the country is "not only reviewing our cooperation with Australia - we are actually already implementing the [B]downgrading of our bilateral relations with Australia[/B]". Indonesia had previously [B]warned that several key agreements with its southern neighbour were "at stake"[/B], and earlier today an Indonesian government minister cancelled an upcoming trip to Australia. Indonesian president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono says [B]all military and intelligence cooperation with Australia is on hold [/B]until he gets a proper explanation as to why Australian spies tried to tap his phone.[URL="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-20/abbott-regrets-indonesias-spy-scandal-embarrassment/5105326"] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-20/abbott-regrets-indonesias-spy-scandal-embarrassment/5105326[/URL][/QUOTE] It's what their government, and delegates have said.

this is so retarded. anyone mentions the stolen generation or any kind of sufferage by the aboriginals people shit themselves and panic - you compare this to when k-rudd apologised for said stolen generation (an apology was not needed at all, it was PURELY a political statement)... abbott is out of his league here

In his defense, it was most likely happening before he was in office.

[QUOTE=O'Neil;42923158]In his defense, it was most likely happening before he was in office.[/QUOTE] Still handled it the worst way possible.

[QUOTE=O'Neil;42923158]In his defense, it was most likely happening before he was in office.[/QUOTE] It was. This was 2009, if I remember correctly.

oh here we go good job abbott may as well cut all ties with asia and save you the time also invest in u.s. flags im guessing

Indonesia loves to fuck Australia over. I find it heartwarming that they get a little karma for the constant bullshit they get away with because Australia is usually so eager to press their lips against the ass of Indonesia.

[QUOTE=Azza;42923260]Indonesia loves to fuck Australia over. I find it heartwarming that they get a little karma for the constant bullshit they get away with because Australia is usually so eager to press their lips against the ass of Indonesia.[/QUOTE] yeah man! fuck those japs they deserved to be nuked! essentially what you're saying, replace america with aus and japan with indonesia

[QUOTE=O'Neil;42923158]In his defense, it was most likely happening before he was in office.[/QUOTE] Kevin Rudd apologized for the Stolen Generation where the Government took away Aboriginal children from their parents because they didn't think they were getting help and he wasn't in office when that happened.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;42923289]Kevin Rudd apologized for the Stolen Generation where the Government took away Aboriginal children from their parents because they didn't think they were getting help and he wasn't in office when that happened.[/QUOTE] So this suddenly sets some kind of rule?

[QUOTE=O'Neil;42923158]In his defense, it was most likely happening before he was in office.[/QUOTE] I was watching question time when he said this stuff, he made it quite clear that he was willing to take the responsibility as the current Australian leader for the actions from previous governments because they would have occurred in both Labor and Liberal governments. [editline]20th November 2013[/editline] In relation to these matters. Then he went on to say that there is nothing wrong and Indonesia should stop being so upset.

[QUOTE=gerbe1;42923311]I was watching question time when he said this stuff, he made it quite clear that he was willing to take the responsibility as the current Australian leader for the actions from previous governments because they would have occurred in both Labor and Liberal governments. [editline]20th November 2013[/editline] In relation to these matters. Then he went on to say that there is nothing wrong and Indonesia should stop being so upset.[/QUOTE] Abbott has no real choice - either betray the ANZUS treaty and change the intelligence policies and intelligence community in this country (especially Pine Gap (FIVEEYES / ECHELON)) or continue being manipulated by the powerbrokers in Washington DC. To add though, I wouldn't be surprised if the DSD / ASIO has been spying on every country within the south-east asian region, maybe the entirety of the asiatic area (so including NK, Japan, ROK, PRC, Vietnam etc)

[QUOTE=O'Neil;42923309]So this suddenly sets some kind of rule?[/QUOTE] Simply saying he shouldn't apologize because he wasn't in office during this is fucking retarded, he's currently representing the Country, does he expect the Governor General to apologize?

Wow he's even useless at international relations

Yeah I've been spying on you and now that you've caught me I don't want to be friends anymore, unless you still want to, but not best friends, unless you really want.

[QUOTE=shutter_eye5;42923339]Abbott has no real choice - either betray the ANZUS treaty and change the intelligence policies and intelligence community in this country (especially Pine Gap (FIVEEYES / ECHELON)) or continue being manipulated by the powerbrokers in Washington DC.[/QUOTE] This is clear. Thing is Abbott has no skill with diplomacy. Do you know all that he needed to do? Apologise and say that he will work on reviewing the intelligence system, implement a review, keep it secret for security concerns, announce some reforms and talk to SBY. Desperately do as much nothing as possible. All the commentators who know their intelligence stuff have been saying that [I]every[/I] country does it, and every country doesn't much care, but if it becomes public, they pretend too. As much as he was an absolute twat and a fool, Kevin Rudd at least knew how to handle diplomacy. [editline]20th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lonestriper;42923356]Wow he's even useless at international relations[/QUOTE] If you couldn't pinpoint that before the election you weren't paying attention. His entire asylum seeker policy involved absolutely zero consultation with foreign countries and displayed that proudly as a reason as to why it would work because Australia is a its own nation and will not succumb to what other nations tell it. That is what he tried to convey to the conservative wing.

[quote]''We'll continue to review the Indonesia-Australia relationship in general, not only regarding information exchange and intelligence. We'll continue to d[B]owngrade our relationship [/B]with them and it's up to them where the process ends," he said on Tuesday night. [/quote] hey uh what did he just say he wants to actually destabilize relationships with another country what did indonesia do to piss off abbot

[QUOTE=gerbe1;42923364]... If you couldn't pinpoint that before the election you weren't paying attention. His entire asylum seeker policy involved absolutely zero consultation with foreign countries and displayed that proudly as a reason as to why it would work because Australia is a its own nation and will not succumb to what other nations tell it. That is what he tried to convey to the conservative wing.[/QUOTE] Best bit about his refugee policy was when he kept saying that "we have the right to decide who comes to this country", then when Indonesia rejects a boat he claims that they have a responsibility to accept them.

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;42923380]what did indonesia do to piss off abbot[/QUOTE] That was what an Indonesian minister said, not Abbott.

[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;42923382]Best bit about his refugee policy was when he kept saying that "we have the right to decide who comes to this country", then when Indonesia rejects a boat he claims that they have a responsibility to accept them.[/QUOTE] Abbott can be hopelessly ironic at times

[QUOTE=gerbe1;42923387]That was what an Indonesian minister said, not Abbott.[/QUOTE] i know but like what does indonesia have that makes abbot want to spy on them

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;42923408]i know but like what does indonesia have that makes abbot want to spy on them[/QUOTE] It is standard practice for nations to spy on other nations. Abbott certainly didn't order the spying.

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;42923408]i know but like what does indonesia have that makes abbot want to spy on them[/QUOTE] boat people

Spying is equivalent to watching someone showering naked without them knowing. And I really do not understand what's the purpose of Australia spying on Indonesia. No offence to you Australians out there but i think your government must be the most be super paranoid government in the world to be spying on Indonesia and the rest of South East Asia. I bet they are spying on us Singaporeans and Malaysia because they think we have terrorist here. What other reason do Indonesia have to be spied upon? There is no nuclear weapons, WMD or heavy drug trade sponsered by the government anyways.

Yeah, We have nothing :| and yeah, what our government wants is only an official statement, nothing more nothing less.

[QUOTE=BCell;42923544]Spying is equivalent to watching someone showering naked without them knowing. And I really do not understand what's the purpose of Australia spying on Indonesia. No offence to you Australians out there but i think your government must be the most be super paranoid government in the world to be spying on Indonesia and the rest of South East Asia. I bet they are spying on us Singaporeans and Malaysia because they think we have terrorist here. What other reason do Indonesia have to be spied upon? There is no nuclear weapons, WMD or heavy drug trade sponsered by the government anyways.[/QUOTE] I am pretty sure these days most of the information on the internet is just getting sorted through by companies/governments anyway, so in a way the whole world is being spied on. [editline]20th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=TheXbriteEco;42923702]Yeah, We have nothing :| and yeah, what our government wants is only an official statement, nothing more nothing less.[/QUOTE] Im sure it matters to you greatly.

[QUOTE=BCell;42923544]What other reason do Indonesia have to be spied upon? There is no nuclear weapons, WMD or heavy drug trade sponsered by the government anyways.[/QUOTE] So, how exactly do you know if a country has nuclear weapons, WMDs, or government-sponsored drug trade in the first place? And how do you make sure that a country doesn't start on any of the three? You're saying spying is unnecessary on the basis of information [I]gained by spying[/I]. Governments keeping tabs on each other forces them to stay on the level and makes it a lot harder to hide abuses of power. You can't always count on leaks to expose corrupt programs or violations of international law. Sure, they'll apologize, and they'll pretend to be reining in. It's a great little PR spiel that makes the public think progress is being made. But in reality, nothing changes, because governments see it as a necessary evil. It's expensive, it's intrusive, it can be exploited by enemies for PR, but it's the [b]only[/b] sure-fire way to know if a foreign politician is lying through his teeth. So it'll continue. It's as simple as that.

Spying programs? How about realizing were standing on the temporarily hardened skin of billions of tonnes of molten rock, zipping through space at 1037.5646 miles per hour. Existing only because of haphazard environtal conditions that allows for the existance of complex lifeforms. We have our work cut out for us, a finite window of time before this tiny speck in the universe becomes uninhabitable again. And what are you giving me world? oh, webs of alliances locked in perpetual conflict? heh. sure. alright.