Oculus ordered to pay $500 million in ZeniMax lawsuit - Polidicks

[URL="http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/1/14442212/facebook-oculus-zenimax-vr-lawsuit-verdict-palmer-luckey"]The Verge article[/URL] [QUOTE]Oculus has been ordered to pay half a billion dollars in a lawsuit with games company ZeniMax. According to Polygon, a jury awarded the sum after determining that Oculus executives violated a ZeniMax non-disclosure agreement in the early days of building the Oculus Rift VR headset. But it also decided that Oculus wasn’t guilty of misappropriating trade secrets, another of ZeniMax’s charges. Polygon writes that the $500 million award is composed of $200 million for NDA violation, plus $50 million for copyright infringement, a $50 million award against both Oculus and co-founder Palmer Luckey for false designation, and $150 million against former CEO Brendan Iribe for false designation. The overall award is less than the $4 billion that ZeniMax asked for, but it’s a substantial judgment against Oculus, and one that the company plans to appeal.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.pcworld.com/article/3164263/consumer-electronics/oculus-cleared-of-stealing-vr-secrets-in-zenimax-lawsuit-but-still-must-pay-500-million.html"]PC World article[/URL] [QUOTE]Nearly three years after ZeniMax first filed suit against Oculus for “illegally misappropriating ZeniMax trade secrets relating to virtual reality technology,” the case has finally drawn to a close—though likely not to ZeniMax’s satisfaction. Oculus is cleared of any charges related to stolen assets and expertise, and thus can presumably continue to sell its Oculus Rift virtual reality headset uninterrupted. Not that Oculus escaped entirely without penalty. One of ZeniMax’s secondary complaints involved breach of contract on Luckey’s part, with Zenimax alleging that Luckey violated an NDA by using its intellectual property (specifically Doom 3: BFG Edition) in—among other things—the original Rift Kickstarter video. For its troubles, ZeniMax was awarded $500 million by the jury.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14474198/oculus-lawsuit-verdict"]Polygon article[/URL] [QUOTE]A Dallas, Texas jury today awarded half a billion dollars to ZeniMax after finding that Oculus co-founder Palmer Luckey, and by extension Oculus, failed to comply with a non-disclosure agreement he signed. In awarding ZeniMax $500 million, the jury also said that Oculus did not misappropriate trade secrets as contended by ZeniMax.[/QUOTE] Oculus statement: [QUOTE]“The heart of this case was about whether Oculus stole ZeniMax's trade secrets, and the jury found decisively in our favor,” an Oculus spokesperson told Polygon. “We're obviously disappointed by a few other aspects of today's verdict, but we are undeterred. Oculus products are built with Oculus technology. Our commitment to the long-term success of VR remains the same, and the entire team will continue the work they've done since day one – developing VR technology that will transform the way people interact and communicate. “[/QUOTE] Zenimax statement: [QUOTE]"We are pleased that the jury in our case in the U.S. District Court in Dallas has awarded ZeniMax $500,000,000 for Defendants’ unlawful infringement of our copyrights and trademarks, and for the violation of our non-disclosure agreement with Oculus pursuant to which we shared breakthrough VR technology that we had developed and that we exclusively own. In addition, the jury upheld our complaint regarding the theft by John Carmack of RAGE source code and thousands of electronic files on a USB storage device which contained ZeniMax VR technology. While we regret we had to litigate in order to vindicate our rights, it was necessary to take a stand against companies that engage in illegal activity in their desire to get control of new, valuable technology.[/QUOTE] Edit: Added more articles and Oculus and Zenimax statement

What the fuck :v:

Seems kinda excessive, no?

Good, hopefully Oculus crashes and burns. Stealing tech from other companies is disgusting, ESP when they have Facebook funding them. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("didn't read the article" - Orkel))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51762124]Good, hopefully Oculus crashes and burns. Stealing tech from other companies is disgusting, ESP when they have Facebook funding them.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] But it also decided that Oculus wasn’t guilty of misappropriating trade secrets, another of ZeniMax’s charges.[/QUOTE] Zenimax aren't the "secret revolutionaries of VR" like they act. I really don't see how Oculus stole tech. Maybe they had code but not tech. but if it does kill Oculus that's bad. I'd rather Oculus /learned to be better/. VR kind of needs alternative headsets right now.

Basically Fuck you, We owned YOU.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51762124]Good, hopefully Oculus crashes and burns. Stealing tech from other companies is disgusting, ESP when they have Facebook funding them.[/QUOTE] good thing they didn't do that

let me guess, the oculus rift uses a sliver of code that john carmack wrote on an id software owned computer on company time or some shit

[QUOTE=J!NX;51762139]I really don't see how Oculus stole tech. Maybe they had code but not tech.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what your understanding of "code" and "tech" is, but stealing code is literally no different from stealing hardware, or whatever you're calling tech.

[QUOTE=meppers;51762214]let me guess, the oculus rift uses a sliver of code that john carmack wrote on an id software owned computer on company time or some shit[/QUOTE] Except code cannot be copyrightable.

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51762223]Except code cannot be copyrightable.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_copyright"]What?[/URL] You're definitely confused.

[QUOTE=Socram;51762215]I'm not sure what your understanding of "code" and "tech" is, but stealing code is literally no different from stealing hardware, or whatever you're calling tech.[/QUOTE] I was literally just going off them having said "tech" I was assuming they meant hardware and nothing more because that's almost always what people refer to 'tech' as [QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51762140]Basically Fuck you, We owned YOU.[/QUOTE] Everyone was rooting against ZeniMax because they were clearly doing it because of Carmack now tons of people are going to parade for the 'winning team' because it makes them look better to be on 'the winning side'. obviously Oculus shouldn't have fucked them off, but I still don't trust Zenimax

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51762124]Good, hopefully Oculus crashes and burns. Stealing tech from other companies is disgusting, ESP when they have Facebook funding them.[/QUOTE] 1. Not reading the article. 2. Spreading unfounded vitriol against a party on ideological grounds. 3. Melodrama. I'll bite. This isn't going to kill them, and you know it. Facebook's bigger than $500m/year in liquid profit. This is just the cost of doing business. Also, the question remains: if Zenimax had the kind of advanced VR tech they claim to when Oculus was in its infancy, why wasn't Luckey slapped with a C&D until after he launched a successful consumer product and got purchased by Facebook? I remain largely skeptical of Zenimax's claims, and you should too.

Hopefully Oculus won't cease to exist due to this. There needs to be healthy competition in VR headset market.

[QUOTE=Robotboy655;51762267]Hopefully Oculus won't cease to exist due to this. There needs to be healthy competition in VR headset market.[/QUOTE] It'd be bullshit if VR died for a while because of outside non-sense mainly because dipshits wouldn't be able to get over themselves and their "ITS A GIMMICK" talks

[QUOTE=J!NX;51762242]I was literally just going off them having said "tech" I was assuming they meant hardware and nothing more because that's almost always what people refer to 'tech' as Everyone was rooting against ZeniMax because they were clearly doing it because of Carmack now tons of people are going to parade for the 'winning team' because it makes them look better obviously Oculus shouldn't have fucked them off, but I still don't trust Zenimax[/QUOTE] let me rephrase that "Fuck you, We owned YOU" This is basically saying They won because they Owned Carmack

[QUOTE=meppers;51762214]let me guess, the oculus rift uses a sliver of code that john carmack wrote on an id software owned computer on company time or some shit[/QUOTE] If that's the case it's kinda funny considering id and carmacks history with softdisk

They will appeal as is standard in these cases, and it'll become a smaller sum. As the court stated, Oculus did not steal anything from Zenimax, this 500 million is simply for breaking an NDA and is overkill. Thus appeals.

[QUOTE=Orkel;51762335]They will appeal as is standard in these cases, and it'll become a smaller sum. As the court stated, Oculus did not steal anything from Zenimax, this 500 million is simply for breaking an NDA and is overkill. Thus appeals.[/QUOTE] Uhhhhhh, about that. From Kotaku: [QUOTE]John Carmack confessed to taking thousands of documents and lines of code from Zenimax before he departed. “I copied files that I shouldn’t have. I think stealing is an uncharitable way to look at it since I didn’t benefit and Zenimax didn’t lose, but I shouldn’t have done it, and I did,” Carmack said while being questioned by Zenimax’s lawyer.[/QUOTE] You done fucked up.

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51762293]let me rephrase that "Fuck you, We owned YOU" This is basically saying They won because they Owned Carmack[/QUOTE] The saddest part is id Software and John Carmack were independent all until 2009. Zenimax and Bethesda did absolutely nothing to help him become an engineer that he is today. And once he showed interest in this new field he had no choice, but to leave his own company.

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51762346]Uhhhhhh, about that. From Kotaku: You done fucked up.[/QUOTE] Oculus is innocent. Carmack is fucked.

[QUOTE=J!NX;51762359]Oculus is innocent. Carmack is fucked.[/QUOTE] Again, I wonder if this isn't the cost of doing business. Carmack has contributed, and continues to contribute, quite a lot to Oculus. It's valuable for Facebook to have him around. I don't expect him to be going anywhere, considering his pedigree and continuing benefit to the company.

[QUOTE=J!NX;51762104]What the fuck :v:[/QUOTE] Software and engineering companies basically own your soul when you work for them. If they have the [I]slightest suspicion[/I] that you worked on something (i.e. invention) on company time, or with company resources, or with company personnel, they can and often will sue to claim whatever you made is theirs. It's what happened with those hideous Bratz dolls. Mattel (Barbie dolls) claimed that the creators designed the Bratz while working for them. The creators claimed they designed them during a period of unemployment between different positions at Mattel. Ergo, Mattel [I]sued the shit[/I] out of Bratz.

Carmack isn't fucked. Carmack is going to face some issues, sure, but he's far from fucked. You don't let [B]the[/B] programmer go. No matter who else is working on the things coding, Carmack is the go to go guy on anything he's ever really done.

[QUOTE=Saber15;51762382]Software and engineering companies basically own your soul when you work for them. If they have the [I]slightest suspicion[/I] that you worked on something (i.e. invention) on company time, or with company resources, or with company personnel, they can and often will sue to claim whatever you made is theirs. It's what happened with those hideous Bratz dolls. Mattel (Barbie dolls) claimed that the creators designed the Bratz while working for them. The creators claimed they designed them during a period of unemployment between different positions at Mattel. Ergo, Mattel [I]sued the shit[/I] out of Bratz.[/QUOTE] As it revealed in my last post, Carmack admitted to stealing code and documents.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51762124][highlight](User was banned for this post ("didn't read the article" - Orkel))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Even if they weren't convicted of misappropriating trade secrets, a conviction for violating NDA agreements, copyright infringement, [I]and[/I] false designation pretty clearly indicates that they were developing Oculus using expertise and IP (including code) developed at Zenimax and refused to license or reach an agreement. They illegally used Zenimax's IP to develop their own product based at least in part on Zenimax's work. Carmack himself admits that he took thousands of Zenimax's documents with him when he left. That sure sounds like stealing tech to me.

[QUOTE=catbarf;51762424]Even if they weren't convicted of misappropriating trade secrets, a conviction for violating NDA agreements, copyright infringement, [I]and[/I] false designation pretty clearly indicates that they were developing Oculus using expertise and IP (including code) developed at Zenimax and refused to license or reach an agreement. They illegally used Zenimax's IP to develop their own product based at least in part on Zenimax's work. Carmack himself admits that he took thousands of Zenimax's documents with him when he left. That sure sounds like stealing tech to me.[/QUOTE] Everybody is talking about Carmack here [B]except the actual articles[/B]. Luckey seems to be the one that fucked up, he and that Iribe guy alone need to pay 200 million. There is no talk about Carmack being guilty for anything.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51762390]Carmack isn't fucked. Carmack is going to face some issues, sure, but he's far from fucked. You don't let [B]the[/B] programmer go. No matter who else is working on the things coding, Carmack is the go to go guy on anything he's ever really done.[/QUOTE] He's not going to go, however with this revelation, he might not wan't to contine on with the appeal now, One of the judges might actually request them to give them the source code, and have people compare codes to see if there WAS trade secrets, or even asset forfeiture.

[QUOTE=J!NX;51762359]Oculus is innocent. Carmack is fucked.[/QUOTE] this isn't true at all beyond maybe slightly more specific wording in all of his contracts going forward. regardless, carmack doesn't give a fuck. he doesn't care about business or money, he cares about his projects and advancing them. carmack is already independently wealthy [QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51762395]As it revealed in my last post, Carmack admitted to stealing code and documents.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51762390]Carmack isn't fucked. Carmack is going to face some issues, sure, but he's far from fucked. You don't let [B]the[/B] programmer go. No matter who else is working on the things coding, Carmack is the go to go guy on anything he's ever really done.[/QUOTE] irrelevant. the jury has already decided, there is no further action that will be taken. carmack is not paying anything, nor is zuck. the only people paying anything are abrash and luckey, 150m and 50m respectively, for breaking an NDA, although i'm not certain what NDA or how. oculus itself has to pay 500m. regardless of what carmack 'stole' from zenimax, that isn't what the trial was over when it began. it began over carmack moonlighting for oculus as a startup while he was still under the employment of zenimax. his contract did not forbid moonlighting, and zenimax willfully tolerated it until he left to join oculus full time and it was acquired by facebook. that's when they smelled money in the water, and that's when they filed suit.

[QUOTE=AntonioR;51762436]BTW, everybody is talking about Carmack here [B]except the actual articles[/B]. Luckey seems to be the one that fucked up, he and that Iribe guy alone need to pay 200 million. There is no talk about Carmack being guilty for anything.[/QUOTE] Carmack admitted in the Kotaku article He in fact steal Documents and code. [editline]1st February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zombii;51762446]this isn't true at all beyond maybe slightly more specific wording in all of his contracts going forward. regardless, carmack doesn't give a fuck. he doesn't care about business or money, he cares about his projects and advancing them. carmack is already independently wealthy irrelevant. the jury has already decided, there is no further action that will be taken. carmack is not paying anything, nor is zuck. the only people paying anything are abrash and luckey, 150m and 50m respectively, for breaking an NDA, although i'm not certain what NDA or how. oculus itself has to pay 500m. regardless of what carmack 'stole' from zenimax, that isn't what the trial was over when it began. it began over carmack moonlighting for oculus as a startup while he was still under the employment of zenimax. his contract did not forbid moonlighting, and zenimax willfully tolerated it until he left to join oculus full time and it was acquired by facebook. that's when they smelled money in the water, and that's when they filed suit.[/QUOTE] The problem is now Zenimax can (if it wants to) file a separate suit against carmack, and then if proven anything was used from the documents or code, The infringing code will have to be removed or Zenimax get's royalties. And due to the Defend Trade Secrets Act, they are going to federal court If they file a separate suit