That's good.
There's never really a need to have more than 1 hero per team anyways.
Good. Leave the 5-of-the-same-class-and-a-Lucio strats in the quick play please.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pQRxUkN.png[/IMG]
:v:
[QUOTE=gastyne;50697947]That's good.
There's never really a need to have more than 1 hero per team anyways.[/QUOTE]
High level players almost always use doubles. Double zarya, double tracers, double winstons, stuff like that. Leads to really boring games.
I was expecting it to be limited to one-of-a-kind already, surprised to hear opposite.
[QUOTE=Naught;50698002][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pQRxUkN.png[/IMG]
:v:[/QUOTE]
I think this is about different heroes('s ults) working together
I hope they tried really really hard to solve this any other way possible before coming to this conclusion.
Why is this such a problem? I only played in the beta so I'm genuinely curious. What makes it so bad that it needs to be blocked in competitive, I imagine anything is counterable if the game is as balanced as everyone says.
[QUOTE=Socram;50698222]Why is this such a problem? I only played in the beta so I'm genuinely curious. What makes it so bad that it needs to be blocked in competitive, I imagine anything is counterable if the game is as balanced as everyone says.[/QUOTE]
2 winstons, 2 tracers, 2 lucios
absolute fucking cancer to play against
Christmas in July?
I've never had a team where hero stacking ended well for us, usually just get hard countered then it turns into a massive waste of time.
"The world could use less heroes."
[QUOTE=Antimuffin;50698330]2 winstons, 2 tracers, 2 lucios
absolute fucking cancer to play against[/QUOTE]
So those heroes are imbalanced? Or what, sorry I'd like a bit more info than that if possible.
[QUOTE=Socram;50698988]So those heroes are imbalanced? Or what, sorry I'd like a bit more info than that if possible.[/QUOTE]
They're perfectly balanced in isolation, but when you combine multiples in KOTH, where the map design makes them invaluable, you can see why they become such a problem.
Double tracer gives your team mobility and damage, her ult recharges fast enough to reliably kill tankier characters. She can blink to the capture point and contest it for eternity which is incredibly annoying and drags out games forever.
To counter the tracers, you have to bring winstons, who has a gun that shuts them down and a bubble shield to reduce their slight range advantage. Winston also has a lot of mobility with his leap and he's already really good in KOTH. Having two of them who can coordinate their attacks melts tracer easily.
Finally you have the two lucios, the best support character in the game. KOTH is heavily focused around tight, close quarters combat which makes his radius passive heal the best in the game. He can also provide even more mobility through his speed boost. Their ult can also be used to add some survivability to the squishy tracers, and with two of them you have even more uptime.
KOTH is disproportionately played in top level play due to how steam roll-y the other modes are. As a result this is THE team composition in competitive right now. If you're not running it you're not winning. There are statistics taken by dedicated competitive observers that show tracer with more than a 200% pick rate, meaning on average she's picked nearly three times in every KOTH match.
It's incredibly busted, a lot of people are blaming it on the overtime mechanics though due to Tracer's ability to contest. I think a hero limit is good though, it means that at least we'll see more than three heroes forever until the end of time.
while i think some priority should've been put on balancing heroes to be more appealing high-level, i still think the one-hero-per-team rule should've been a thing from the start
[QUOTE=gastyne;50697947]That's good.
There's never really a need to have more than 1 hero per team anyways.[/QUOTE]
In a world where perfect balance existed, maybe. This way works much better.
[sp]it's not a criticism that blizzard balanced the game poorly, i'm just saying this kind of game is impossible to be 100% perfectly balanced no matter how good of a job they do at it[/sp]
[QUOTE=Streecer;50699256]They're perfectly balanced in isolation, but when you combine multiples in KOTH, where the map design makes them invaluable, you can see why they become such a problem.
Double tracer gives your team mobility and damage, her ult recharges fast enough to reliably kill tankier characters. She can blink to the capture point and contest it for eternity which is incredibly annoying and drags out games forever.
To counter the tracers, you have to bring winstons, who has a gun that shuts them down and a bubble shield to reduce their slight range advantage. Winston also has a lot of mobility with his leap and he's already really good in KOTH. Having two of them who can coordinate their attacks melts tracer easily.
Finally you have the two lucios, the best support character in the game. KOTH is heavily focused around tight, close quarters combat which makes his radius passive heal the best in the game. He can also provide even more mobility through his speed boost. Their ult can also be used to add some survivability to the squishy tracers, and with two of them you have even more uptime.
KOTH is disproportionately played in top level play due to how steam roll-y the other modes are. As a result this is THE team composition in competitive right now. If you're not running it you're not winning. There are statistics taken by dedicated competitive observers that show tracer with more than a 200% pick rate, meaning on average she's picked nearly three times in every KOTH match.
It's incredibly busted, a lot of people are blaming it on the overtime mechanics though due to Tracer's ability to contest. I think a hero limit is good though, it means that at least we'll see more than three heroes forever until the end of time.[/QUOTE]
I think that for KOTH there is still a pretty big risk of ending up with a 6 hero preset composition instead of 3 hero preset.
[QUOTE=Cold;50700345]I think that for KOTH there is still a pretty big risk of ending up with a 6 hero preset composition instead of 3 hero preset.[/QUOTE]
At least that's a 6 hero synergy rather than a 3 hero synergy. It will let them do some more interesting things to the balance of characters that would otherwise make that character insane as a double pick. For instance they can buff Winston who is already really powerful as a stacked character but slightly below average as a single character pick.
[QUOTE=Naught;50698002][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pQRxUkN.png[/IMG]
:v:[/QUOTE]
i'm happy they at least worked out they fucked up and are changing it instead of just... not
No more 5 Torb Hanamura, thanks Blizz.
oh boy here it comes, sure love enforced meta.
[QUOTE=kakizc;50702517]oh boy here it comes, sure love enforced meta.[/QUOTE]
There's nothing wrong with this kind of enforcing. It's on the same level as league not allowing mirror matches in competitive.
[QUOTE=kakizc;50702517]oh boy here it comes, sure love enforced meta.[/QUOTE]
You mean like how 2x Tracer 2x Winston 2x Lucio was enforced meta if you wanted to win? On koth anyways.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;50702348]No more 5 Torb Hanamura, thanks Blizz.[/QUOTE]
It's comp mode only. So.
[QUOTE=kakizc;50702517]oh boy here it comes, sure love enforced meta.[/QUOTE]
Because having the cheesy builds that allow for easy wins and provide 0 entertainment is totally fun for people who watch or play comp right? If I wanted to play comp and the only way to ensure victory was to play that build it'd cheapen the game.
[QUOTE=Cold;50698211]I hope they tried really really hard to solve this any other way possible before coming to this conclusion.[/QUOTE]
TF2 has the same problem.
Class rushes are inherently better than diverse teams because downsides just get mitigated by sheer numbers, so you can just obliterate people with your class rush's upsides via brute force. (Barring specific things like Spy rush vs 3-4 Pyros or Scout rush vs 2+ Engineers) It's just not as obvious because pub teams are disorganized and only form rushes on occasion when people chatspam to do it.
Just the nature of the beast of class-based team FPSes, unfortunately.
[QUOTE=The Duke;50703689]TF2 has the same problem.
Class rushes are inherently better than diverse teams because downsides just get mitigated by sheer numbers, so you can just obliterate people with your class rush's upsides via brute force. (Barring specific things like Spy rush vs 3-4 Pyros or Scout rush vs 2+ Engineers) It's just not as obvious because pub teams are disorganized and only form rushes on occasion when people chatspam to do it.
Just the nature of the beast of class-based team FPSes, unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
The difference with Overwatch is that you have quite a lot more classes tho, you can still make quite the meme teams without having to pick duplicates, especially in a year when we have ~5 more heroes to pick from.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;50703107]There's nothing wrong with this kind of enforcing. It's on the same level as league not allowing mirror matches in competitive.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, considering the mirror matches in LCK were some of the most fun matches in League history and now we're stuck in lane swap every 10 minutes before something might happen in the game. Yeah, I totally see this being a good thing.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;50703107]There's nothing wrong with this kind of enforcing. It's on the same level as league not allowing mirror matches in competitive.[/QUOTE]
to be fair, league enforcing the meta so much is why its so damn boring.
Not sure why they didn't make it that you can't have more than one doubled up hero: So two tracers, but then no one can pick two Winstons or Lucios.
Sure, being faced against two MMR 70 Genji's is awful - but that's the worst thing I can imagine.
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