Human Rights Watch concerned about Children as young as 7 legally doing backbreaking labor on US To - Polidicks

[url]http://bigstory.ap.org/article/report-highlights-child-labor-us-tobacco-farms[/url] [QUOTE]RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — An international rights group is pushing the federal government and the tobacco industry to take further steps to protect children working on U.S. tobacco farms. A report released Wednesday by Human Rights Watch claims that children as young as 7 are sometimes working long hours in fields harvesting nicotine- and pesticide-laced tobacco leaves under sometimes hazardous conditions. Most of what the group documented is legal, but it wants cigarette makers to push for safety on farms from which they buy tobacco. Human Rights Watch details findings from interviews with more than 140 children working on farms in North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee and Virginia, where a majority of the country's tobacco is grown. Less than 1 percent of U.S. farmland grows tobacco, according to the 2012 Census of Agriculture. According to the Human Rights Watch report, U.S. agriculture labor laws allow children to work longer hours at younger ages and in more hazardous conditions than children in any other industry. With their parent's permission, children as young as 12 can be hired for unlimited hours outside of school hours on a farm of any size. And there's no minimum age for children to work on small farms.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Nearly three-quarters of the children interviewed in 2012 and 2013 reported vomiting, nausea and headaches while working on tobacco farms. The symptoms they reported are consistent with nicotine poisoning often called Green Tobacco Sickness, which occurs when workers absorb nicotine through their skin while handling tobacco plants.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/newt-gingrich-child-labor-lobbyist_n_1105178.html[/url]

another reason to not smoke

They really should be given the proper PPE. There is no excuse for a lack of PPE.

What is it with the US and bad labor conditions?

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44834656]What is it with the US and bad labor conditions?[/QUOTE] Muh free market & unregulated capitalism

Why would you use child labor in America with so many unemployed adults

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44834778]Why would you use child labor in America with so many unemployed adults[/QUOTE]Children work for less.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44834778]Why would you use child labor in America with so many unemployed adults[/QUOTE] Just like how every company outsources their work to China, cheaper workforce, mo' money. [editline]17th May 2014[/editline] Curse you!

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44834778]Why would you use child labor in America with so many unemployed adults[/QUOTE] Let me put it to you this way: Starting in middle school, I worked at a turtle farm (that's where baby turtles in pet shops come from) 6 days a week after school and for a few hours on Saturdays for $5.25/hour during turtle season. The work done is seasonal, low hours, and it's not nearly enough work to support a full time employee. What it did, however, was allow kids like myself to make, on average, $100 a week for easy work. So as a kid, I had income to buy the toys and whatnot that I wanted. It was a way for me to make money and learn the value of a dollar. Also, we got all the kool-pops we wanted. "Child labor" isn't always a bad thing. For most jobs, it's not ok, but for agricultural stuff like this, it's not a bad way to teach kids about adult life while they make a little money. It just needs the proper oversight.

[QUOTE=TehWhale;44834813]Children work for less.[/QUOTE] Looks like these laws are made so that children can help out on the family farm.

Child labor, only in China, North Korea and those poor Asian countries, right ?

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44834656]What is it with the US and bad labor conditions?[/QUOTE] The people that run these companies would go back to industrial age conditions if they could.

[quote]According to the Human Rights Watch report, U.S. agriculture labor laws allow children to work longer hours at younger ages and in more hazardous conditions than children in any other industry. With their parent's permission, children as young as 12 can be hired for unlimited hours outside of school hours on a farm of any size. And there's no minimum age for children to work on small farms.[/quote] so how much longer until we start seeing child labor unions?

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44834960]so how much longer until we start seeing child labor unions?[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.vice.com/vice-news/child-workers-of-the-world-unite[/url] In Bolivia these unions fight to keep child labor around.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44834924]Looks like these laws are made so that children can help out on the family farm.[/QUOTE] That's what they were intended for, it's not what they're being used for now.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44834924]Looks like these laws are made so that children can help out on the family farm.[/QUOTE] So what's the difference? Both are producing something that's highly addictive and pesticide ridden, both have sub-par working conditions, and both have child labor. This is sorta my beef with anything regarding child labor laws. It's either across the board or it's done in such a terrible way that you may as well not have the laws in the first place. Lot of the farming communities in the Midwest play this bullshit of, "it's a family farm" "the kids are just helping their parents" blah blah. The principles of a family farm are not dated, but the concept that theirs any difference between family farms and industrial enterprises, is utter crap. Both aim to make money, both aim to exploit child labor laws, both usually do not give a payroll to teenage workers thanks to loopholes within the system. This can also be shot at several other industries which I cannot even begin to start naming, but current child labor laws do not make sense. Just regulate across the board, "YOU CANNOT WORK UNTIL YOU ARE 13 OR 14" and disallow teenagers from working during their school years if it shows to have a negative impact on their capability to learn in school.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44837900]So what's the difference? Both are producing something that's highly addictive and pesticide ridden, both have have sub-par working conditions, and both have child labor. This is sorta my beef with anything regarding child labor laws. It's either across the board or it's done in such a terrible way that you may as well not have the laws in the first place. Lot of the farming communities in the Midwest play this bullshit of, "it's a family farm" "the kids are just helping their parents" blah blah. The principles of a family farm are not dated, but the concept that theirs any difference between family farms and industrial enterprises, is utter crap. Both aim to make money, both aim to exploit child labor laws, both usually do not give a payroll to teenage workers thanks to loopholes within the system. This can also be shot at several other industries which I cannot even begin to start naming, but current child labor laws do not make sense. Just regulate across the board, "YOU CANNOT WORK UNTIL YOU ARE 13 OR 14" and disallow teenagers from working during their school years if it shows to have a negative impact on their capability to learn in school.[/QUOTE] read ilo 182 before stating that "there may as well be none at all" child labor laws have a significant effect on the forms of work that children are allowed to participate in. go back 50-100 years and you've got kids working in jobs that would literally kill them because they're so hazardous to their health. the current state of affairs with this industry is just making them sick - not that i'm saying that's okay, but it's a shitload better than working with heavy machinery like children used to pre ilo182. the law is designed to protect the autonomy and right to work of a child as long as it doesn't interfere with schooling. generally it isn't a problem. HRW is saying tobacco companies should go the extra mile to ensure their child employees don't get sick

I am more gearing my comments at that using child labor in any sort of agriculture is bad in practice, and the current set of laws are fucking stupid for how they allow children to work on farmland just because it's family operated over company operated. From what I'm reading, most of the kids on these farms are not given proper clothing for dealing with wet tobacco, and fall to GTS(Green Tobacco Sickness). If that is the case, I don't see why we only stop with child laborers, as this type of thing screws everyone over who has to go deal with the flowers on the plants. Stopping kids from dealing with certain equipment, hazardous materials, and otherwise is good practice, but not dealing with the larger issue at hand on certain job sites is ignoring a far larger issue.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44838049]Stopping kids from dealing with certain equipment, hazardous materials, and otherwise is good practice, but not dealing with the larger issue at hand on certain job sites is ignoring a far larger issue.[/QUOTE] this doesn't make much sense tbh are you saying that green tobacco sickness is a bigger deal than using potentially deadly heavy machinery

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44838049]I am more gearing my comments at that using child labor in any sort of agriculture is bad in practice, and the current set of laws are fucking stupid for how they allow children to work on farmland just because it's family operated over company operated. [/QUOTE] Why? If a kid can SAFELY work, wants to, and their parents consent, why can't he have a small job so he can buy that new video game that came out?

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44837900]So what's the difference? Both are producing something that's highly addictive and pesticide ridden, both have sub-par working conditions, and both have child labor. This is sorta my beef with anything regarding child labor laws. It's either across the board or it's done in such a terrible way that you may as well not have the laws in the first place. Lot of the farming communities in the Midwest play this bullshit of, "it's a family farm" "the kids are just helping their parents" blah blah. The principles of a family farm are not dated, but the concept that theirs any difference between family farms and industrial enterprises, is utter crap. Both aim to make money, both aim to exploit child labor laws, both usually do not give a payroll to teenage workers thanks to loopholes within the system. This can also be shot at several other industries which I cannot even begin to start naming, but current child labor laws do not make sense. Just regulate across the board, [B]"YOU CANNOT WORK UNTIL YOU ARE 13 OR 14" and disallow teenagers from working during their school years if it shows to have a negative impact on their capability to learn in school.[/B][/QUOTE] I completely disagree with this. I think that kids benefit from taking part in the family business/trade, and I think that making it illegal would be robbing children of their best chance to gain marketable skills and abilities early in life. If the people who are having their kids work in these fields aren't doing it responsibly, then they are venturing into the realm of neglect or abuse and we already have well defined laws to deal with that. Failing to provide protective clothing, or allowing them to work more than 4 hours a day is irresponsible and in some cases it's downright criminal. There is nothing wrong with a 12 year old doing a little hard work in the field, but it's the parents responsibility to make sure that they are safe and comfortable.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;44838057]this doesn't make much sense tbh are you saying that green tobacco sickness is a bigger deal than using potentially deadly heavy machinery[/QUOTE] Basically, when you go out to deal with the flowers on top of tobacco plants, you have to pick them by hand, and expose yourself to tobacco leafs that are covered in dew. Without a rain coat or other water-proofing clothing, you'll get saturated within a few minutes of working in the field, and be bombarded by nicotine. [quote]Green tobacco sickness (GTS) is an illness resulting from dermal exposure to dissolved nicotine from wet tobacco leaves; it is characterized by nausea, vomiting, weakness, and dizziness and sometimes fluctuations in blood pressure or heart rate (1-3). On September 14, 1992, the Occupational Health Nurses in Agricultural Communities (OHNAC) project of Kentucky * received reports of 27 cases of GTS. The cases occurred among tobacco harvesters who had sought treatment in several hospital emergency departments in south-central Kentucky during the preceding 2 weeks. This report summarizes the findings of the investigation of these cases. On September 15, OHNAC staff initiated a review of inpatient and emergency department medical records from May 1 through October 2 at five hospitals in the Bowling Green and Elizabethtown areas. The review identified 55 persons in whom GTS, nicotine poisoning, or other illnesses compatible with GTS symptomatology had been diagnosed. On September 25, industrial hygienists from CDC's National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) observed the tobacco-harvesting process. Worker's hands, forearms, thighs, and backs received the most dermal exposure to wet tobacco. Dew from tobacco leaves often saturated workers' clothing within minutes of beginning field work. To evaluate possible risk factors associated with GTS, NIOSH investigators and occupational health nurses from the OHNAC project conducted a case-control study. A case was defined as an emergency department diagnosis of GTS or nicotine poisoning in a person whose recorded work history included tobacco harvesting at the time of illness. Forty-nine persons met the case definition, with episodes occurring from July 25 through September 19, 1992; two cases were subsequently excluded from analysis because illness onset coincided with exposure to pesticides (which can induce similar symptoms). Median age of the 47 case-patients was 29 years (range: 14-54 years); 41 (87%) were male. Controls were 83 asymptomatic tobacco harvesters referred by case-patients or local agricultural extension agents. Their median age was 39 years (range: 16-70 years); 72 (87%) were male. Twelve (26%) case-patients were hospitalized for 1-2 days; of these, two (4%) required intensive-care treatment for hypotension and bradycardia. All case-patients were initially treated in emergency departments with antiemetic drugs, and 35 (74%) received intravenous fluids. Forty of 47 case-patients and 83 controls were administered a questionnaire by telephone. Respondents were asked about the types of jobs performed during the tobacco growing season, use of protective clothing, exposure to wet tobacco leaves, work in wet clothing, work duration, and personal tobacco use. Among the 40 case-patients who completed interviews, the median time from starting work to onset of illness was 10 hours (range: 3-17 hours); most frequently reported symptoms included weakness (100%), nausea (98%), vomiting (91%), dizziness (91%), abdominal cramps (70%), headache (60%), and difficulty breathing (60%). The mean duration of illness was 2.4 days. Thirty-six (90%) had previous work experience with tobacco. Of these, 14 (39%) had previously sought medical care for symptoms suggestive of GTS. Seventeen (85%) of 20 case-patients aged greater than or equal to 30 years attributed their illness to working in wet tobacco, compared with 12 (60%) case-patients aged less than 30 years. Age less than 30 years was a risk factor for illness (odds ratio {OR}=3.1; 95% confidence interval {CI}=1.4-7.0). All case-patients and 69 (83%) controls had worked in fields of wet tobacco where their clothes became wet (OR=infinite; lower confidence limit=1.8). Current use of personal tobacco products (i.e., cigarettes, snuff, chewing tobacco, pipe, or cigars) appeared to be weakly protective, but the estimate was not statistically significant (OR=0.7; 95% CI=0.3-1.5). Sex and work duration (i.e., number of hours per day or number of days per week) were not associated with illness. The reported use of protective clothing was similar for case-patients and controls; for case-patients and controls combined, reported use of protective items worn at least once during the growing season was 5% for waterproof clothing and 32% for gloves.[/quote] GTS will put these kids on their asses if they don't wear protective clothing to deal with wet tobacco.

[QUOTE=frozensoda;44838086]I completely disagree with this. I think that kids benefit from taking part in the family business/trade, and I think that making it illegal would be robbing children of their best chance to gain marketable skills and abilities early in life.[/QUOTE] If it's something like farming, so long as standards are in place, I find it reasonable so long as they're not utterly forced into it. Some other trades could be potentially more risky, however...

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44838084]Why? If a kid can SAFELY work, wants to, and their parents consent, why can't he have a small job so he can buy that new video game that came out?[/QUOTE] that sounds fine except 'With their parent's permission, children as young as 12 can be hired for unlimited hours outside of school hours on a farm of any size.' unless that has like, hours for homework that count as school hours i think that should change

[QUOTE=RikohZX;44838108]If it's something like farming, so long as standards are in place, I find it reasonable so long as they're not utterly forced into it. Some other trades could be potentially more risky, however...[/QUOTE] Yeah, I didn't mean to give the impression that I want a 6 year old with a welder lol. I just mean that it seems like JoeSkylynx would like to make it illegal for any kind of labour on a farm to be done before the age of 13 or 14, and I think that's a really bad idea.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;44838113]that sounds fine except 'With their parent's permission, children as young as 12 can be hired for unlimited hours outside of school hours on a farm of any size.' unless that has like, hours for homework that count as school hours i think that should change[/QUOTE] Well it's the parents responsibility to be aware of this and talk to the employer about this, and force them to quit if necessary.

I have a reason for that. It's more-or-less related to the Amish communities and wood workshops. Kids are allowed to work so long as they have completed middle school, and the reason for this is to ensure they have basic skills so that if they were to fall behind in school and drop out, they can still get a GED later down the road.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44838101]Basically, when you go out to deal with the flowers on top of tobacco plants, you have to pick them by hand, and expose yourself to tobacco leafs that are covered in dew. Without a rain coat or other water-proofing clothing, you'll get saturated within a few minutes of working in the field, and be bombarded by nicotine. GTS will put these kids on their asses if they don't wear protective clothing to deal with wet tobacco.[/QUOTE] i'm not saying it's not an issue i'm saying something that has a mean duration of about 3 days is objectively less dangerous than the constant use of heavy machinery by children which has the potential to result in catastrophic life changing injuries you said that "not dealing with the larger issue at hand is a larger issue" illustrating that this is a larger issue than not using heavy machinery. that's just a flat out silly statement. a company permitted to have children working heavy machinery most likely would lol. that's much more serious and dangerous than the disease.

Yeah they probably would have a thirteen year old on a bulldozer if they could. :v: I just want to see that farmers actually get adequate protection from things like GTS, moreso with child harvesters which as stated by the HRW, something around 79% report GTS symptoms.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44838138]Well it's the parents responsibility to be aware of this and talk to the employer about this, and force them to quit if necessary.[/QUOTE] but the parent themselves could be the employer? i think it would just be better to add a couple extra hours to the school hours and say this is homework time