[QUOTE]Think you’ll be making top dollar with that Harvard diploma hanging on your wall? Sure, the Cambridge, Mass. university topped U.S. News & World Report’s annual list of the best colleges in the nation (again), and is third best in the world according to the QS World University Rankings. [B]But no matter how many accolades Harvard rakes in or how much praise it garners, its graduates are paling in comparison to their peers at lesser institutions in one crucial field: starting salary. It’s a list on which Harvard ranks #37.[/B]
If money is your object, skip the liberal arts degree from the country’s oldest college and instead look toward a degree from a specialty university. Though the career options might not thrill you, the salaries certainly will. Take, for example, under-the-radar institutions like Loma Linda University near San Bernardino, Calif., or the South Dakota School of Mining and Technology (SDSMT) in Rapid City, S.D. According to a survey by PayScale, Loma Linda grads average salary after graduation is $64,600, thanks to a smattering of degrees in lucrative medical fields including dental and nursing assistants.
The 2,300 students graduating with a SDSMT diploma this year will earn an average of $56,700. That highly coveted Harvard degree, on the other hand, will net new grads a median salary of $54,100. Though their Cambridge peers scored nearly double on the SATs, the SDSMT students score bigger paychecks thanks to far more opportunities available in computer science or engineering fields that the school caters to.
SDSMT students find opportunities with multinational employers like Halliburton and Caterpillar, according to PayScale’s survey, which the company has conducted annually for the past eight years. Katie Bardaro, Payscale’s lead economist, told ABC News that the highest-ranking colleges tend to be those that concentrate on engineering, nursing and health sciences. Indeed, both the Colorado School of Mines and the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology will net you a higher salary immediately after graduation than Harvard.
Especially at a time when students are drowning in debt and face massive loan payments falling due just months after graduation, it can’t hurt to pad the piggybank with your first job. Of course, the earnings comparison equals out within a few years, as Harvard grads tend to command higher salaries toward the middle of their careers. (PayScale’s starting salary number was gathered from graduates who had fewer than five years of experience and had graduated with only a bachelor’s degree in their chosen fields.)
But those looking to truly make the most of their education should look past Harvard and down the Charles River: the school that boasts the highest pay in the U.S. for recent graduates is the nearby Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
[/quote]
Source: [url]http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/22/the-school-ranking-list-harvard-doesnt-top/?hpt=hp_t3[/url]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37779244]Source: [url]http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/22/the-school-ranking-list-harvard-doesnt-top/?hpt=hp_t3[/url][/QUOTE]
Doesn't surprise me much that MIT has the highest pay for recent grads. I am surprised that Harvard is so low.
It's not even really about the prestige of the school, it's about how useful your major is. Of course someone who graduates MIT with an engineering degree is going to get a higher starting salary than someone who majors in philosophy at Harvard.
[QUOTE=yumyumshisha;37779685]It's not even really about the prestige of the school, it's about how useful your major is. Of course someone who graduates MIT with an engineering degree is going to get a higher starting salary than someone who majors in philosophy at Harvard.[/QUOTE]
I know someone graduating with a philosophy degree at Harvard right now actually...
What a shame to waste so much...
[QUOTE=Squad;37779708]I know someone graduating with a philosophy degree at Harvard right now actually...
What a shame to waste so much...[/QUOTE]
it depends on what they do with it
i wouldn't judge the "value" of a degree solely on the starting salary of the first entry-level position a graduate attains. frankly, a degree's value is only worth what the recipient thinks it is - i'll certainly value my arts degree far more than a bachelor of engineering, because i care infinitely more about what i'm learning now then about engineering.
[QUOTE=Squad;37779708]I know someone graduating with a philosophy degree at Harvard right now actually...
What a shame to waste so much...[/QUOTE]
It isn't really a waste if that is what you want to do.
[QUOTE=Squad;37779708]I know someone graduating with a philosophy degree at Harvard right now actually...
What a shame to waste so much...[/QUOTE]
philosophy is a damn good degree even if for some buttfucking stupid reason you think college should be job training that your employer won't pay for
[QUOTE=Squad;37779708]I know someone graduating with a philosophy degree at Harvard right now actually...
What a shame to waste so much...[/QUOTE]
I would be glad they're studying what they're passionate about, after all that's what education [I]should[/I] be about.
[QUOTE=yumyumshisha;37779685]It's not even really about the prestige of the school, it's about how useful your major is. Of course someone who graduates MIT with an engineering degree is going to get a higher starting salary than someone who majors in philosophy at Harvard.[/QUOTE]
Heh, someone should tell that to students who go to Rutgers University. I've yet to meet a student there that isn't going for "the prestige of the Rutgers name".
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;37779772]Heh, someone should tell that to students who go to Rutgers University. I've yet to meet a student there that isn't going for "the prestige of the Rutgers name".[/QUOTE]
I know a lot of people who go for the communiversity program.
The distribution of the campuses makes it easy for people to attend if they can't afford to live away from home or on campus.
[QUOTE=Megafan;37779758]I would be glad they're studying what they're passionate about, after all that's what education [I]should[/I] be about.[/QUOTE]
You have to control your passions and direct them towards productivity though, especially with fields such as philosophy. It seems misguided to spend a ton of money on something with few prospects. I agree that education should be about passion, but not when it's going to cost you 200k and is something that you can attempt teaching yourself.
[quote]You have to control your passions and direct them towards productivity though[/quote]
i thought you were a fan of the ~free market~?
[QUOTE=Strider*;37780262]You have to control your passions and direct them towards productivity though, especially with fields such as philosophy. It seems misguided to spend a ton of money on something with few prospects. I agree that education should be about passion, but not when it's going to cost you 200k and is something that you can attempt teaching yourself.[/QUOTE]
The analytic skills taught in philosophy courses are invaluable to many other fields than just philosophy.
I honestly cannot think of any major that is so extremely limited to one type of job.
[QUOTE=thisispain;37780378]i thought you were a fan of the ~free market~?[/QUOTE]
How does my statement have anything to do with the free market?
People can choose whatever degree they want, philosophy is just dangerous unless you're planning on law school. If I recall correctly they score the highest on the LSAT by undergrad.
judging people's degrees based on an arbitrary "productive"-ness
what's important is supply and demand, and there is a great demand for philosophy majors. of course if you don't care about philosophy you won't get a job but that's probably true of most majors.
law, medicine, teaching, journalism, business (many businesses hire philosophy experts), politics.
but the bottom line is, you're not supposed to get a philosophy degree for the money.
[QUOTE=Tigster;37779611]Doesn't surprise me much that MIT has the highest pay for recent grads. I am surprised that Harvard is so low.[/QUOTE]
I can see their MIT education really pays for itself
[QUOTE=thisispain;37780592]and there is a great demand for philosophy majors[/QUOTE]
Are you joking or delusional?
[editline]23rd September 2012[/editline]
Philosophy is a great degree if you're planning on furthering your education through law or medical school. But I don't think many employers are looking for philosophy undergraduates.
employers aren't looking for anyone with a particular undergraduate degree anyway.
but say you apply for HR or PR in a business. that philosophy degree will give you an edge.
Do what you love.
There, now money is irrelevant.
Uh accounting, engineering, finance, architecture? These all strike me as undergraduates that employers are typically looking for in particular and that will also start at higher salaries than philosophy majors.
Philosophy majors are valuable for different reasons, just don't try to pretend job security or prospects is one of them. If you're willing to take the risk with a philosophy major go for it.
If I were a philosophy major I'd want to contribute to the field through teaching or writing anyways.
when I was a kid I wanted to be an MIT graduate only just because gordon freeman was one.
I also wanted to be an archaeologist because Indiana Jones.
Now I don't even think I am going to go to college anymore, there is nothing that I am really interested in or capable of doing. I want to get into music but I don't really think a college music degree applies to what I am capable of and what I want to do, I dunno what I am really going to do with my life. I should probably stop being lazy and start venturing into things though.
[QUOTE=Groat;37780853]Do what you love.
There, now money is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://blog.muchmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Kanye-West.jpg[/img]
"Having money's not everything not having it is"
[QUOTE=thisispain;37780824]employers aren't looking for anyone with a particular undergraduate degree anyway.
[/QUOTE]
You are wrong. So wrong. Unless you want to limit yourself to working in restaurants, retail, or a handful of other low-paying jobs in markets saturated with unskilled labor, you're going to need at least a bachelors degree in something useful.
[QUOTE=thisispain;37780824]
but say you apply for HR or PR in a business. that philosophy degree will give you an edge.[/QUOTE]
How exactly does a philosophy degree give you an edge in HR or PR?
Where are you getting this crazy information?
most people don't end up working in the exact field they study from anyway. no-one degree is the secret to having a job. having an engineering degree isn't an edge over a philosophy degree if you're applying for an office job.
[quote]How exactly does a philosophy degree give you an edge in HR or PR?[/quote]
how does humanities give you an edge in public or human relations?
[url]http://web.phil.ufl.edu/ugrad/ugcrhbk.html[/url]
[QUOTE=thisispain;37781050]most people don't end up working in the exact field they study from anyway. [/QUOTE]
Can you back this up? Sounds like tripe to me.
[QUOTE=thisispain;37781050]no-one degree is the secret to having a job. having an engineering degree isn't an edge over a philosophy degree if you're applying for an office job. [/QUOTE]
Actually, having a degree in a specific field is almost always necessary to work professionally in it (talking about engineering, science, medical, law, and any other mid-to-high skill level job). Not sure what you mean by "office job" but even administrative assistants (secretaries) usually need degrees now as a competitive advantage.
[QUOTE=thisispain;37781050]how does humanities give you an edge in public or human relations?
[url]http://web.phil.ufl.edu/ugrad/ugcrhbk.html[/url][/QUOTE]
That's the liberal arts perspective on education which is nice and all, but for those of us living in the real world you're going to need a degree with a bit more substance than philosophy.
[QUOTE=ChristopherB;37781138]Can you back this up? Sounds like tripe to me.[/QUOTE]
not only are [url=http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/one-in-two-new-college-graduates-i-jobless-or-underemployed/]one in two college graduates jobless or underemployed[/url]
but this study shows the breakdown per degree:
[url]http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/Unemployment.Final.update1.pdf[/url]
40% of graduates end up with jobs not requiring degrees
[url]http://www.mlive.com/jobs/index.ssf/2011/05/40_percent_of_college_grads_end_up_settl.html[/url]
this has tons more info on how education affects people after graduation
[url]http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/index.asp[/url]
[QUOTE=ChristopherB;37781138]but even administrative assistants (secretaries) usually need degrees now as a competitive advantage.[/QUOTE]
yes, degrees such as: philosophy. it certainly stands out more than a business or communications degree.
[QUOTE=ChristopherB;37781138]That's the liberal arts perspective on education which is nice and all, but for those of us living in the real world you're going to need a degree with a bit more substance than philosophy.[/QUOTE]
hmm well i can see that obviously you already have a strong opinion about liberal arts, and no matter what anyone says you'll be convinced that you live in "the real world".
hi. stem major here. i claim to be scientific and live in "the real world" but i also at the same time think "everyone should do these 4 degrees and nothing else, then everyone will have good jobs" is a viable thing to say
[editline]24th September 2012[/editline]
also trying to predict the job market in 4-6 years is A Bad Idea.
[QUOTE=thisispain;37781226]not only are [url=http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/one-in-two-new-college-graduates-i-jobless-or-underemployed/]one in two college graduates jobless or underemployed[/url]
but this study shows the breakdown per degree:
[url]http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/Unemployment.Final.update1.pdf[/url]
40% of graduates end up with jobs not requiring degrees
[url]http://www.mlive.com/jobs/index.ssf/2011/05/40_percent_of_college_grads_end_up_settl.html[/url]
this has tons more info on how education affects people after graduation
[url]http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/index.asp[/url]
yes, degrees such as: philosophy. it certainly stands out more than a business or communications degree.
hmm well i can see that obviously you already have a strong opinion about liberal arts, and no matter what anyone says you'll be convinced that you live in "the real world".[/QUOTE]
It's worth clarifying that I'm not suggesting having a bachelors degree in just [I]anything[/I] is smart move; three of your sources reinforce the fact that you have to be smart about which major(s) you choose. Your George town link supports the idea that getting a degree in one of the liberal arts is a terrible idea; look at those unemployment rates! And that doesn't even consider how many of those English and Psychology majors are working unrelated, undesirable positions.
I don't hate the idea of a liberal arts education, in principle it sounds great; fostering creative, open minds is a noble goal. What I don't agree with is the way liberal arts institutions sell their programs (degrees) as if they were equivalent to other degrees. They take advantage of students by making them think a degree in the arts will prepare them for a wide-array of jobs. That is a deception at its worst. If they were offering a degree in serving coffee or flipping burger patties then at least I could give them credit for being honest.
A philosophy degree will make you stand out, but not in the positive way you are imagining. What fool would choose a candidate with a philosophy degree over one with a degree specific to the field in question? Business and communications degrees aren't worth much either but they are certainly an improvement over something generic from the liberal arts.
[QUOTE=thisispain;37780378]i thought you were a fan of the ~free market~?[/QUOTE]
Only for companies and the rich.
Poor people and students better bend over.
[QUOTE=ChristopherB;37781360]It's worth clarifying that I'm not suggesting having a bachelors degree in just [I]anything[/I] is smart move; three of your sources reinforce the fact that you have to be smart about which major(s) you choose. Your George town link supports the idea that getting a degree in one of the liberal arts is a terrible idea; look at those unemployment rates! And that doesn't even consider how many of those English and Psychology majors are working unrelated, undesirable positions.
I don't hate the idea of a liberal arts education, in principle it sounds great; fostering creative, open minds is a noble goal. What I don't agree with is the way liberal arts institutions sell their programs (degrees) as if they were equivalent to other degrees. They take advantage of students by making them think a degree in the arts will prepare them for a wide-array of jobs. That is a deception at its worst. If they were offering a degree in serving coffee or flipping burger patties then at least I could give them credit for being honest.
A philosophy degree will make you stand out, but not in the positive way you are imagining. What fool would choose a candidate with a philosophy degree over one with a degree specific to the field in question? Business and communications degrees aren't worth much either but they are certainly an improvement over something generic from the liberal arts.[/QUOTE]
because not every career in the world has "a degree"
if i'm going for a media internship they're going to care a lot more about the guy with the arts degree than the guy with an engineering degree. yes it's true that some career fields have a set degree and thus the focus would be on that, but there ISN'T always a degree specific to the field in question. THIS is what arts degrees are for - they give you the skills/knowledge needed to tackle a wide range of present and future careers, rather than just prepare you to do one job (like a bachelor of petroleum engineering would do).
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