He really miss the point of the entire game. The developer didn't have a mindset that "bigger=better", they were aware about what they were making and use the narrative and gameplay to tell the story to the player. People expected this game to be an enhance version of Hotline Miami 1, only to turned out to be an unsatisfied experience from start to finish so the developers can prove a point about the media culture and violence.
The inclusion of 'The Fans' was because of this thinking. It's a great game, the first just edges it for me.
Also, people need to stop taking video games so fucking seriously. Enjoy it or don't. Stop making such presumptuous analysis videos like this.
I agree with the video 100%. The "story" was just a bunch of different characters doing I don't know what in a convoluted clusterfuck that doesn't go anywhere and the gameplay (while adding some cool new stuff) has shit level design that just adds twice as many enemies and way too many open spaces where you constantly get shot from off screen. Also, door bugs galore on PC version too.
[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;47395980]I agree with the video 100%. The "story" was just a bunch of different characters doing I don't know what in a convoluted clusterfuck that doesn't go anywhere and the gameplay (while adding some cool new stuff) has shit level design that just adds twice as many enemies and way too many open spaces where you constantly get shot from off screen. Also, door bugs galore on PC version too.[/QUOTE]
At first I thought the story was utterly incoherent madness but having completed it, it's actually a very tight narrative. There are so many connections that I wouldn't have even made if it wasn't for the help of the internet.
[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;47395980]I agree with the video 100%. The "story" was just a bunch of different characters doing I don't know what in a convoluted clusterfuck that doesn't go anywhere and the gameplay (while adding some cool new stuff) has shit level design that just adds twice as many enemies and way too many open spaces where you constantly get shot from off screen. Also, door bugs galore on PC version too.[/QUOTE]
the story makes complete sense given that the whole point of the sequel was to tie up any loose ends which it did completely. The main thing that pissed me off with hotline2 was the focus on more guns and much more open and bigger maps. Nothing is fun about a massive level scattered with enemies that can see you farther than your screen with a laser gun. One small step at any point and you have to start ALL OVER AGAIN.
Narratively, Hotline Miami 2 is beautiful and an wonderfully woven/clusterfuck of many narratives.
Unfortunately, it's just not that much fun to play compared to the first and it absolutely shits over the aspects that made the first one fun by turning it into a very ham-fisted, laundry-list, linear trial and error nightmare. That's what happens when you take a tight, fast, and fluid game designed for really compact areas with lots of rooms and foresight, and then make it about levels full of huge rooms and corridors where everyone has guns and can see you out of your own maximum line-of-sight.
[QUOTE=gunguy765;47395946]He really miss the point of the entire game. The developer didn't have a mindset that "bigger=better", they were aware about what they were making and use the narrative and gameplay to tell the story to the player. People expected this game to be an enhance version of Hotline Miami 1, only to turned out to be an unsatisfied experience from start to finish so the developers can prove a point about the media culture and violence.[/QUOTE]
except that means you're left with a game that isn't as fun as it could be
why is that supposed to be a good thing
[QUOTE=gunguy765;47395946]He really miss the point of the entire game. The developer didn't have a mindset that "bigger=better", they were aware about what they were making and use the narrative and gameplay to tell the story to the player. People expected this game to be an enhance version of Hotline Miami 1, only to turned out to be an unsatisfied experience from start to finish so the developers can prove a point about the media culture and violence.[/QUOTE]
Saying "the game sucks on purpose" doesn't make it suck any less
[QUOTE=gunguy765;47395946]He really miss the point of the entire game. The developer didn't have a mindset that "bigger=better", they were aware about what they were making and use the narrative and gameplay to tell the story to the player. People expected this game to be an enhance version of Hotline Miami 1, only to turned out to be an unsatisfied experience from start to finish so the developers can prove a point about the media culture and violence.[/QUOTE]
The level design inh HLM2 sucked. HLM1 worked because segments were short - it promoted wreckless violence. if you died, you were set 2~ minutes back max.
HLM2 has segments the size of entire chapters from HLM1. If you die, you can lose like 10 minutes of progress. That promotes wall camping and corner shooting rather than wreckless, speedy murder.
Oh boy, another reviewer who thinks the story and the ending is bad, and that it didn't give any "closure".
The game gave closure on like 96% of the HLM universe events, if you don't pay attention to anything that's happening and refuse to think and make connections for a little bit, don't even bother calling the story an incomprehensible clusterfuck, it's not for you. Just continue blindly slaughtering everyone, that's a good point made by developers too.
[QUOTE=Dermock;47397377]The level design inh HLM2 sucked. HLM1 worked because segments were short - it promoted wreckless violence. if you died, you were set 2~ minutes back max.
HLM2 has segments the size of entire chapters from HLM1. If you die, you can lose like 10 minutes of progress. That promotes wall camping and corner shooting rather than wreckless, speedy murder.[/QUOTE]
That's depressing to hear. I was a really big fan of the first and was excited for the sequal, but I probably shouldn't be it seems.
[QUOTE=Dermock;47397377]The level design inh HLM2 sucked. HLM1 worked because segments were short - it promoted wreckless violence. if you died, you were set 2~ minutes back max.
HLM2 has segments the size of entire chapters from HLM1. If you die, you can lose like 10 minutes of progress. That promotes wall camping and corner shooting rather than wreckless, speedy murder.[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with this. Some levels can be done very quickly if you know the game, even levels like the docks or Hawaii.
I mean, that's the only way to get an A+/S ranking is to make a massive map-wide combo
[QUOTE=gunguy765;47395946]He really miss the point of the entire game. The developer didn't have a mindset that "bigger=better", they were aware about what they were making and use the narrative and gameplay to tell the story to the player. People expected this game to be an enhance version of Hotline Miami 1, only to turned out to be an unsatisfied experience from start to finish so the developers can prove a point about the media culture and violence.[/QUOTE]
so you're saying i was sold an intentionally crappy game for £12? i doubt dennaton would much appreciate the implications this excuse has towards their reputation. hm2 might not be good but dennaton are still cool guys, they wouldn't sell something they knew was half-assed and badly designed. that would just be WarZ levels of slime
[QUOTE=shadow_oap;47407857]That's depressing to hear. I was a really big fan of the first and was excited for the sequal, but I probably shouldn't be it seems.[/QUOTE]
Dont listen to him, he acts like HM2 developers killed his chicken. The game was never supposed to be easy at the beginning.
[QUOTE=LaTrefle;47412968]Dont listen to him, he acts like HM2 developers killed his chicken. The game was never supposed to be easy at the beginning.[/QUOTE]
It's generally agreed that, story aside due to how opinionated anything can be for it, Hotline Miami 2 is very hit or miss in regards to being a sequel. Mostly due to the level design having enemies often out of your sight range even with Shift, windows and big guys everywhere, and at times so many enemies and asshole chokepoints that you're absolutely forced to use guns or be stuck - which can be a problem on the [sp]Hawaii[/sp] levels due to the conservation required. Hard Mode chopping all picked up gun's ammo in half doesn't help the gun problem whatsoever.
It's really hard to list good points when, besides some of the character gimmicks, the main good points about the game (like the presentation, the music, the feel of really nailing a level and tearing right through it) are basically the same points as with the first game.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;47413404]It's generally agreed that, story aside due to how opinionated anything can be for it, Hotline Miami 2 is very hit or miss in regards to being a sequel. Mostly due to the level design having enemies often out of your sight range even with Shift, windows and big guys everywhere, and at times so many enemies and asshole chokepoints that you're absolutely forced to use guns or be stuck - which can be a problem on the [sp]Hawaii[/sp] levels due to the conservation required. Hard Mode chopping all picked up gun's ammo in half doesn't help the gun problem whatsoever.
It's really hard to list good points when, besides some of the character gimmicks, the main good points about the game (like the presentation, the music, the feel of really nailing a level and tearing right through it) are basically the same points as with the first game.[/QUOTE]
Whats with you guys always talking about how you cant see enemies or how theres windows and big guys everywhere? I never had a problem after a good 3 minutes of trying and failing. The enemies' location isnt dynamic, they dont spawn randomly, you get a formation going after awhile. The same formation that lets you finish the [sp]Tony level in the skyscraper[/sp]
[editline]28th March 2015[/editline]
Besides peeking doesnt always work considering bullets dont penetrate.
I finished this game just a week ago. I completely love it.
The story is presented perfectly and I felt like it had a huge payoff.
i can agree with the level design, doors, and the window weakshots
sometimes the levels are too long to the point where i [I]have[/I] to try bottle necking, but i'm sure after a couple play throughs and a dozen deaths, i know where is what and how to recklessly kill stuff
though, that is some of the best aspects of the game; a player can have it all planned out, and one fuck-up or a failed timing of moves will be another death.
TBH I didn't really have a problem with the story, my main criticism was more related to the greater (to the point of annoying) emphasis on guns, bigger maps (which meant you'd get sniped by eneies you couldn't spot) and the more linear layout of the maps. Seriously, playing peakaboo with every Mike Tyson clone (those big motherfuckers who don't die unless you shoot them) gets old pretty fast.
Basically, from what I've gathered and from what I've played on my own, the team was great at weaving together a story, but forgot what made the original level design so great- in the end, the game isn't bad, just not as good as we had hoped.
Can't be too dissapointed though- we get a level editor soon, so we can make our own levels that don't have as much of a bullshit as this game's levels do. (though that doesn't excuse the original levels)
[QUOTE=Magikoopa24;47414377]Basically, from what I've gathered and from what I've played on my own, the team was great at weaving together a story, but forgot what made the original level design so great- in the end, the game isn't bad, just not as good as we had hoped.[/QUOTE]
Actually, there was an interview where they said they purposefully changed the level design to be different from Hotline Miami 1 because they didn't want to repeat themselves
The only problem I had with the story was that I didn't understand it was an alternate universe WW3 scenario. As soon as I understood that and the Hawaii conflict, the rest sort of came together.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;47415409]Actually, there was an interview where they said they purposefully changed the level design to be different from Hotline Miami 1 because they didn't want to repeat themselves[/QUOTE]
that's really my problem with the game's ethos in general tbh. it feels like they made big compromises on gameplay quality just to make hm2 different, it kind of gives the impression that they didn't really know why the first one played so well. or maybe they did know but they just felt under some kind of pressure to change it regardless of the consequence? i guess maybe it ties into a story theme about not playing Jacket or whatever, but i really don't like to think that the gameplay getting worse was supposed to be part of that.
[QUOTE=LaTrefle;47413576]Whats with you guys always talking about how you cant see enemies or how theres windows and big guys everywhere? I never had a problem after a good 3 minutes of trying and failing. [B]The enemies' location isnt dynamic, they dont spawn randomly[/B], you get a formation going after awhile. The same formation that lets you finish the [sp]Tony level in the skyscraper[/sp]
[editline]28th March 2015[/editline]
Besides peeking doesnt always work considering bullets dont penetrate.[/QUOTE]
Their starting location isn't dynamic, but the AI's inconsistent enough that they can end up in different spots before you reach them. And yes, the AI is inconsistent, I tested that in the level where [sp]Richter breaks out of jail, in the room just after you get a police uniform. I walked straight down several times, without touching anything other than the S key, and the crazed prisoner that's to the left just past a window didn't always go after me[/sp]
[QUOTE=cdBiohazard;47406128]Oh boy, another reviewer who thinks the story and the ending is bad, and that it didn't give any "closure".
The game gave closure on like 96% of the HLM universe events, if you don't pay attention to anything that's happening and refuse to think and make connections for a little bit, don't even bother calling the story an incomprehensible clusterfuck, it's not for you. Just continue blindly slaughtering everyone, that's a good point made by developers too.[/QUOTE]
Honestly the only thing that felt unanswered was [sp] what happened to Richard (Jacket) after the nuking of San Francisco. You never see him in the bar. Also, what drove the General to kill the American and Soviet diplomats.[/sp]
[sp]Well the colonel clearly had PTSD, I assume it just had to do with that.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;47415845]Honestly the only thing that felt unanswered was [sp] what happened to Richard (Jacket) after the nuking of San Francisco. You never see him in the bar. Also, what drove the General to kill the American and Soviet diplomats.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]Jacket was in Miami presumably, on the phone with Beard by keeping in contact with him right before the first nuke killed Beard. And the General was possibly in charge of if not the founder of 50 Blessings, especially thanks to the 50B logo in his room right before his insanity speech; the implication is that he and 50 Blessings killed the Presidents of Russia and America due to the ceasefire and peace treaty they were signing because America was being 'cowardly' for bowing down to Russia over the nuking.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;47396294]At first I thought the story was utterly incoherent madness but having completed it, it's actually a very tight narrative. There are so many connections that I wouldn't have even made if it wasn't for the help of the internet.[/QUOTE]
It's not that the story wasn't well written, It's just that it didn't really have a central protagonist like the first, and introduced, then killed off so many characters that it was hard to really get interested in any of their stories. I'm sure if I looked into it I could find out how all the stories tie together, but that's the problem: I don't care enough about the characters to do extra research. HM1 was great because it kept things simple. 2 Protagonists, no jumping back and forth in time, Their stories were easy to follow just through the brief scenes between missions, and because of that you actually cared about them.
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