[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26693318[/url]
[quote]Pope Francis has launched a stinging attack on the mafia, warning gangsters that they will go to hell unless they repent and stop doing evil.
"Blood-stained money, blood-stained power, you can't bring it with you to your next life. Repent," he said.
He was speaking at a prayer vigil for relatives of those killed by the mafia.
The Pope has spoken out frequently about the evils of corruption and wrote a booklet on the subject in 2005 when he was archbishop of Buenos Aires.[/quote]
Breaking news: Pope found murdered with fingers missing :v:
first the pope says the f word and now he said H-E double hockey sticks???!
seriously this guy needs to be impeached wow
Why do I smell the plot to The Godfather part III here?
[QUOTE=Trogdon;44315564]first the pope says the f word and now he said H-E double hockey sticks???!
seriously this guy needs to be impeached wow[/QUOTE]
yeah. what the h*ck.
The Francis Family has now thrown down the gauntlet on the Sicilian Mafia.
This just in, St. Peter's Basilica was firebombed, possible revenge for the crucifixion of two suspected Capos.
[QUOTE=geogzm;44315548]Breaking news: Pope found murdered with fingers missing :v:[/QUOTE]
HAHAHAHAHA
He says they'll go to hell unless they repent. At least he is still offering the option for forgiveness.
[QUOTE=redBadger;44315699]He says they'll go to hell unless they repent. At least he is still offering the option for forgiveness.[/QUOTE]
That's literally the entire point of Christianity, that no one is beyond saving.
So now the mafia is right up next to condom users in the line to hell.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44315745]That's literally the entire point of Christianity, that no one is beyond saving.[/QUOTE]
Except Lucifer. Apparently bringing knowledge and reason to an entire race is a no-no.
Someone will send a fish to the pope.
[QUOTE=Forumaster;44315883]Except Lucifer. Apparently bringing knowledge and reason to an entire race is a no-no.[/QUOTE]
Lucifer and the snake were (likely) different characters since most biblical scholars don't seem willing to say that either one is Satan
I think Lucifer is just an angel that rebelled against god, but didn't become the devil, Satan is just a personification of evil, and the talking snake was just literally a snake that talked because the bible was silly like that
He should say the same thing about cartels and that Jesus Malverde is not a saint
[QUOTE=Zeke129;44316356]Lucifer and the snake were (likely) different characters since most biblical scholars don't seem willing to say that either one is Satan
I think Lucifer is just an angel that rebelled against god, but didn't become the devil, Satan is just a personification of evil, and the talking snake was just literally a snake that talked because the bible was silly like that[/QUOTE]
Just a little bit of completely unscientific posturing here... Adam and Eve would have been the only two people on earth in the Biblical creation story. Eventually, you can assume they'd go just a little bit crazy. Maybe to the point of, I don't know, hearing snakes talk?
After all, they'd have nobody to blame for their sin but themselves. Snake's just a convenient scapegoat.
Considering there's like four sentences that describe that whole shenanigan, I'd say it's entirely open to interpretation.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;44316356]Lucifer and the snake were (likely) different characters since most biblical scholars don't seem willing to say that either one is Satan
I think Lucifer is just an angel that rebelled against god, but didn't become the devil, Satan is just a personification of evil, and the talking snake was just literally a snake that talked because the bible was silly like that[/QUOTE]
What? I thought Lucifer was Satan. They are the same being. Lucifer is the name of the Angel before he fell from heaven, and Satan is his name after.
[QUOTE=woolio1;44316438]Just a little bit of completely unscientific posturing here... Adam and Eve would have been the only two people on earth in the Biblical creation story. Eventually, you can assume they'd go just a little bit crazy. Maybe to the point of, I don't know, hearing snakes talk?
After all, they'd have nobody to blame for their sin but themselves. Snake's just a convenient scapegoat.
Considering there's like four sentences that describe that whole shenanigan, I'd say it's entirely open to interpretation.[/QUOTE]
The whole Adam and Eve story is just an excuse to blame women for everything anyway
[QUOTE=woolio1;44316438]Just a little bit of completely unscientific posturing here... Adam and Eve would have been the only two people on earth in the Biblical creation story. Eventually, you can assume they'd go just a little bit crazy. Maybe to the point of, I don't know, hearing snakes talk?
After all, they'd have nobody to blame for their sin but themselves. Snake's just a convenient scapegoat.
Considering there's like four sentences that describe that whole shenanigan, I'd say it's entirely open to interpretation.[/QUOTE]
in some apocryphal religious scriptures Adam had a wife before Eve, Lilith
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44316468]What? I thought Lucifer was Satan. They are the same being. Lucifer is the name of the Angel before he fell from heaven, and Satan is his name after.[/QUOTE]
That's one theory, and honestly people can read whatever they want into biblical stories. But modern ideas of Lucifer seem to come from Dante's Inferno - which isn't biblical canon.
[QUOTE=woolio1;44316438]Just a little bit of completely unscientific posturing here... Adam and Eve would have been the only two people on earth in the Biblical creation story. Eventually, you can assume they'd go just a little bit crazy. Maybe to the point of, I don't know, hearing snakes talk?
After all, they'd have nobody to blame for their sin but themselves. Snake's just a convenient scapegoat.
Considering there's like four sentences that describe that whole shenanigan, I'd say it's entirely open to interpretation.[/QUOTE]
The Church has said repeatedly the entire Garden of Eden story isn't meant to taken literally, only the spiritual part. Things like the Big Bang Theory and evolution are perfectly acceptable in the face of scientific evidence - which, lest we forget, are ideas developed in the last few hundred years or so.
There's no point to try justifying talking snakes, because the only thing the Church really cares about is the idea that mankind willingly did evil acts and separated themselves from God. The fruit, the snake, the entire Garden - it's all just metaphor for the real, spiritual message. Unfortunately, said message tends to get lost in translation.
[editline]21st March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Forumaster;44315883]Except Lucifer. Apparently bringing knowledge and reason to an entire race is a no-no.[/QUOTE]
The problem wasn't bringing 'knowledge' or 'reason' to humanity, it was that Lucifer defied God. According to the Church, angels have full knowledge of God, which is something that humans lacked even before the whole Fall of Man thing. Thus, we're forgiven pretty much out a combination of ignorance and our own 'corrupted' nature.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;44316511]That's one theory, and honestly people can read whatever they want into biblical stories. But modern ideas of Lucifer seem to come from Dante's Inferno - which isn't biblical canon.[/QUOTE]It's from a few places and in part has to do with different translations of Biblical works, where in some a certain parts seem to directly address Lucifer, and in others its more vague.
Also, a lot of it also comes from Paradise Lost.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44316468]What? I thought Lucifer was Satan. They are the same being. Lucifer is the name of the Angel before he fell from heaven, and Satan is his name after.[/QUOTE]
Christian demonology is incredibly interesting to study even if your not religious, but its also incredibly convoluted and unclear. Most of the standard views of Lucifer/Satan come from literature such as the divine comedy, as opposed to the much more obscure work of theologians on the subject. They are both generally accepted as arch manifestations of evil and sin.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44316697]It's from a few places and in part has to do with different translations of Biblical works, where in some a certain parts seem to directly address Lucifer, and in others its more vague.
Also, a lot of it also comes from Paradise Lost.[/QUOTE]
Paradise lost is pretty interesting.I should mention though, that the metaphor for eden is probably more that adam failed to protect eve
[QUOTE=Forumaster;44315883]Except Lucifer. Apparently bringing knowledge and reason to an entire race is a no-no.[/QUOTE]
The snake is widely accepted to not have been the devil. At least that's what all of the biblical scholars I've talked with say and believe.
Hope he'll be alright. The mafia's powerful enough to even take on the army.
[video=youtube;cNZKUozrBl4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNZKUozrBl4[/video]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;44316356]Lucifer and the snake were (likely) different characters since most biblical scholars don't seem willing to say that either one is Satan
I think Lucifer is just an angel that rebelled against god, but didn't become the devil, Satan is just a personification of evil, and the talking snake was just literally a snake that talked because the bible was silly like that[/QUOTE]
Most scholars along with Judaism state that Lucifer was the king of Babylon, probably Nebuchadnezzar, the verses that mention Lucifer are mocking the king of Babylon due to his lofty opinion of himself, seeing himself as being like a god.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;44316474]The whole Adam and Eve story is just an excuse to blame women for everything anyway[/QUOTE]
What you say is partially true, but only for the only people who haven't actually read what that section said and only think they know what they're talking about. It actually puts Adam into a worse light since he blamed Eve for tempting him and blamed God for giving him the woman.
[quote]Genesis 3:12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave [I]to be[/I] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”[/quote]
If anything, this says that Adam was more at fault since Eve only blamed the snake.
[quote]Genesis 3:13b The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”[/quote]
As I said earlier, people do use this passage without knowing what it says and try to use it to blame women, but that's not what the story itself says.
I don't know you guys, but after reading a shitfucking ton of papers and papal encyclicals at my cat.school I just find it amazing how many messages and ideas can a simple text convey.
[QUOTE=Cheshire_cat;44316640]The Church has said repeatedly the entire Garden of Eden story isn't meant to taken literally, only the spiritual part. Things like the Big Bang Theory and evolution are perfectly acceptable in the face of scientific evidence - which, lest we forget, are ideas developed in the last few hundred years or so.
There's no point to try justifying talking snakes, because the only thing the Church really cares about is the idea that mankind willingly did evil acts and separated themselves from God. The fruit, the snake, the entire Garden - it's all just metaphor for the real, spiritual message. Unfortunately, said message tends to get lost in translation.
[/QUOTE]
Wasn't trying to justify talking snakes, although I know people who have. It's incredibly reckless to take the Genesis origin story as anything other than metaphor... For many, many reasons.
I was raised Southern Baptist. They take the whole concept of Genesis as an exact, literal transcription of what actually happened. If you try to make a case for anything else, you get a whole "O YE OF LITTLE FAITH" spiel, and it's just all terrible.
Honestly, the Catholic Church has a pretty good thing going, accepting modern, quantifiable science. You try to do that with the Southern Baptists, you get the same spiel... Which is odd for a whole host of reasons which I won't get into. (Why couldn't a deity who can create an entire reality make a world older than 6000 years old? Why couldn't he create it with a rapidly-expanding singularity? Why is your all-powerful deity so... incapable?)
I'm honestly not really sure where I fall now. Still Christian, but I find myself incorporating deistic and relativistic elements. Actually sort of thinking about my religion. Maybe that's how it's supposed to work?
[QUOTE=woolio1;44317419]Wasn't trying to justify talking snakes, although I know people who have. It's incredibly reckless to take the Genesis origin story as anything other than metaphor... For many, many reasons.
I was raised Southern Baptist. They take the whole concept of Genesis as an exact, literal transcription of what actually happened. If you try to make a case for anything else, you get a whole "O YE OF LITTLE FAITH" spiel, and it's just all terrible.
Honestly, the Catholic Church has a pretty good thing going, accepting modern, quantifiable science. You try to do that with the Southern Baptists, you get the same spiel... Which is odd for a whole host of reasons which I won't get into. (Why couldn't a deity who can create an entire reality make a world older than 6000 years old? Why couldn't he create it with a rapidly-expanding singularity? Why is your all-powerful deity so... incapable?)
I'm honestly not really sure where I fall now. Still Christian, but I find myself incorporating deistic and relativistic elements. Actually sort of thinking about my religion. Maybe that's how it's supposed to work?[/QUOTE]
I'm actually Catholic myself, but I tend to think along the lines of God forming the universe like a potter forms a clay pot.
You spin a lump of clay on a wheel, forming it and shaping it until it reaches the desired state. The only difference is that the lump of clay is things like evolution, the Big Bang Theory, the formation of the Solar System, and whatever modern science determines to be physically true. Eventually, over fourteen billion years, we reach the present state of humanity.
Take it as you will - and I know a shitton of people disagree with me, whether concerning the physical side or spiritual side - but I prefer that idea over the literal Garden of Eden. It fits in neatly with the scientific knowledge we've gathered and the religious knowledge the Church has learned.
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