Socialism today is not even Socialism.

[Destroyertf]

I heard lots of american complaining about the new healthcare plan, saying its socialist/comunist.

Well, Im not very informed in this health care plan of your, so im not gonna pretend I do.

But one thing I know. I know about the politics practiced here in Portugal. Portugal, at this moment, until November (the elections), the Socialist Party is in power. And hopefully, and almost surely, they will be reelected.

[img]http://www.luventicus.org/mapas/europa/portugal.gif[/img]

There 5 main partys here in Portugal: PS (Socialist Party, from the left), PSD (Socialist-Democrat Party from the left), CDS-PP (Popular Party, from the right), PCP (Comunist Portuguese Party) and Bloco de Esquerda (Left Block, Left.)

Also, note that Portugal was in a ditatorial governament for 41 years, a governament similar to Musolini's or Hitler's. So guess why Portugal doesnt have many Right Partys? Simply because suffered for 41 years of non political freedom, and all the party members were hunted down, arested, tortured, and sometimes, killed. But the socialist/comunist partys were the main to be hunted.

In 1974, the April Revolution succeded. The military took over the radio stations, tv stations, military headquarters, surronded the Political Police Headquarters, and siezed the building where the tiran, Marcelo Caetano, was hidden. Hours of negotian followed, and in the end of the day, in one day, one of the most peaceful revolutions ever won. In the end of the day, there were only 4 dead, when the political police fired to the crowd. The military, simbolizing a peaceful revolution, walked in the streets with Cravos, a type of flower, inside the barrels of the G3 rifles.

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qIW_fwZLlAY/Ri3obES1ZnI/AAAAAAAAAVA/BlNtMiJxRt0/s400/maia.jpg[/IMG]

After this revoltion, a provisory governament, build by the opositors of the ditatorship, mainly comunist, took power for 1 year. A fucked up year. They tried to nacionalized the main industries, resulting in the worse recesion since the actual crysis. Thankfuly, a new governament was quickly elected.

Since then, every party was in power atleast once. The comunist party never got elected again beacause of the fuck up they did, the Social Democrats didnt bring anything new, and the Socialist Party did some changes that in consider amazing here in this little country.

The Socialist Party doesnt use the Socialism tipical of Stalin, but is more of a right governament that applys some socialistic ideias. People, however, when think of socialism, think of the type of socialist of Stalin. The modern socialism is totaly diffrent nowdays.

By acting like a right governament, but applying socialistic measures, like a health care program, a modernization of school by making all students have acess to computers extremely cheaply, supporting small companys in thier development, well, if you are familiar with some of the "light" measures of socialism, thats those. Portugal progressed alot with this light socialistic governament.

In conclusion, I would like to say that the socialism nowdays is not Stalin's socialism, (with the censorship, control of the industry) but its a right governament applying some influence in the country and in the people, improving the country and the life of the people. So, in my opinion, a few light socialism measures in U.S.A. would be able to improve lots of things.

[b]TL;DR: Modern Socialism is not the insane Socialism of Stalin, (with censoship, control of the economy etc) but its more of a right governament applying some measures to help the economy and the people. In my opinion, some light socialism measures in U.S.A., like a healthcare plan, would help the country alot.[/b]

PS: I rated myself bad spelling, forgive me please : (

[Turbis]

In before "Go back to russia"

Edit;

There's a little socialism in everything today. It just goes unnoticed mostly beacause it's stuff we take for granted.

Edit;

And it's callde Crisis. Crysis is a game.

[Peluri]

commies

[Destroyertf]

[QUOTE=Peluri;16643587]commies[/QUOTE]

Comunism is unrealistic and works mainly in teory.

Socialism=/=Comunism.

[Hammertime]

Some socialist changes would do good to america. People having to sell their car when they break a leg is just plain wrong. This coming from a guy living in the health-care paradise called Belgium...

[Reaver1991]

[QUOTE=Destroyertf;16643645]Comunism is inrealistic and works mainly in teory.

Socialism=/=Comunism.[/QUOTE]

Comunism is inrealistic?

[TailsPrower]

The bill strictly states it gives the power of terminating healthcare, restricting healthcare to the mentally ill, restricting healthcare to the elderly, and family planning ALL to the government. Sorry, but we are use to more freedom than that here in America. Maybe it isn't socialism by definition, but it's still taking away a lot of freedom.

[Destroyertf]

[QUOTE=Reaver1991;16643720]Comunism is inrealistic?[/QUOTE]

Fixed. You know what I meant.

[Reaver1991]

Communism is still spelled wrong. >:C

[editline]12:27PM[/editline]

And so is theory.

[Xesum]

[QUOTE=TailsPrower;16643734]The bill strictly states it gives the power of terminating healthcare, restricting healthcare to the mentally ill, restricting healthcare to the elderly, and family planning ALL to the government. Sorry, but we are use to more freedom than that here in America. Maybe it isn't socialism by definition, but it's still taking away a lot of freedom.[/QUOTE]

Most bills have that in the small print.

[Turbis]

[QUOTE=Destroyertf;16643563]I heard lots of american complaining about the new healthcare plan, saying its socialist/comunist.

Well, Im not very informed in this health care plan of your, so im not gonna pretend I do.

But one thing I know. I know about the politics practiced here in Portugal. Portugal, at this moment, until November (the elections), the Socialist Party is in power. And hopefully, and almost surely, they will be reelected.

[img]http://www.luventicus.org/mapas/europa/portugal.gif[/img]

There 5 main partys here in Portugal: PS (Socialist Party, from the left), PSD (Socialist-Democrat Party from the left), CDS-PP (Popular Party, from the right), PCP (Comunist Portuguese Party) and Bloco de Esquerda (Left Block, Left.)

Also, note that Portugal was in a ditatorial governament for 41 years, a governament similar to Musolini's or Hitler's. So guess why Portugal doesnt have many Right Partys? Simply because suffered for 41 years of non political freedom, and all the party members were hunted down, arested, tortured, and sometimes, killed. But the socialist/comunist partys were the main to be hunted.

In 1974, the April Revolution succeded. The military took over the radio stations, tv stations, military headquarters, surronded the Political Police Headquarters, and siezed the building where the tiran, Salazar, was hidden. Hours of negotian followed, and in the end of the day, in one day, one of the most peaceful revolutions ever won. In the end of the day, there were only 4 dead, when the political police fired to the crowd. The military, simbolizing a peaceful revolution, walked in the streets with Cravos, a type of flower, inside the barrels of the G3 rifles.

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qIW_fwZLlAY/Ri3obES1ZnI/AAAAAAAAAVA/BlNtMiJxRt0/s400/maia.jpg[/IMG]

After this revoltion, a provisory governament, build by the opositors of the ditatorship, mainly comunist, took power for 1 year. A fucked up year. They tried to nacionalized the main industries, resulting in the worse recesion since the actual crysis. Thankfuly, a new governament was quickly elected.

Since then, every party was in power atleast once. The comunist party never got elected again beacause of the fuck up they did, the Social Democrats didnt bring anything new, and the Socialist Party did some changes that in consider amazing here in this little country.

The Socialist Party doesnt use the Socialism tipical of Stalin, but is more of a right governament that applys some socialistic ideias. People, however, when think of socialism, think of the type of socialist of Stalin. The modern socialism is totaly diffrent nowdays.

By acting like a right governament, but applying socialistic measures, like a health care program, a modernization of school by making all students have acess to computers extremely cheaply, supporting small companys in thier development, well, if you are familiar with some of the "light" measures of socialism, thats those. Portugal progressed alot with this light socialistic governament.

In conclusion, I would like to say that the socialism nowdays is not Stalin's socialism, (with the censorship, control of the industry) but its a right governament applying some influence in the country and in the people, improving the country and the life of the people. So, in my opinion, a few light socialism measures in U.S.A. would be able to improve lots of things.

[b]TL;DR: Modern Socialism is not the insane Socialism of Stalin, (with censoship, control of the economy etc) but its more of a right governament applying some measures to help the economy and the people. In my opinion, some light socialism measures in U.S.A., like a healthcare plan, would help the country alot.[/b]

PS: I rated myself bad spelling, forgive me please : ([/QUOTE]

Quoted in case he snips by the way.

[Xmeagol]

[QUOTE=Destroyertf;16643563]I heard lots of american complaining about the new healthcare plan, saying its socialist/comunist.

Well, Im not very informed in this health care plan of your, so im not gonna pretend I do.

But one thing I know. I know about the politics practiced here in Portugal. Portugal, at this moment, until November (the elections), the Socialist Party is in power. And hopefully, and almost surely, they will be reelected.

[img]http://www.luventicus.org/mapas/europa/portugal.gif[/img]

There 5 main partys here in Portugal: PS (Socialist Party, from the left), PSD (Socialist-Democrat Party from the left), CDS-PP (Popular Party, from the right), PCP (Comunist Portuguese Party) and Bloco de Esquerda (Left Block, Left.)

Also, note that Portugal was in a ditatorial governament for 41 years, a governament similar to Musolini's or Hitler's. So guess why Portugal doesnt have many Right Partys? Simply because suffered for 41 years of non political freedom, and all the party members were hunted down, arested, tortured, and sometimes, killed. But the socialist/comunist partys were the main to be hunted.

In 1974, the April Revolution succeded. The military took over the radio stations, tv stations, military headquarters, surronded the Political Police Headquarters, and siezed the building where the tiran, Salazar, was hidden. Hours of negotian followed, and in the end of the day, in one day, one of the most peaceful revolutions ever won. In the end of the day, there were only 4 dead, when the political police fired to the crowd. The military, simbolizing a peaceful revolution, walked in the streets with Cravos, a type of flower, inside the barrels of the G3 rifles.

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qIW_fwZLlAY/Ri3obES1ZnI/AAAAAAAAAVA/BlNtMiJxRt0/s400/maia.jpg[/IMG]

After this revoltion, a provisory governament, build by the opositors of the ditatorship, mainly comunist, took power for 1 year. A fucked up year. They tried to nacionalized the main industries, resulting in the worse recesion since the actual crysis. Thankfuly, a new governament was quickly elected.

Since then, every party was in power atleast once. The comunist party never got elected again beacause of the fuck up they did, the Social Democrats didnt bring anything new, and the Socialist Party did some changes that in consider amazing here in this little country.

The Socialist Party doesnt use the Socialism tipical of Stalin, but is more of a right governament that applys some socialistic ideias. People, however, when think of socialism, think of the type of socialist of Stalin. The modern socialism is totaly diffrent nowdays.

By acting like a right governament, but applying socialistic measures, like a health care program, a modernization of school by making all students have acess to computers extremely cheaply, supporting small companys in thier development, well, if you are familiar with some of the "light" measures of socialism, thats those. Portugal progressed alot with this light socialistic governament.

In conclusion, I would like to say that the socialism nowdays is not Stalin's socialism, (with the censorship, control of the industry) but its a right governament applying some influence in the country and in the people, improving the country and the life of the people. So, in my opinion, a few light socialism measures in U.S.A. would be able to improve lots of things.

[b]TL;DR: Modern Socialism is not the insane Socialism of Stalin, (with censoship, control of the economy etc) but its more of a right governament applying some measures to help the economy and the people. In my opinion, some light socialism measures in U.S.A., like a healthcare plan, would help the country alot.[/b]

PS: I rated myself bad spelling, forgive me please : ([/QUOTE]

You fucking moron, António de Oliveira Salazar died in 1968.

The guy in power at the time of the revolution was called Marcello Caetano.

Get your facts straight.

[Xesum]

Is harold and Kumar in the top right of that photo?

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qIW_fwZLlAY/Ri3obES1ZnI/AAAAAAAAAVA/BlNtMiJxRt0/s400/maia.jpg[/img]

[BAZ]

Your military is pretty gay

[Xmeagol]

To note that was 30 years ago

[Destroyertf]

[QUOTE=Xmeagol;16643887]You fucking moron, António de Oliveira Salazar died in 1968.

The guy in power at the time of the revolution was called Marcello Caetano.

Get your facts straight.[/QUOTE]

Yep : ( I know it was Marcelo, I simply made a error there.

[Cheezy]

Stalinism and socialism have never been the same thing, that's like saying national socialism and socialism is.

[detectivep]

Censorship isn't part of socialism or communism, now or then....Or at least it's not supposed to be. And control of industry is something that is part of communism, I don't think it is in socialism.

[Kingy_who]

modern day conservatism is more or less the same as OP's so called modern socalism, but conservatism is slightly less on benifits and immagration.

[MC3craze]

[QUOTE=Xesum;16643917]Is harold and Kumar in the top right of that photo?

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qIW_fwZLlAY/Ri3obES1ZnI/AAAAAAAAAVA/BlNtMiJxRt0/s400/maia.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

x1 :v: Funny (list)

[ryandaniels]

[QUOTE=TailsPrower;16643734]The bill strictly states it gives the power of terminating healthcare, restricting healthcare to the mentally ill, restricting healthcare to the elderly, and family planning ALL to the government. Sorry, but we are use to more freedom than that here in America. Maybe it isn't socialism by definition, but it's still taking away a lot of freedom.[/QUOTE]

Even still, you still can get private healthcare, so they aren't killing the elderly, they are saying that we won't use government money to give you incredibly expensive procedures when you are 90 years old. Which is the same as it is now.

[tuliq]

If you never try, you never know, America :)

[Xmeagol]

[QUOTE=TuLiq;16645397]If you never try, you never know, America :)[/QUOTE]

comrade alert.

[Wolf_Marine]

[QUOTE=Destroyertf;16643563]By acting like a right governament, but applying socialistic measures, like a health care program, a modernization of school by making all students have acess to computers extremely cheaply, supporting small companys in thier development, well, if you are familiar with some of the "light" measures of socialism, thats those. Portugal progressed alot with this light socialistic governament.[/QUOTE]

First off its not that hard to use a spellcheck or the edit button to fix the misspellings.

Second, health insurance in the U.S. depends on your salary. If you can afford it, you're fine with it. If you can't, you want government to do it for you.

Third, the [url=http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-immigrant-health-transplantaug11,0,3342811.story?page=1]Chicago Tribune[/url] has an article about an illegal immigrant who received an organ transplant. Although I am not against saving human lives,[b] the patient did not have to pay the $150k operation and the hospital has to pay it somehow, so the costs end up becoming a burden on other patients' hospital bill.[/b] I have no reason to doubt this scenario is repeated quite frequently throughout the country and ends up throwing health care costs through the roof at numerous major hospitals.

Fourth, who people fear more, private of government health insurance? [url=http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/on_health_care_51_fear_government_more_than_insurance_companies]The numbers are evenly divided.[/url]

[MercZ]

Even if people don't agree with it, in Europe socialism and social democracy are largely accepted as legitimate and valid ideologies and they can participate in political discourse and debate.

It's a different case with the United States, but I guess that's because they and the Soviet Union were screaming and yelling at each other over which of their extremes would benefit man more. Soviet Union had their share of thoroughly anti-capitalist propaganda, and the US, well...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWeZ5SKXvj8[/media]

[Jock Strap]

i lol'd at OP

[4NGRY MUFF1N]

[QUOTE=Destroyertf;16643645]Comunism is unrealistic and works mainly in teory.

Socialism=/=Comunism.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree, us humans, are to greedy to have this working!

[Benf199105]

@OP it is not Stalin's Socialism, it is Stalinism.

Also, can everyone understand, Socialism and Communism [B]does not [/B] equal censorship / police state.

We have never seen true socialism and communism, [B]never[/B].

[JohnnyMo]

[QUOTE=Benf199105;16647691]@OP it is not Stalin's Socialism, it is Stalinism.

Also, can everyone understand, Socialism and Communism [B]does not [/B] equal censorship / police state.[/QUOTE]

Yeah that.

Socialism does not necessarily entail KGB dragging your ass to the gulags in the middle of the night.

[DrMortician]

[QUOTE=Benf199105;16647691]
Also, can everyone understand, Socialism and Communism [B]does not [/B] equal censorship / police state.
[/QUOTE]

Yea, that's fascism usually.