Global study of students: Europe & Asia are better than America. - Polidicks

[quote] [quote] [IMG]http://www.ximnet.com.my/thelab/images/upload/findX.jpg[/IMG] [B]Average United States High School Understanding of Algebra.[/B] [/quote] [h2]Students in the U.S. perform better than the global average, but still lag behind many of their peers in Asia and Europe, an international study found.[/h2] Fourth-graders have improved their scores in reading and math over the past four years, according to a study released Tuesday. But progress seems to fall off by eighth grade, where math and science scores are stagnant. Meanwhile, kids in countries like Finland and Singapore are outperforming American fourth-graders in science and reading. By eighth grade, American students have fallen behind their Russian, Japanese and Taiwanese counterparts in math, and trail students from Hong Kong, Slovenia and South Korea in science. "These 2011 international assessments provide both encouraging news about our students' progress and some sobering cautionary notes," said Education Secretary Arne Duncan, who applauded gains among fourth-graders but warned those gains aren't being sustained in later grades. "That is unacceptable if our schools are to live up to the American promise of giving all children a world-class education." The results of the study, conducted every four years in nations around the world, show mixed prospects for delivering on that promise. A nation that once took pride in being at the top of its game can no longer credibly call itself the global leader in student performance. Wringing their hands about what that reality portends for broader U.S. influence, policymakers worry it could have ripple effects on the economy down the line, with Americans increasingly at a competitive disadvantage in the international marketplace. Elevating the skills needed to compete with emerging countries has been a priority for President Barack Obama, who has pledged to train 100,000 new math and science teachers over the next decade. "Think about the America within our reach: a country that leads the world in educating its people. An America that attracts a new generation of high-tech manufacturing and high-paying jobs," he said this year in his State of the Union address. The U.S. has a long way to go to reach those goals. In the meantime, other countries are making significant strides. Russian eighth-graders were about tied in math with their American peers in 2007, the last time the study was conducted. Four years later, Russia's scores have surged and now surpass the U.S. by a significant margin. Reading skills are a major strength for American students. Only a few points separate American students from the top-scoring students in the world. In Florida, which took part in the study separately, reading scores are second only to Hong Kong. Asia continues to dominate the top echelon of scores across subject fields. The tiny city-state of Singapore takes first place in eighth-grade science and fourth-grade math, with South Korea scoring nearly as high. Singapore takes second place to South Korea in eighth-grade math, with Taiwan in third. The results also lean toward Asian nations when it comes to advanced levels of learning. In Singapore, 4 in 10 eighth-graders achieved the "advanced benchmark" in science, which requires an understanding of complex and abstract concepts in physics, chemistry, biology and other sciences. About 2 in 10 make the grade in Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. In the U.S., it's about 1 in 10. "There are a small handful of countries or systems that are managing to get a much larger percentage of their students over the advanced benchmark," said Jack Buckley, commissioner of the National Center for Education Statistics. "There's clearly some room for improvement." The Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study and its sister test, the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study, are used to measure knowledge, skills and mastery of curricula by elementary and middle school students around the world. Students in rich, industrialized nations and poor, developing countries alike are tested. In 2011, 56 educational systems—mostly countries, but some states and subnational entities like Hong Kong—took part in math and science exams. Fifty-three systems participated in the reading exam, which included almost 13,000 American fourth-graders. "These kinds of tests are very good at telling us who's ahead in the race. They don't have a lot to say about causes or why countries are where they are," said Brookings Institution senior fellow Tom Loveless, who in previous years represented the U.S. in the international group that administers the test. Other findings released Tuesday: — Some U.S. states that were measured separately were clear standouts, performing on par with or better than some top-performing Asian countries. Eighth-graders in Massachusetts and Minnesota score far better in math and science than the U.S. average. But in California and Alabama, eighth-graders fell short of the national average. — Racial and class disparities are all too real. In eighth grade, Americans in the schools with the highest poverty—those with 75 percent or more of students on free or reduced-price lunch—performed below both the U.S. average and the lower international average. Students at schools with fewer poor kids performed better. In fourth-grade reading, all ethnic groups outperformed the international average, but white and Asian students did better than their black and Hispanic classmates. — Boys in the U.S. do better than girls in fourth-grade science and eighth-grade math. But girls rule when it comes to reading. — On a global level, the gender gap appears to be closing. About half of the countries showed no statistically meaningful gap between boys and girls in math and science. The tests are carried out by the International Association for Evaluation of Educational Achievement, a coalition of research institutions. The U.S. portion of the exams is coordinated by the Education Department's National Center for Education Statistics. More information: Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study: [URL="http://nces.ed.gov/timss/"]nces.ed.gov/timss/[/URL] Progress in International Reading Literacy Study: [URL="http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pirls/"]nces.ed.gov/surveys/pirls/[/URL] ============================================================ Source: [URL]http://phys.org/news/2012-12-global-student-scores-bag.html[/URL] [/quote]

Not surprising.

I thought this was known for awhile now

Its mainly because our system is fucked because we can't actually [I]fire[/I] bad teachers.

Come on it can't be that bad. At least tell me how it works, fellow Americans. Or what's so horrid about it.

[QUOTE=Swilly;38788654]Its mainly because our system is fucked because we can't actually [I]fire[/I] bad teachers.[/QUOTE] Example A: I had this Chem teacher who was just absolute shit at teaching. He would harrass girls and be really creepy around them and he was just generally rude. He gave assignments and would not ever explain what we had to do, and if we had a question he would explain it so he understood what he was saying but no one else did. We weren't able to get rid of him or anything and I was stuck with him. Flunked the class and ruined my GPA even though I did all my work. Our system is fucked up. Even with his shit test scores that the school could see, they just assumed that we were bad students and he was the good guy in the situation.

[img]http://puu.sh/1xUG6[/img] "I'm really surprised at these results" - No one

I live in one of the best ISDs in the country, and I can still find teachers that need to go.. mostly in the math and science departments. it comes down to student support when they don't understand the materials.

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;38788747] And some students just do not belong in school. Some people don't give a shit nor want to be here so they may as well not be forced to go because they just make things shit for everyone else; or at least go to some alternate facility. [/QUOTE] According to a Chinese exchange teacher I had for my Chinese Culture class, they just throw out students or put them in the factories if they under perform and don't have strong connections. That's one of the reasons China does so well in education is because a lot of the students are the cream of the crop.

[QUOTE=The First 11'er;38788682]Example A: I had this Chem teacher who was just absolute shit at teaching. He would harrass girls and be really creepy around them and he was just generally rude. He gave assignments and would not ever explain what we had to do, and if we had a question he would explain it so he understood what he was saying but no one else did. We weren't able to get rid of him or anything and I was stuck with him. Flunked the class and ruined my GPA even though I did all my work. Our system is fucked up. Even with his shit test scores that the school could see, they just assumed that we were bad students and he was the good guy in the situation.[/QUOTE] I was more referencing the method at which you fire teachers, which is you have the first half of the school year to follow strict procedure of turning shit in and if you miss a single deadline you have to start over the next year. [I]Waiting for Superman[/I] is a great source of information about how fucked up the Public Education system is.

Then again, there's a fuckton of pressure in Europe/Asia. Less than half of the people who went to college goes to university here in Singapore. Most of them goes overseas. One reason why you see so many Asians in other countries.

US and Britain have the best schools, but also a much bigger difference between schools, leaving a bad average.

Honestly, the PISA test is flawed in many ways. It's like saying if you're not good at climbing trees, you're not really good at anything.

[QUOTE=shian;38788666]Come on it can't be that bad. At least tell me how it works, fellow Americans. Or what's so horrid about it.[/QUOTE] Well I don't mean to turn this into a religious debate, but the teacher I had for biology in high school refuses to teach evolution. He doesn't accept it so it doesn't teach it. Some teachers are actually sport coaches and do not deserve to be teaching classes, but they are because my school was cheap.

I think its not really fair to compare nations that let students drop out to nations that force mandatory attendance for all children.

[QUOTE=Swilly;38788654]Its mainly because our system is fucked because we can't actually [I]fire[/I] bad teachers.[/QUOTE] Wait how are you getting agrees when the Michigan RTW threads only get dumbs?

'Cause with freedom comes stupidity

[QUOTE=Morcam;38788971]Wait how are you getting agrees when the Michigan RTW threads only get dumbs?[/QUOTE] Right to Work is horrible, but its actually true. Good teachers can't get paid more for doing well and its extremely difficult to punish or remove the bad teachers. This is all because of the a Massive Teacher Union within the US who can't see out its own ass. I advocate for more Unions and Union rights but the fact you can't fire a bad teacher without going through a tedious and shitty schedule of due dates for paper work is atrocious.

[QUOTE=Saxon;38788821]According to a Chinese exchange teacher I had for my Chinese Culture class, they just throw out students or put them in the factories if they under perform and don't have strong connections. That's one of the reasons China does so well in education is because a lot of the students are the cream of the crop.[/QUOTE] Yep. It's like that for eastern Europe too.

Just a note before anyone jumps down my throat. Teachers Unions are important, we want our teachers to feel like they're heard and that they get proper wages for the work they do. But we also should have the ability to remove any teacher who fails to meet standards. Or are generally seen as poor at their teaching abilities.

Makes me proud

[QUOTE=Saxon;38788821]According to a Chinese exchange teacher I had for my Chinese Culture class, they just throw out students or put them in the factories if they under perform and don't have strong connections. That's one of the reasons China does so well in education is because a lot of the students are the cream of the crop.[/QUOTE] They do something similar to this in my college, minus the factory part, obviously. It's in the highest 2% in the UK for pass-grades at A-level. While it's not exactly forgiving it's legal. Do good or get kicked out seems to be the philosophy for the highest achieving faculties anywhere you go.

[QUOTE=Nightsure;38789583][B]Do good or get kicked[/B] [B]out[/B] seems to be the philosophy for the highest achieving faculties anywhere you go.[/QUOTE] I'd even say organizations in general.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;38788957]Honestly, the PISA test is flawed in many ways. It's like saying if you're not good at climbing trees, you're not really good at anything.[/QUOTE] If you can suggest a better statistically secure way of measuring knowledge, I'm sure the people who carried out the study would gladly listen to you.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;38788957]Honestly, the PISA test is flawed in many ways. It's like saying if you're not good at climbing trees, you're not really good at anything.[/QUOTE] but science, mathematics and reading are a bit different from climbing a tree.

[QUOTE=Swilly;38788654]Its mainly because our system is fucked because we can't actually [I]fire[/I] bad teachers.[/QUOTE] "bad teachers" are hardly the reason our school system isn't good enough, please don't play into conservative bullshit tia

Our system stopped teaching at a high level and encouraging students to strive to do better and instead is teaching at a lower level so no kid gets left behind. Which is bad because there are lots of students who aren't willing to work and should be left behind, not catered to.

Get in! Take that 'Murica!

[QUOTE=jptalbert;38791544]Our system stopped teaching at a high level and encouraging students to strive to do better and instead is teaching at a lower level so no kid gets left behind. Which is bad because there are lots of students who aren't willing to work and should be left behind, not catered to.[/QUOTE] i don't think that a child should be left back because they throw a hissy fit and don't want to do their homework, in fact i think that's a pants shittingly idiotic idea that completely violates so many international laws that the US is bound by there's absolutely no reason that the state shouldn't be putting the effort into its students. we've been in this state since before no child left behind. we have some of the most unequal schools in the world. i live in ct: we have some of the best schools in the us right with MA and NJ. some of our schools are amazing. some of our schools (read: the ones in urban areas) are poor and can't afford experienced teachers and can't afford proper equipment. on top of that, fucking idiots (like chris christie!) are attempting to cut funding to schools in order to save money. the problem isn't that we're trying to "help kids who shouldn't be helped," our problem isn't "bad teachers" our problem is that people [I]think[/I] those are the problems and thus actually think it's acceptable to fucking cut education funding. it's ridiculously stupid and you should feel bad as a human being.

[QUOTE=The First 11'er;38788682]Example A: I had this Chem teacher who was just absolute shit at teaching. He would harrass girls and be really creepy around them and he was just generally rude. He gave assignments and would not ever explain what we had to do, and if we had a question he would explain it so he understood what he was saying but no one else did. We weren't able to get rid of him or anything and I was stuck with him. Flunked the class and ruined my GPA even though I did all my work. Our system is fucked up. Even with his shit test scores that the school could see, they just assumed that we were bad students and he was the good guy in the situation.[/QUOTE] And you did nothing to oppose him?