"The disruption is worth the fight" - Striking begins
46 replies, posted
Striking has begun for the UK Border Agency who are the first of 750,000 public sector workers taking part.
Union leaders have told that despite what David Cameron says, fighting for pensions is 'worth the disruption'.
Prime Minister David Cameron told MPs it was unfair of the strikers to cause problems for everyone.
He said government plans were "fair to taxpayers" and the public sector.
"I don't believe there is any case for industrial action tomorrow, not least because talks are still on-going."
A third of schools will be open, a third of schools with be partially effected and a third of schools will be closed, according to the BBC's political correspondent Ben Wright.
This is because of 24-hour strike action by members of the National Union of Teachers (NUT) and the Association of Teachers and Lecturers (ATL).
The British Chambers of Commerce said many parents would lose pay for taking the day off work to look after their children, and productivity would be hit.
Labour leader Ed Miliband said the strikes would be a "mistake", and that both sides should get back round the negotiating table.
"It's only a minority of unions who have taken the decision to go ahead and strike."
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[*] Schools: Information about 75% of schools. One third to close, one third to open as normal and one third to be "partially affected"
[*] Job Centres and Courts: Will remain open "wherever possible"
[*] Benefits: Little disruption expected as most claims are automated
[*] Customs/immigration: Trained managers to be redeployed to ensure full checks are conducted and borders remain secure
[*] Civil service: One in five workers will strike. Staff to be allowed to bring their children into work
[*] Parliament: Operating as normal with full access maintained
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[B](BBC)[/B]
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[B](Channel 4)[/B]
[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13967580[/URL]
[URL]http://www.channel4.com/news/warning-of-travel-delays-during-strike[/URL]
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Selfish twats.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;30783973]Selfish twats.[/QUOTE]
How DARE someone want their pension
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30784096]How DARE someone want their pension[/QUOTE]
So what specifically are they fighting for here?
What did the government do [i]now[/i]?
Who cares, its warm anyways, p. hot to learn anyways, so noone will notice
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30784096]How DARE someone want their pension[/QUOTE]
They are doing it in the middle of the exams for their selves. The source said many people would lose wages for taking the day off for looking after children.
These people want to retire earlier than is feasibly possible.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;30784120]So what specifically are they fighting for here?
What did the government do [i]now[/i]?[/QUOTE]
The public sector will work longer, pay more in taxes, and receive a lower pension
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;30784158]They are doing it in the middle of the exams for their selves. The source said many people would lose wages for taking the day off for looking after children.
These people want to retire earlier than is feasibly possible.[/QUOTE]
As far as I'm aware there are no GCSE or A-Level exams still on any more, that last one was on Monday.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;30784158]They are doing it in the middle of the exams for their selves. The source said many people would lose wages for taking the day off for looking after children.
These people want to retire earlier than is feasibly possible.[/QUOTE]
Oh no, 24 hours will cripple the country! It'll ruin kids lives! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
You should enroll for Cameron's PR.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;30784158]They are doing it in the middle of the exams for their selves. The source said many people would lose wages for taking the day off for looking after children.
These people want to retire earlier than is feasibly possible.[/QUOTE]
All of the exam boards finished their exams yesterday apparently. A few weeks ago someone was on the TV talking about it saying that they had made sure that they were not going to cause issues.
isnt this how the film adaptation of battle royale started
[editline]29th June 2011[/editline]
except in japan of course
I don't understand why people always want to cut teacher's salaries and reduce their pensions. Aren't they, I don't know, wholly responsible for the success of the current generation of students?
"Biggest public sector action since Thatcher."
Says it all, we should of got rid of David Thatcher at the student riots, but we didn't have enough support, hopefully the public sector will bring out everyone else in support. The Government's PR (BBC) are working overtime to try and turn the public's opinion against the strikes, trying to make public sector workers look selfish, where as it is the public sector that keeps this country running, and they deserve more respect and to be treated better than what they are.
[QUOTE=kittykaty;30789237]"Biggest public sector action since Thatcher."
Says it all, we should of got rid of David Thatcher at the student riots, but we didn't have enough support, hopefully the public sector will bring out everyone else in support. The Government's PR (BBC) are working overtime to try and turn the public's opinion against the strikes, trying to make public sector workers look selfish, where as it is the public sector that keeps this country running, and they deserve more respect and to be treated better than what they are.[/QUOTE]
I think the BBC have been pretty fair in this issue, tbh. I don't think they've given one side more screen time than the other, and I haven't seen a report without members from both sides giving their views. If you compare their reports next to The Sun's, however...
WOO HOO NO SCHOOOOL
this is how every student including me sees the situation
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30784096]How DARE someone want their pension[/QUOTE]
The Government isn't "taking" their pensions. The proposed Government plans just means that the public sector will have to work a bit harder and longer just like everybody else.
[QUOTE=kittykaty;30789237]"Biggest public sector action since Thatcher."
Says it all, we should of got rid of David Thatcher at the student riots, but we didn't have enough support, hopefully the public sector will bring out everyone else in support. The Government's PR (BBC) are working overtime to try and turn the public's opinion against the strikes, trying to make public sector workers look selfish, where as [B]it is the public sector that keeps this country running, and they deserve more respect and to be treated better than what they are.[/B][/QUOTE]
Both the public sectors and private sectors are important, and I don't see how one is more important than the other really. Without either, a country would fail. Because of the economic downturn, private sector workers have received wage cuts and increased hours/job loss risks across the board. Why should public sector workers be treated any differently? I don't know the exact details of this particular strike, but it really annoyed me a year or two ago when our secondary school teachers striked for a day. It really was quite selfish. A full day strike over a [B]1%[/B] tax levy on their pay. Because they teach and are paid from the taxpayer's pocket, they don't need to worry about major job cuts as private sector workers do. They very rarely get reductions in pay, and when they do, they get all whiny about it. The public sector should just accept that everyone needs to suffer financially before things can get better, and stop taking unnecessary industrial action.
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30789164]I don't understand why people always want to cut teacher's salaries and reduce their pensions. Aren't they, I don't know, wholly responsible for the success of the current generation of students?[/QUOTE]
People aren't paid in line with the importance of their jobs. Everybody else has taken pay cuts, why should teachers be any different??
They're going to have to pay more and receive less, I believe the general public thinks this is acceptable. However, this isn't a trivial amount that can be compared to the private sectors cuts/freezes as a cut and dry issue. The point is they're striking because all those years of money they've put into the pension fund has simply not been enough, so it's for all intents and purposes 'vanished', making all their previous contributions worthless. They're angry because it's completely out of their control - previous governments have allowed this to happen - instead going for vote grabbing headlines such as paying off national debt and lower general taxes.
People feel cheated, and that's to be expected. Am I saying striking is the best answer and we should all down tools? No, of course not - but it's the governments job to make this process of paying off debt as gentle a process as possible - and in my opinion that should include the option of a long term investment plan that ensures the debt is paid off, even if it takes longer than 5-10 years and long after the general election. Not like we haven't done that before (Ahem, the entire 90's)
Just give them a break. They're pissed off because they have to suffer, and it's the previous governments lack of hindsight that's created it.
[QUOTE=Caesar;30789538]The Government isn't "taking" their pensions. The proposed Government plans just means that the public sector will have to work a bit harder and longer just like everybody else.[/QUOTE]
Unless the government wants to start paying teachers fairly I think they're entitled to a generous pension instead.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30790093]Unless the government wants to start paying teachers fairly I think they're entitled to a generous pension instead.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about?? Teachers do get paid very fairly.. The average salary for a classroom teacher is roughly £34,000 in England and Wales. They start off earning around £20,000, and this increases every year over the next five or ten years where they reach around £34,000. That job includes a very large amount of holidays (much more than most private sector jobs), a regular work schedule and virtually no risk to losing their job by being fired. I think everybody in this thread is just assuming that teachers are treated like dirt. They're not!
[QUOTE=Caesar;30799232]What are you talking about?? Teachers do get paid very fairly.. The average salary for a classroom teacher is roughly £34,000 in England and Wales. They start off earning around £20,000, and this increases every year over the next five or ten years where they reach around £34,000. That job includes a very large amount of holidays (much more than most private sector jobs), a regular work schedule and virtually no risk to losing their job by being fired. I think everybody in this thread is just assuming that teachers are treated like dirt. They're not![/QUOTE]
If this was the case, then is the DoE having great difficultly finding and training people to teach, especially in key areas like science and technology? It's because graduates can find better paying, easier jobs elsewhere.
[QUOTE=Camundongo;30799313]If this was the case, then is the DoE having great difficultly finding and training people to teach, especially in key areas like science and technology? It's because graduates can find better paying, easier jobs elsewhere.[/QUOTE]
Of course better paid jobs can be found, but do those jobs have all of the perks and benefits that teaching has? Long holidays, a five day working week and virtually no risk of being fired or laid off? I've never heard of there being major problems of finding teachers for science and/or technology, but if that is the case, then I would presume it is because the UK has a growing population, and there are less people graduating from courses like science and technology.
Infact I'm pretty sure the situation is the exact opposite at the moment. Plenty of people graduating from teaching courses but not enough jobs to go around. Hence, the amount of substitutes.
[QUOTE=Caesar;30799433]Of course better paid jobs can be found, but do those jobs have all of the perks and benefits that teaching has? Long holidays, a five day working week and virtually no risk of being fired or laid off? I've never heard of there being major problems of finding teachers for science and/or technology, but if that is the case, then I would presume it is because the UK has a growing population, and there are less people graduating from courses like science and technology.
Infact I'm pretty sure the situation is the exact opposite at the moment. Plenty of people graduating from teaching courses but not enough jobs to go around. Hence, the amount of substitutes.[/QUOTE]
I'm currently studying physics, and I and my classmates recieved several emails from the DoE asking us to consider teaching, and many friends I know from college who went on to study the sciences recieved similiar emails.
I also signed up for the Student Associate Scheme, which was targeted at Science, IT and Technology students, and there we were told that is a desperate need for graduates with those qualifications in teaching. There maybe lots of people in teaching, but they tend to have degrees like English Lit., Media Studies, Art, etc.
As for the job and benefits, I'm looking at going for a graduate scheme in the NHS to work as a clinical scientist (in particular a Medical Physicist), where I spend my first three years doing a masters and practical training in hospital, whilst being paid to do so, and afterwards start at £25-30,000 a year, with the ability to rise to £60,000, getting a pension and all the perks of working for the NHS.
And the work? Teaching doesn't just stop and start at school hours - from the teachers we talked to during the Student Associate scheme, most teachers will be doing work till 8-9pm at night, at least, and during 'holidays' often have to come in for training, summer school schemes, etc. It's not as easy as you think.
[B]Update[/B]
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[*]The [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13959244"]Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson says 90% of police staff[/URL] who handle calls from the public have not turned up for work and as a result officers were responding more slowly to requests for help
[*] [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13973319"]About 30,000 workers are on strike in Scotland, [/URL] including staff at the Scottish parliament, the passport office in Glasgow and civilian employees at defence establishments such as HMS Naval Base Faslane
[*] In Wales, [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13971468"]all national museums have been closed to the public[/URL] and the DVLA is operating a reduced service
[*] [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-13969762"]Home Office employees are among 3,000 people striking in Northern Ireland. [/URL] Belfast International Airport has warned of possible flights delays as immigration and customs officers join the action
[*] There are PCS pickets outside the Old Bailey but the courts are open. At Inner London Crown Court, there are no trials sitting with juries and the PCS union says other Crown, magistrates and coroners courts are disrupted
[*] The Maritime and Coastguard Agency said there have been some walkouts but all coastguard stations are "operational and appropriately manned"
[*] The Department of Work and Pensions said 18 Jobcentre Plus offices across the country were closed, and 40% of staff were on strike
[*] In London, where police leave has been cancelled, union leaders and activists marched to Westminster for a rally
[*] In [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-13963407"]Liverpool, some 537 out of the 550 staff at the passport office are on strike.[/URL] Most civil servants at Ministry of Defence and Criminal Records Bureau offices in the city have also walked out
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[QUOTE=Camundongo;30799626]I'm currently studying physics, and I and my classmates recieved several emails from the DoE asking us to consider teaching, and many friends I know from college who went on to study the sciences recieved similiar emails.
I also signed up for the Student Associate Scheme, which was targeted at Science, IT and Technology students, and there we were told that is a desperate need for graduates with those qualifications in teaching. There maybe lots of people in teaching, but they tend to have degrees like English Lit., Media Studies, Art, etc.
As for the job and benefits, I'm looking at going for a graduate scheme in the NHS to work as a clinical scientist (in particular a Medical Physicist), where I spend my first three years doing a masters and practical training in hospital, whilst being paid to do so, and afterwards start at £25-30,000 a year, with the ability to rise to £60,000, getting a pension and all the perks of working for the NHS.
And the work? Teaching doesn't just stop and start at school hours - from the teachers we talked to during the Student Associate scheme, most teachers will be doing work till 8-9pm at night, at least, and during 'holidays' often have to come in for training, summer school schemes, etc. It's not as easy as you think.[/QUOTE]
Ok, so the DoE has a shortage need of science and technology teachers. That still doesn't change anything of what I was talking about. A growing population and a shortage of graduates could easily account for that.
It's nice to hear what you are planning on doing, but I don't see how it has anything to do with what we are talking about. Obviously there are many,many alternatives to teaching.
Even if teachers spent a 7-8 hour extra day every week (unpaid) doing schoolwork, correcting homework etc. That still would mean they work a comfortable 6 day week. And "training"? To be honest, I'm not sure how it's done in the UK, but here, "training" simply means a meet-up of teachers for 2 hours where they have tea and biscuits and a small bit of actual training. And those only happen about 5 days a year. They are also paid for those training days. And summer school schemes? They are paid extra for those, and that is not part of the typical teaching year.
I never said it is easy, but it's definitely one of the more comfortable jobs out there. Thousand of of private sector workers have been laid off, and many more hundreds of thousands have received huge pay cuts. Now that the public sector's pay is finally being brought down to the rest of the country by a small margin, there are strikes all over the place.
[QUOTE=Caesar;30800264]Ok, so the DoE has a shortage need of science and technology teachers. That still doesn't change anything of what I was talking about. A growing population and a shortage of graduates could easily account for that.
It's nice to hear what you are planning on doing, but I don't see how it has anything to do with what we are talking about. Obviously there are many,many alternatives to teaching.
Even if teachers spent a 7-8 hour extra day every week (unpaid) doing schoolwork, correcting homework etc. That still would mean they work a comfortable 6 day week. And "training"? To be honest, I'm not sure how it's done in the UK, but here, "training" simply means a meet-up of teachers for 2 hours where they have tea and biscuits and a small bit of actual training. And those only happen about 5 days a year. They are also paid for those training days. And summer school schemes? They are paid extra for those, and that is not part of the typical teaching year.
I never said it is easy, but it's definitely one of the more comfortable jobs out there. Thousand of of private sector workers have been laid off, and many more hundreds of thousands have received huge pay cuts. Now that the public sector's pay is finally being brought down to the rest of the country by a small margin, there are strikes all over the place.[/QUOTE]
My step mum is a teacher and.. you are kind of right. She is head of science as well as being a trained maths and PE teacher, she gets around £45,000 per year and last time she worked in the school holidays, she was paid an additional £25 per hour. Training days do exist and they do actually have to go in and train.
They do have targets to meet, the worse the school the more of a pay rise you get if the children you teach get high GCSE grades.
But just because you are on a high wage doesn't mean you will just 'accept' being told your retirement age is going up, you will be paying more taxes, and your pension will be lower.
Also it's not just teachers
They should just deal with it. They should understand that the government needs to make cuts so that they will have a pension in the future. The unions are a load of short sighted selfish cunts.
[QUOTE=Caesar;30800264]Ok, so the DoE has a shortage need of science and technology teachers. That still doesn't change anything of what I was talking about. A growing population and a shortage of graduates could easily account for that.
It's nice to hear what you are planning on doing, but I don't see how it has anything to do with what we are talking about. Obviously there are many,many alternatives to teaching.
Even if teachers spent a 7-8 hour extra day every week (unpaid) doing schoolwork, correcting homework etc. That still would mean they work a comfortable 6 day week. And "training"? To be honest, I'm not sure how it's done in the UK, but here, "training" simply means a meet-up of teachers for 2 hours where they have tea and biscuits and a small bit of actual training. And those only happen about 5 days a year. They are also paid for those training days. And summer school schemes? They are paid extra for those, and that is not part of the typical teaching year.
I never said it is easy, but it's definitely one of the more comfortable jobs out there. Thousand of of private sector workers have been laid off, and many more hundreds of thousands have received huge pay cuts. Now that the public sector's pay is finally being brought down to the rest of the country by a small margin, there are strikes all over the place.[/QUOTE]
The NHS thing is important because it's a clear sign that even within the public sector, teaching is unattractive. There has been mass layoffs in the public sector as well along with freezes, and the people affected by this have been told they now have to pay more money to recieve a smaller pension.
As for pay cuts, you can't legally cut someone's pay unless they agree to it, and forcing them to can result in the employer being taken to an industrial tribunal. Now, people may have had their pay frozen, but that puts them in the same boat as the majority of a public sector workers.
There's also a pension loss calculator here [URL]http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/news_and_events/pcs_comment/index.cfm/id/F7573F1C-70AA-4A82-A06E7D767F3FF9DA[/URL]
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[QUOTE=matt.ant;30800346]My step mum is a teacher and.. you are kind of right. She is head of science as well as being a trained maths and PE teacher, she gets around £45,000 per year and last time she worked in the school holidays, she was paid an additional £25 per hour. Training days do exist and they do actually have to go in and train.
They do have targets to meet, the worse the school the more of a pay rise you get if the children you teach get high GCSE grades.
But just because you are on a high wage doesn't mean you will just 'accept' being told your retirement age is going up, you will be paying more taxes, and your pension will be lower.
Also it's not just teachers[/QUOTE]
I'd just like to say that I've absolutely no problem with teachers being paid well. They definitely deserve a nice salary. But there's no point in denying that it's one of the more comfortable jobs in existence because it is. And I do understand that it's not just teachers, it's the entire public sector too. I'm just annoyed about the unions striking over cuts at times like this, because [b]everbody[/b] is taking cuts in the private sector.
[QUOTE=The mouse;30800417]They should just deal with it. They should understand that the government needs to make cuts so that they will have a pension in the future. The unions are a load of short sighted selfish cunts.[/QUOTE]
This exactly!
[QUOTE=The mouse;30800417]They should just deal with it. They should understand that the government needs to make cuts so that they will have a pension in the future. The unions are a load of short sighted selfish cunts.[/QUOTE]
The problem here is on both sides - if the government had actually gone to the negotiation table, instead of repeatably damning the unions in the press instead. Have the unions overreacted? Yes, probably, but the Government didn't seem to be particulary active in trying to stop the strike either.
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