Doctors identify brain abnormalities in Cuba sound-based attack patients - Polidicks

[quote]Doctors treating the U.S. Embassy victims of mysterious, invisible attacks in Cuba have discovered brain abnormalities as they search for clues to explain the hearing, vision, balance and memory damage, The Associated Press has learned. It’s the most specific finding to date about physical damage, showing that whatever it was that harmed the Americans, it led to perceptible changes in their brains. The finding is also one of several factors fueling growing skepticism that some kind of sonic weapon was involved. Medical testing has revealed the embassy workers developed changes to the white matter tracts that let different parts of the brain communicate, several U.S. officials said, describing a growing consensus held by university and government physicians researching the attacks. White matter acts like information highways between brain cells. Loud, mysterious sounds followed by hearing loss and ear-ringing had led investigators to suspect “sonic attacks.” But officials are now carefully avoiding that term. The sounds may have been the byproduct of something else that caused damage, said three U.S. officials briefed on the investigation. They weren’t authorized to discuss it publicly and demanded anonymity. Physicians, FBI investigators and U.S. intelligence agencies have spent months trying to piece together the puzzle in Havana, where the U.S. says 24 U.S. government officials and spouses fell ill starting last year in homes and later in some hotels. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Wednesday he’s “convinced these were targeted attacks,” but the U.S. doesn’t know who’s behind them. A few Canadian Embassy staffers also got sick. Doctors still don’t know how victims ended up with the white matter changes, nor how exactly those changes might relate to their symptoms. U.S. officials wouldn’t say whether the changes were found in all 24 patients. But acoustic waves have never been shown to alter the brain’s white matter tracts, said Elisa Konofagou, a biomedical engineering professor at Columbia University who is not involved in the government’s investigation. “I would be very surprised,” Konofagou said, adding that ultrasound in the brain is used frequently in modern medicine. “We never see white matter tract problems.”[/quote] [url=https://www.apnews.com/bbed1d7f6f1a4320a7e60abfdce67d4d/Doctors-identify-brain-abnormalities-in-Cuba-attack-patients]AP[/url]

:frown: That's awful. I assume they were poisoned then, but regardless of the cause that's a really terrible thing to do to someone.

this is some straight up supervillian origin story shit

If they don't believe these are the result of "Sonic Attacks" then what the fuck was all the reporting about THIS [MEDIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Nw5MLAu-kKs[/MEDIA] about? From where was this "recording" obtained? Is it just made up bullshit? Why the sudden change in story?

[QUOTE=Quark:;52951219]If they don't believe these are the result of "Sonic Attacks" then what the fuck was all the reporting about THIS [MEDIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Nw5MLAu-kKs[/MEDIA] about? From where was this "recording" obtained? Is it just made up bullshit? Why the sudden change in story?[/QUOTE] Because new symptoms have shown up. They suspected acoustic weapons but the victims are showing white matter changes and from what is known acoustics can't do that. The white matter changes may not even be related but they're now hesitant to point to a culprit. You have doctors dealing with an unknown ailment, expect the culprit to change quite a bit as new evidence comes forward.

[QUOTE=Omali;52951235]Because new symptoms have shown up. They suspected acoustic weapons but the victims are showing white matter changes and from what is known acoustics can't do that. The white matter changes may not even be related but they're now hesitant to point to a culprit. You have doctors dealing with an unknown ailment, expect the culprit to change quite a bit as new evidence comes forward.[/QUOTE] It is unfortunate when one has to repeat the OP because somebody didn't read it, isn't it? ;) I know this is a bit sassy, but I don't intend offence to anybody with this - just a friendly nudge. I would be very interested to find out the cause of this. It has been on my mind somewhat, the last few months. It feels like a weapon that only the US, Russia or China have an interest in creating.

If it's penetrating into the brain and causing changes in white matter, what could it be? Directed microwave weapons? Radiation poisoning?

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;52951282]If it's penetrating into the brain and causing changes in white matter, what could it be? Directed microwave weapons? Radiation poisoning?[/QUOTE] Microwaves would have caused heat to build up, as the brain is mostly water, and water is mainly hydrogen, which is what microwaves heat so effectively. Also, microwaves are not ionizing radiation, so they can't cause cell damage like xrays, gamma rays, etc.

[QUOTE=Quark:;52951219]If they don't believe these are the result of "Sonic Attacks" then what the fuck was all the reporting about THIS [MEDIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Nw5MLAu-kKs[/MEDIA] about? From where was this "recording" obtained? Is it just made up bullshit? Why the sudden change in story?[/QUOTE] I assumed those videos were artists reconstructions based on what the embassy staff reported. It seems pretty unlikely that the US would allow such a recording to be made public during their investigation.

[QUOTE=Dan The Man;52951268]It is unfortunate when one has to repeat the OP because somebody didn't read it, isn't it? ;) I know this is a bit sassy, but I don't intend offence to anybody with this - just a friendly nudge. I would be very interested to find out the cause of this. It has been on my mind somewhat, the last few months. It feels like a weapon that only the US, Russia or China have an interest in creating.[/QUOTE] I did read the OP, I'm just completely befuddled as to how the story revolving around the alleged recording cropped up in the first place? If there's a recording of a sound that was allegedly being played at the victims, but the truth doesn't involve the sound, then where did the recording come into play? That's what I'm talking about..

[QUOTE=Dan The Man;52951319]Microwaves would have caused heat to build up, as the brain is mostly water, and water is mainly hydrogen, which is what microwaves heat so effectively. Also, microwaves are not ionizing radiation, so they can't cause cell damage like xrays, gamma rays, etc.[/QUOTE] It's DNA damage that they don't cause. They can still heat cells up and cook them. Either way, microwaves don't penetrate that well, and even if they could make it through the skin, muscles, and bone skull, they'd burn the skin first due to absorption. It could be very low frequency high amplitude infrasound, but that's more likely to cause bleeding in the lungs and mini hemorrhagic strokes.

Time to speculate: loud weird noise, white matter tract damage White matter tract connects your gray matter together, like electrical cabling Baseless speculation: someone found out how to generate a very powerful em field potentially at the resonance frequency of the nodes of ranvier, or the axons overall. Loud weird noise could have been from someone producing an extremely powerful em field, sounds potentially like the kind of circuit noise you'd expect I don't know enough about brain physiology to say though, and googling gives nothing The other potential option might be a loud sound that was at the resonant frequency of the human skull which maybe could have caused internal damage This is all just baseless speculation and I suspect the numbers don't work out on anything I'm saying. Super creepy though, completely terrifying that this is possible, its the sort of thing you read about in a sci fi book and hope never comes to fruition

[QUOTE=Icedshot;52951860]Time to speculate: loud weird noise, white matter tract damage White matter tract connects your gray matter together, like electrical cabling Baseless speculation: someone found out how to generate a very powerful em field potentially at the resonance frequency of the nodes of ranvier, or the axons overall. Loud weird noise could have been from someone producing an extremely powerful em field, sounds potentially like the kind of circuit noise you'd expect I don't know enough about brain physiology to say though, and googling gives nothing The other potential option might be a loud sound that was at the resonant frequency of the human skull which maybe could have caused internal damage This is all just baseless speculation and I suspect the numbers don't work out on anything I'm saying. Super creepy though, completely terrifying that this is possible, its the sort of thing you read about in a sci fi book and hope never comes to fruition[/QUOTE] that kind of EM field would have produced noticeable signatures though, and would've required quite a bit of power and no small amount of hardware to affect embassy officials [I]and[/I] their spouses. Given that it affected more than just the embassy staff, I'm willing to be some kind of bioweapon or targeted contanimation of their food/water supply.

Okay, if I read that article in a book or a videogame I would be very invested in the story Are they gonna grow superpowers or something

This sounds like something out of early season 1 Agents of Shield. My bet is the knee did this.

[QUOTE=paindoc;52952460]that kind of EM field would have produced noticeable signatures though, and would've required quite a bit of power and no small amount of hardware to affect embassy officials [I]and[/I] their spouses. Given that it affected more than just the embassy staff, I'm willing to be some kind of bioweapon or targeted contanimation of their food/water supply.[/QUOTE] Not to mention the fact that the US embassy would have EM shielding around the building to prevent bugging

[QUOTE=zombini;52951370]It's DNA damage that they don't cause. They can still heat cells up and cook them. Either way, microwaves don't penetrate that well, and even if they could make it through the skin, muscles, and bone skull, they'd burn the skin first due to absorption. Mobile phones use low frequency microwaves, and they don't cause damage to cells' DNA, was my point. :) It could be very low frequency high amplitude infrasound, but that's more likely to cause bleeding in the lungs and mini hemorrhagic strokes.[/QUOTE] Obviously heat can cause damage, including to DNA, but it should have been clear from my post that I understood that, as I mentioned how it would have made them hot, yet nobody reported that as a symptom. There's no way you could make a long range microwave emitter at an intensity high enough to heat cells to death without it being extremely obvious.

[QUOTE=Dan The Man;52951319]Microwaves would have caused heat to build up, as the brain is mostly water, and water is mainly hydrogen, which is what microwaves heat so effectively. Also, microwaves are not ionizing radiation, so they can't cause cell damage like xrays, gamma rays, etc.[/QUOTE]Adding onto this, microwave damage is also characterized by cataracts forming in a short time span. Something the victims have not been diagnosed with. :chem101:

[QUOTE=WhyNott;52952666]Okay, if I read that article in a book or a videogame I would be very invested in the story Are they gonna grow superpowers or something[/QUOTE] considering they have hearing, vision, and memory damage, it wouldn't even matter

[QUOTE=Karmah;52958098]considering they have hearing, vision, and memory damage, it wouldn't even matter[/QUOTE] What if that [I]is[/I] their superpower? A stunted ability to hear, see, and form memories - sounds like they've gained the ability to be a wall.

[QUOTE=Quark:;52951219]If they don't believe these are the result of "Sonic Attacks" then what the fuck was all the reporting about THIS [MEDIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Nw5MLAu-kKs[/MEDIA] about? From where was this "recording" obtained? Is it just made up bullshit? Why the sudden change in story?[/QUOTE] yo dude NSFL

Amazing. Invisible weapons. I thought using low bass tones to make people shit themselves was terrible but this is even worse. Christ almighty.

[QUOTE=Quark:;52951219]Is it just made up bullshit?[/QUOTE] Yes. Cuba doesn't exactly have the money for crazy sci-fi bullshit like this. Nor do they have they have the motive.

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;52963200]Yes. Cuba doesn't exactly have the money for crazy sci-fi bullshit like this. Nor do they have they have the motive.[/QUOTE] Whilst I think that specific clip is likely bullshit, neither funds nor a national motive are required for a splinter group to want to inflict damage on diplomats. We don't have enough information to make the determination you are.

As the article points out, there may have never been any sound at all. The reported sounds may have been due to damage to the brain. When the injuries were occurring, the areas that process sound could malfunction and create the "sounds" heard by affected staff. That would be consistent with both the sounds being described differently by different victims, and the fact that nobody else heard the sounds.

This is fucking terrifying and I sincerely hope that we get to the bottom of it.

Crazy idea, Could be virus that injects itself into cells inside the brain.Staying dormant untill a specific sound fequency is introduced which causes the cells to burst.

[QUOTE=dark soul;52963577]Crazy idea, Could be virus that injects itself into cells inside the brain.Staying dormant untill a specific sound fequency is introduced which causes the cells to burst.[/QUOTE] Haha, no. Whilst resonant frequencies can cause structural damage to things, the amount of work that would have to go into preparing for such a hair-brained scheme is legendary. I mean, why go to all that effort to synchronise this magic virus' release? Additionally, viruses cause fever, and I don't believe these people had fevers, or indeed a higher white blood count.

[QUOTE=dark soul;52963577]Crazy idea, Could be virus that injects itself into cells inside the brain.Staying dormant untill a specific sound fequency is introduced which causes the cells to burst.[/QUOTE] You've played MGSV recently, huh?

[QUOTE=Dan The Man;52963297]Whilst I think that specific clip is likely bullshit, neither funds nor a national motive are required for a splinter group to want to inflict damage on diplomats. We don't have enough information to make the determination you are.[/QUOTE] I was talking specifically about the government of Cuba. And we have years of information to say that [I]they're [/I]not behind it.