• The Escapist Publisher Issues Public Statement on Gamergate
    37 replies, posted
In the middle of the last few weeks of firestorm in the gaming community, Escapist has set to work revising its ethics policy and correcting mistakes in its past reporting. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/1mjdjMZ.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/9uiAsTC.png[/IMG] Well they just finished and published the note about it. It is a very good read, but I'll quote some highlights. Its not exclusively just about their site, but also discusses some of the issues at large in this whole incident. Seriously, give the full article a read, it is well worth it. [quote]Nowadays more people than ever play games, and that's a wonderful thing! But let us not be fooled: Not everyone who plays games is a gamer. A gamer is a game enthusiast, a person whose primary hobby or avocation is the enjoyment of games. The "enjoyment of games" is a deeper pursuit than merely playing them. It encompasses dedication towards their mastery; understanding of their history; commentary on the design; insight as to their relationships into the web of source material from which they are derived. Every field of human leisure has similarly dedicated individuals. Everyone drives, but not everyone is a gearhead. A gearhead is a car enthusiast - someone whose primary hobby is the enjoyment of automobiles, broadly understood to include fixing them, modifying them, studying them, and driving them. Everyone wears clothes, but not everyone is a fashionista, or fashion enthusiast. Everyone eats, but not everyone is a foodie, or food enthusiast. Everyone watches movies, but not everyone is a cinemaphile, or movie enthusiast. Everyone takes trips, but not everyone is a traveler, or vacation enthusiast. I could go on and on. Because these dedicated individuals have interests within their field that are deeper than those of the average consumer, they sort themselves into communities of like-minded enthusiasts. The existence of these communities in turn creates opportunities for businesses, which support the communities with news, apparel, supplementary media, and accessories that are designed to be of interest to that community. The collection of the enthusiast's media, community, and businesses creates that field's enthusiast culture.[/quote] [quote]Can we imagine for a moment the editors of Gearhead magazine or Top Gear announcing that gearhead culture is dead because everyone drives now? The notion is laughable. [/quote] [quote]This type of absurdity does not happen in the automotive industry because car companies understand that creating consumer goods is not a zero sum game. By segmenting their market and selling products that are different for each segment, they can service the mainstream and the enthusiast.[/quote] [quote][B]But gamer culture is not dying. It has simply been bruised by the spasms of a shell-shocked industry trying to figure out how best to stay in business during changing times. [/B] Fortunately, the big game publishers are beginning to realize that "one game to sell to them all" might be the wrong strategy. Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto recently declared that mainstream game consumers are "passive" and "kind of pathetic" and announced that Nintendo EAD will focus on core gamers, leaving the company's mobile division to expand the gaming population instead.[B] (What, nobody told Shigeru that gamers are dead? Huh.)[/B][/quote] [quote]A particularly problematic article, the one which generated his review, was about the alleged harassment of an indie developer by a forum community which denied the allegations but was itself victimized as a result of them. The article failed to cite the harassment as alleged, failed to give the forum community an opportunity present its point of view, and did not verify the claims or secure other sources. Mr. Tito has personally updated the article and spoken to all our editors about the importance of adhering to standards that will prevent such bad incidents from happening again. We, as a team, apologize for this error, both to our readers and to the forum community that suffered as a result. I, personally, apologize for this error, as well.[/quote] [URL]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/12223-The-Escapist-Publisher-Issues-Public-Statement-on-Gamergate[/URL]
It was a well done piece, good job to the Escapist!
Can somebody recap what happened for me? I read that there was a sex scandal involving one indie dev and a few other people in the indie games industry and now all of a sudden there are allegations of real actual fraud and publisher bigwigs are issuing press releases?
[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;45927970]Can somebody recap what happened for me? I read that there was a sex scandal involving one indie dev and a few other people in the indie games industry and now all of a sudden there are allegations of real actual fraud and publisher bigwigs are issuing press releases?[/QUOTE] game journalism is a joke and zoe quinn banged a bunch of inside people for good reviews for her shitty indie game and used her white knights across the internet to try and cover everything up once it got out and labeled gamers as dead because they're "misogynistic" for calling her a slut.
[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;45927970]Can somebody recap what happened for me? I read that there was a sex scandal involving one indie dev and a few other people in the indie games industry and now all of a sudden there are allegations of real actual fraud and publisher bigwigs are issuing press releases?[/QUOTE]Long story short, the original Zoe Quinn scandal was a small thing that grated on a number of people, but it wasn't necessarily something that would have taken off on its own. What the problem was is how much of the gaming journalism and indie dev scene responded, basically turning in to raving children attacking anyone who questioned her. It opened a floodgate that revealed that gaming journalist was rotten pretty much to the core in ways previously unknown and the indie scene, which was scene as a haven from these troubles, was more of a festering ground for them and basically gamers in general had been played for patsy and taken advantage of. From there, it has just been a raging firestorm as a large portion of the gaming community flat out refuses to let anyone responsible for the nepotism that has infected it to get away with it, leading to numerous revelations about journalists and devs and major indie organizations, including well backed claims of outright racketeering in the IGF. Also, can I say I'm really proud of Facepunch right now. Given how many people are reading this, yet how slow the posting is to take off, I think most people are taking my advice and reading the full article first.
basically nobody knows what misogyny means anymore and tosses it around like a 14 year old tosses around fascist when they don't get ice cream after dinner.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;45928036]Long story short, the original Zoe Quinn scandal was a small thing that grated on a number of people, but it wasn't necessarily something that would have taken off on its own. What the problem was is how much of the gaming journalism and indie dev scene responded, basically turning in to raving children attacking anyone who questioned her. It opened a floodgate that revealed that gaming journalist was rotten pretty much to the core in ways previously unknown and the indie scene, which was scene as a haven from these troubles, was more of a festering ground for them and basically gamers in general had been played for patsy and taken advantage of. From there, it has just been a raging firestorm as a large portion of the gaming community flat out refuses to let anyone responsible for the nepotism that has infected it to get away with it, leading to numerous revelations about journalists and devs and major indie organizations, including well backed claims of outright racketeering in the IGF.[/QUOTE] Ok I think I got most of it, but I'm still confused on a few points. Mainly, all at once a bunch of websites and blogs posted about the "death of gamers." I'm confused because it seems like an orchestrated campaign, but who has the influence to make these independent sites all post the same editorial? Also what does it accomplish for this party to proclaim gamers as dead? Also where do the fine young capitalists crowdfunding campaign fit into this? What are the revelations about journalists and devs? From what I read its just conflict of interest from some journalists and their financial stakes in games they write about. Plus the IGF thing. Is there anything else?
Tow the line!
[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;45928155]Ok I think I got most of it, but I'm still confused on a few points. Mainly, all at once a bunch of websites and blogs posted about the "death of gamers." I'm confused because it seems like an orchestrated campaign, but who has the influence to make these independent sites all post the same editorial? Also what does it accomplish for this party to proclaim gamers as dead? [B]Also where do the fine young capitalists crowdfunding campaign fit into this? [/B] What are the revelations about journalists and devs? From what I read its just conflict of interest from some journalists and their financial stakes in games they write about. Plus the IGF thing. Is there anything else?[/QUOTE] zoe claimed that they were against transgender women. in actuality, tfyc had consulted with a canadian ethics board or something and they had said the safest thing to be was "unless you have documentation from DMV or other similar body indicating you as a recognized female, we will not accept it" it wasn't because they disliked transgender people, it was for the transgender person's safety, as them participating in a women only contest could be used as evidence as them being a transgender person. after the backlash, which i don't think was deserved, they revised their policy to be self identified before a certain date.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;45928209]zoe claimed that they were against transgender women. in actuality, tfyc had consulted with a canadian ethics board or something and they had said the safest thing to be was "unless you have documentation from DMV or other similar body indicating you as a recognized female, we will not accept it" it wasn't because they disliked transgender people, it was for the transgender person's safety, as them participating in a women only contest could be used as evidence as them being a transgender person. after the backlash, which i don't think was deserved, they revised their policy to be self identified before a certain date.[/QUOTE] Wasn't her problem with TFYC mainly the 8% figure they'd be paying people? The transgender thing was resolved fairly early on and Quinn stopped talking about it because it became apparent that she was fairly wrong.
[QUOTE=GeneralSpecific;45928155]Ok I think I got most of it, but I'm still confused on a few points. Mainly, all at once a bunch of websites and blogs posted about the "death of gamers." I'm confused because it seems like an orchestrated campaign, but who has the influence to make these independent sites all post the same editorial? Also what does it accomplish for this party to proclaim gamers as dead? Also where do the fine young capitalists crowdfunding campaign fit into this? What are the revelations about journalists and devs? From what I read its just conflict of interest from some journalists and their financial stakes in games they write about. Plus the IGF thing. Is there anything else?[/QUOTE] I can't give you anything on the "death of gamers" front, but The Fine Young Capitalists are a group of people who made a contest asking women to give them ideas for a game, perhaps even posting concept art and whatnot. Zoe Quinn submitted one, and she got denied, so she called her cry of misogyny on the TFYC. Naturally this attracted 4chan because Zoe Quinn. 4chan ended up donating a bunch of money to the campaign, and developing their own character Vivian James as one of the rewards (You might have seen her on some the avatars around here - Red Hair, striped shirt, tired look). So because of 4chan supporting apparently some SJWs got pissed and hacked some stuff and fucked up TFYC. That's where I lost it and never really tried to find it again.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45928294]Wasn't her problem with TFYC mainly the 8% figure they'd be paying people? The transgender thing was resolved fairly early on and Quinn stopped talking about it because it became apparent that she was fairly wrong.[/QUOTE] By stopped talking about it do you mean posted something along the lines of "Lol I guess we accidentally DDOSd them"?
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;45928036] I think most people are taking my advice and reading the full article first.[/QUOTE] yeah man I'm sure its all you and not that people are just tired of hearing about something going on in an industry as serious as gaming journalism
[QUOTE=Thlis;45928311]By stopped talking about it do you mean posted something along the lines of "Lol I guess we accidentally DDOSd them"?[/QUOTE] Yeah. She realized the transphobe thing didn't hold water and flippantly waved it away. Never said she conducted herself with grace here.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;45928356]yeah man I'm sure its all you and not that people are just tired of hearing about something going on in an industry as serious as gaming journalism[/QUOTE]Well, with 50+ people reading the thread at any given time... [editline]8th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;45928385]Yeah. She realized the transphobe thing didn't hold water and flippantly waved it away. Never said she conducted herself with grace here.[/QUOTE]She posted 44 posts about them at the time. It wasn't until just a week or so ago that she actually apologized or showed the faintest actual remorse for the incident.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45928294]Wasn't her problem with TFYC mainly the 8% figure they'd be paying people? The transgender thing was resolved fairly early on and Quinn stopped talking about it because it became apparent that she was fairly wrong.[/QUOTE] AFAIK it was pretty much the trans policies that riled up ZQ, I don't remember any mention of this 8% figure in any of her or Maya's tweets about the issue while they doxxed one of the people working with TFYC.
When I was a kid I wanted to grow up and be a game developer. Now I'm 19, in a CS program. If I had to work in the game dev industry I think I'd shoot myself at this point
[QUOTE=xxncxx;45928405]AFAIK it was pretty much the trans policies that riled up ZQ, I don't remember any mention of this 8% figure in any of her or Maya's tweets about the issue while they doxxed one of the people working with TFYC.[/QUOTE] Matt from TFYC said she took offense to the 8% thing, saying "why should women make video games for free?"
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45928294]Wasn't her problem with TFYC mainly the 8% figure they'd be paying people? The transgender thing was resolved fairly early on and Quinn stopped talking about it because it became apparent that she was fairly wrong.[/QUOTE] yeah, that was a problem she had but she was markedly wrong about what that even means in the context
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45928294]Wasn't her problem with TFYC mainly the 8% figure they'd be paying people? The transgender thing was resolved fairly early on and Quinn stopped talking about it because it became apparent that she was fairly wrong.[/QUOTE] Though keep in mind, the person they'd be paying only had to come up with an idea, TFYC would be doing all the work making it.
[QUOTE=JesterUK;45928454]Matt from TFYC said she took offense to the 8% thing, saying "why should women make video games for free?"[/QUOTE] Depression quest is free.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45928822]Depression quest is free.[/QUOTE] even Zoe's warped mind couldn't justify charging for it and yeah it's free to play but it wasn't free to develop, those funds came from a game jam zoe set up herself after TFYC got doxxed
[QUOTE=JesterUK;45928855]even Zoe's warped mind couldn't justify charging for it[/QUOTE] Well no one in their right mind would pay to play it, it's more of a PSA about what it's like to live with severe depression, and I honestly thought it did a pretty good job of it
[QUOTE=JesterUK;45928855]even Zoe's warped mind couldn't justify charging for it[/QUOTE] I think it's worth bringing up again that Zoe wasn't the only developer of Depression Quest.
[QUOTE=Ericson666;45929171]Well no one in their right mind would pay to play it, it's more of a PSA about what it's like to live with severe depression, and I honestly thought it did a pretty good job of it[/QUOTE] I'm not sure if severe depression is anywhere near what goes on in that gamething, I tried it a while back to humor myself during a bout of depression and the person depicted in depression quest is less competent than Shinji Ikari of Neon Genesis Evangelion. (lol anime comparisons) I guess it's the severe part, or maybe she doesn't understand how depression works. It made me more frustrated at the game than I was with myself, so that was good at least.
From my understanding, it accurately portrays some aspects of depression well, but then it does some weird thing where there is a very clear, easy to follow "win" path where you basically end up as the happiest person ever with the perfect partner and your dream job. I genuinely have no interest in it and I'm likely never going to play it, hence why I don't comment on it pretty much ever.
[QUOTE=GammaFive;45929317]I'm not sure if severe depression is anywhere near what goes on in that gamething, I tried it a while back to humor myself during a bout of depression and the person depicted in depression quest is less competent than Shinji Ikari of Neon Genesis Evangelion. (lol anime comparisons) I guess it's the severe part, or maybe she doesn't understand how depression works. It made me more frustrated at the game than I was with myself, so that was good at least.[/QUOTE] Imagine something being so bad it doesn't just disappoint or shock you, it makes you angry. That is NGE for me. It wasn't even "so bad it's good", it was just plain shit. It had no redeeming qualities and it was so goddamn terrible I was even mad at the fans just for liking it. If Depression Quest is worse than that, I'm not even going to look at it: that much hate and rage, I'd probably spawn a chaos god or something.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;45928445]When I was a kid I wanted to grow up and be a game developer. Now I'm 19, in a CS program. If I had to work in the game dev industry I think I'd shoot myself at this point[/QUOTE] Hey now, I work in that industry and I feel like everything has relatively remained calm. There are still completely decent indie developers out there and honest game reviewers, the vast majority I would say, that don't get involved in this mess. But they're obviously not taking the spotlight. It seems to me that the people who so dramatically claim that games are dead or that the industry is dead, are the people that don't have real insight into the industry's state.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45928294]Wasn't her problem with TFYC mainly the 8% figure they'd be paying people? The transgender thing was resolved fairly early on and Quinn stopped talking about it because it became apparent that she was fairly wrong.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=RayvenQ;45928813]Though keep in mind, the person they'd be paying only had to come up with an idea, TFYC would be doing all the work making it.[/QUOTE] To give perspective, being given 8% for merely providing an idea is extremely uncommon. The common practice is normally that people which only provide an idea doesn't get any cut of the profits from the final product, unless they're the one funding the salaries of the people working on their idea. The programmers in this project has raised a charity to pay their salaries and to give a very unique opportunity for someone without any experience in game development to have their idea made for them free of charge, plus 8% of the final profits. This is a very generous and rare deal.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;45928445]When I was a kid I wanted to grow up and be a game developer. Now I'm 19, in a CS program. If I had to work in the game dev industry I think I'd shoot myself at this point[/QUOTE] Im 21 next week and I wanted to be a game developer all my life. since the age of 4 I've drawn character and level designs and create entire games on paper up until the age of 10 when I started programming and making games. Nowadays I'm studying IT, majoring in software engineering and I still want to make games. This incident has given me more to work for, to help be a part of the solution.
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