Leipzig leftist club reports sexual attacks by refugees
31 replies, posted
[QUOTE]The anti-racist, anti-sexist Conne Island Club in Leipzig caused a stir with a statement about sexual violence by refugees. But it was also keen not to align itself with populist racism, Ben Knight reports from Leipzig.
The Conne Island Club has put itself on the margins in more ways than one. The club is hidden from the road, tucked between a narrow river and a highway on the edge of the city's trendy Connewitz district. It also wears its politics on its walls, both inside and out, which are covered with "Antifascist" graffiti and "Refugees Welcome" stickers.
The Conne Island Club has put itself on the margins in more ways than one. The club is hidden from the road, tucked between a narrow river and a highway on the edge of the city's trendy Connewitz district. It also wears its politics on its walls, both inside and out, which are covered with "Antifascist" graffiti and "Refugees Welcome" stickers.
But on October 7, the club's political position became more subtle: it issued a 1,200-word article on its website entitled "One step forward, two steps back," which trod a careful path between the media's two predominant images of Germany over the past year: the applauding "Welcome Culture" volunteer-crowds at Munich train station and the anti-immigrant PEGIDA marches of Saxony.
The club initially aligned itself with the former (partly as an angry response to the racism of the latter), and offered space for integration projects like skateboarding workshops and German courses, while allowing refugees entry for 50 euro-cents ($0.55).
But, according to Conne Island's statement, "sexist advances and physical attacks have occurred more frequently … in Conne Island and other clubs - with the consequence that female guests have stayed away."
"I wouldn't say we were naive," she added. "Of course at the beginning, the mood was more: 'let's get this done' - now we're realizing that there certainly are difficulties. I've noticed that personally as well, that we've landed in reality and I have to draw boundaries about what we want in the Südcafe."[/QUOTE]
Source: [url]http://www.dw.com/en/leipzig-leftist-club-reports-sexual-attacks-by-refugees/a-36099316[/url]
[quote]"Saying all refugees are innocent is just as wrong as saying they're all evil," he told DW.[/quote]
refugees are human beings and a lot of human beings come socialised with a tonne of bad attitudes (in this case, living in a brutally misogynist authoritarian culture) which leads to crimes like these. that doesn't mean they weren't suffering in the places they came from or that they didn't have good reason to emigrate.
from what I've seen, these attitudes may be overcome with time and work. it must be the responsibility of the german government to ensure that everyone is granted the chance to learn these things, because they made the humanitarian decision to let them in.
[editline]22nd October 2016[/editline]
[quote]
"I wouldn't say we were naive," she added. "Of course at the beginning, the mood was more: 'let's get this done' - now we're realizing that there certainly are difficulties. I've noticed that personally as well, that we've landed in reality and I have to draw boundaries about what we want in the Südcafe."[/quote]
Lesson of the day. Everyone is human. Which bounds them to be either nice as hell or fucked up as hell.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51243943]You heavily imply that suffrage legitimizes crime.[/QUOTE]
absolutely not. at least, that wasn't my intention. anyone who commits crimes deserves to be prosecuted equally under the law. I'm just saying, these attitudes don't come from nowhere and they can be changed. refugees and immigrants aren't a lost cause or an irredeemably wrecked culture because of the prevalence of bad attitudes. nobody explicitly said that they are yet, but it's a common theme in these types of threads.
[quote]
Just because they came from misogynistic oppressive regimes doesn't mean that they should not be held accountable and responsible for their actions. How human beings are socialized is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to criminality. It helps to understand why, it doesn't offer vindication, and it sure as hell helps to understand which demographic is statistically prone to crime in general.[/QUOTE]
I'm in agreement with you?
[editline]22nd October 2016[/editline]
also "suffrage" means the right to vote, not suffering
In the end all you should do is treat everyone by the same rules.
If they do these crimes, they get punished according to the laws of the society and then they hopefully won't do that crime again.
[QUOTE=Turnips5;51243791]refugees are human beings and a lot of human beings come socialised with a tonne of bad attitudes (in this case, living in a brutally misogynist authoritarian culture) which leads to crimes like these. that doesn't mean they weren't suffering in the places they came from or that they didn't have good reason to emigrate.
from what I've seen, these attitudes may be overcome with time and work. it must be the responsibility of the german government to ensure that everyone is granted the chance to learn these things, because they made the humanitarian decision to let them in.
[editline]22nd October 2016[/editline][/QUOTE]
You're a pushover
[QUOTE=Tarver;51244228]You're a pushover[/QUOTE]
How so?
Striving to understand to understand why a certain population has problems does not mean you excuse them of said problems. Frankly, by being ignorant of the big picture of these issues, you do not help your own case.
[QUOTE=Tarver;51244228]You're a pushover[/QUOTE]
you're a dead philosopher
[editline]22nd October 2016[/editline]
maybe my first post was unwarranted and tone deaf. sexual assault should be punished under the law. that should be the be all and end all. sorry if I ended up implying something different.
[QUOTE=da space core;51244247]How so?
Striving to understand to understand why a certain population has problems does not mean you excuse them of said problems. Frankly, by being ignorant of the big picture of these issues, you do not help your own case.[/QUOTE]
Ignorance is bliss for some people who cannot or will not question their own beliefs or their legitimacy thereof. It's easy to find something to blame without understanding that real life is more complicated than they'd like to believe.
[quote] I've noticed that personally as well, that [b]we've landed in reality[/b] and I have to draw boundaries about what we want in the Südcafe."[/quote]
Funny, when they been accusing everyone else from not being in reality when saying not all refugees are peaceful, reality catches up to them.
It would be interesting if they had a way of requiring Refugees to go through a course of western culture. Educational and all that. It might produce jobs and stimulate the economy even.
[QUOTE=omarfr;51244888]It would be interesting if they had a way of requiring Refugees to go through a course of western culture. Educational and all that. It might produce jobs and stimulate the economy even.[/QUOTE]
Most countries do I think, for immigrants. At least for us, you aren't becoming a US citizen without being required to take a civics class & test for example.
but yeah doesn't quite apply for refugees
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51244964]Most countries do I think, for immigrants. At least for us, you aren't becoming a US citizen without being required to take a civics class & test for example.
but yeah doesn't quite apply for refugees[/QUOTE]
No thats like night and day different.
[QUOTE=omarfr;51244888]It would be interesting if they had a way of requiring Refugees to go through a course of western culture. Educational and all that. It might produce jobs and stimulate the economy even.[/QUOTE]
Obstacles aside, do you really think a short course on fundamental values of the developed world would make a difference for people who act like this?
[QUOTE=Turnips5;51243791]refugees are human beings and a lot of human beings come socialised with a tonne of bad attitudes (in this case, living in a brutally misogynist authoritarian culture) which leads to crimes like these. that doesn't mean they weren't suffering in the places they came from or that they didn't have good reason to emigrate.
from what I've seen, these attitudes may be overcome with time and work. it must be the responsibility of the german government to ensure that everyone is granted the chance to learn these things, because they made the humanitarian decision to let them in.
[editline]22nd October 2016[/editline][/QUOTE]
They may have been socialised in and come from an environment with shitty social attitudes but from the moment they're taken in by another state they better be ready to abide by and accept the standards and social decencies of that country. There is no choice, they either roll with it or they're dragged kicking and screaming - especially when it comes to behaviour towards their fellow human beings.
Germans commit assault. Facepunch doesn't give a shit.
Refugees commit assault (even if they commit crimes at a lower rate than the native Germans) Facepunch froths at the mouth.
[QUOTE=Dolton;51246209]Germans commit assault. Facepunch doesn't give a shit.
Refugees commit assault (even if they commit crimes at a lower rate than the native Germans) Facepunch froths at the mouth.[/QUOTE]
Facepunch does care when people attack other people. The only difference here is that the people who're committing sexual assault are not from Germany but wish to permanently reside there which gives a lot of trouble which I can sympathize with, imho.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51245061]IDK about USA but citizenship test here is quite ridicilous. I mean what are they gonna ask?
Here are some questions:
Who is generally responsible for the care of a child?
- The parents
- The state
- The relatives
- The schools
Pick the german coat of arms
[IMG]http://www.einbuergerungstest-online.eu/img/fragen/021.png[/IMG]
I never studied for it and I did 27/33 on an online test right now. Why am I supposed to wait 7 years for, I dont know.[/QUOTE]
- the parents, and #1 is the coa
also i got 28/33
i think anyone with a basic understanding of secular western values and a bit of history and geography can pass this test
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51243943]You heavily imply that suffrage legitimizes crime.
Just because they came from misogynistic oppressive regimes doesn't mean that they should not be held accountable and responsible for their actions. How human beings are socialized is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to criminality. It helps to understand why, it doesn't offer vindication, and it sure as hell helps to understand which demographic is statistically prone to crime in general.[/QUOTE]
You heavily imply that you don't know what "suffrage" means
saudi arabia is the only country where women have the right not to suffer
checkmate
[QUOTE=Turnips5;51243791]refugees are human beings and a lot of human beings come socialised with a tonne of bad attitudes (in this case, living in a brutally misogynist authoritarian culture) which leads to crimes like these. that doesn't mean they weren't suffering in the places they came from or that they didn't have good reason to emigrate.
from what I've seen, these attitudes may be overcome with time and work. it must be the responsibility of the german government to ensure that everyone is granted the chance to learn these things, because they made the humanitarian decision to let them in.
[editline]22nd October 2016[/editline][/QUOTE]
You're missing a few things.
1. We all have individual agency
2. You're going to care less about an in group you're not a part of
3. Most refugees aren't from war torn countries, and they don't stop at the first peaceful place, they go to what state offers the most benefits
4. The only responsibility of the german state is deporting immigrants that commit crimes
5. These attitudes aren't going to be overcome because there's no emphasis on assimilation and newer generations are even less assimilated than their parents
[QUOTE=Conscript;51247372]
3. Most refugees aren't from war torn countries, and they don't stop at the first peaceful place, they go to what state offers the most benefits[/QUOTE]
This is demonstrably BS. Vast majority of refugees stop as soon as possible, thus the enormous amounts of displaced people in countries right next to conflict zones like Turkey, Pakistan and Iran. But when it comes to discussing about islamic states carrying their responsibility, you mostly hear about Saudi-Arabia not accepting them. Which they don't. East European countries don't accept them.
[B]Edit:
[/B]
Also idea that most refugees aren't from war torn countries is based in misconception that Syrian is the only one with war. The same war takes place also in Iraq which is a source of large number of rfugees to Europe, and Taliban insurrection in Afghanistan never really ended.
[QUOTE=Dolton;51246209]Germans commit assault. Facepunch doesn't give a shit.
Refugees commit assault (even if they commit crimes at a lower rate than the native Germans) Facepunch froths at the mouth.[/QUOTE]
In all honesty it's just a few people here with that nonlogic. Most people, including those that I may occasionally disagree with, are still pretty sensible
[QUOTE=Vlevs;51247813]
Also idea that most refugees aren't from war torn countries is based in misconception that Syrian is the only one with war. The same war takes place also in Iraq which is a source of large number of rfugees to Europe, and Taliban insurrection in Afghanistan never really ended.[/QUOTE]
Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan only make up 51% of sea arrivals in the Mediterranean in 2016.
[QUOTE=Kecske;51249890]Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan only make up 51% of sea arrivals in the Mediterranean in 2016.[/QUOTE]
The others are from Africa, yes? Does anyone have the numbers for how many refugees in total came to Europe via the Mediterranean in 2016 so far?
[QUOTE=Vlevs;51247813]This is demonstrably BS. Vast majority of refugees stop as soon as possible, thus the enormous amounts of displaced people in countries right next to conflict zones like Turkey, Pakistan and Iran. But when it comes to discussing about islamic states carrying their responsibility, you mostly hear about Saudi-Arabia not accepting them. Which they don't. East European countries don't accept them.
[B]Edit:
[/B]
Also idea that most refugees aren't from war torn countries is based in misconception that Syrian is the only one with war. The same war takes place also in Iraq which is a source of large number of rfugees to Europe, and Taliban insurrection in Afghanistan never really ended.[/QUOTE]
To add on to that, there're also wars being fought in Yemen and Libya.
heh a club tucked away and covered in refugees welcome stickers
wonder what goes on in there :smug:
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