Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman - Polidicks

[quote] ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed. The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all. Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness. What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about. The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail. Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to. And from that moment to the shooting, details are few. But one man's testimony could be key for the police. "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said. Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red. The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera. His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman. "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said. Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.[/quote] [url]http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012[/url]

Wow, sure is getting interesting isn't it.

This is old news and doesn't really matter unless someone comes forward about how the confrontation actually started. He can hardly claim it was self defense when he got out of the car after being told not to and went after Martin, since there is obviously more to this and a reason that Martin attacked him. There is also the fact that if they were rolling around on the floor, they would have had to be separated for him to be able to pull his gun out and shoot, its hardly self defense when you arent fighting anymore. At least, as far as I know the 'Hold your ground' law doesnt apply if you are the person who instigated the incident, Zimmerman seemed quite pissed off when he called 911 so I wouldnt put it past him going up to Martin and causing the fight.

More importantly this is a typical murder, why does anyone give a single fuck?

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286330]More importantly this is a typical murder, why does anyone give a single fuck?[/QUOTE] Because unlike most murders it's playing out in the public eye. It's also dealing with potential unjustified racism vs. the enforcement of a racial stereotype. Also did anyone else think that was a horribly written article? [QUOTE]A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.[/QUOTE] That seems a convoluted way of saying: [I]A new witness may play a key role in the ongoing trial surrounding the shooting death of 17 year old Trayvon Martin[/I]

I still blame Zimmerman for going after him when the police quite clearly told him not to.

Ah, now I understand. He was on the ground being beat up by the black guy and someone managed to stand up, while still on the ground being beat up, and shoot him. Then shoot him again, all this while fearing for his life because he's on the ground being beat up. There really is no way to spin this on anyone besides Zimmerman. He shouldn't have confronted him in the first place, he had no reason to as he was not tress trespassing. You can't just think someone might break the law and act upon it.

[QUOTE=Mlisen14;35286374]Because unlike most murders it's playing out in the public eye. It's also dealing with potential unjustified racism vs. the enforcement of a racial stereotype. Also did anyone else think that was a horribly written article? That seems a convoluted way of saying: [I]A new witness may play a key role in the ongoing trial surrounding the shooting death of 17 year old Trayvon Martin[/I][/QUOTE] It's a black kid, who was shot by a white guy, why is this instantly assumed it's racist? Admittedly I'm not exhaustively keeping up with this situation so i have likely missed some details, but did Zimmerman actually DO or say anything that indicated that this was racially motivated?

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286500]It's a black kid, who was shot by a white guy, why is this instantly assumed it's racist? Admittedly I'm not exhaustively keeping up with this situation so i have likely missed some details, but did Zimmerman actually DO or say anything that indicated that this was racially motivated?[/QUOTE] Well, it does fit the narrative.

[QUOTE=Splendor;35286509]Well, it does fit the narrative.[/QUOTE] No it doesn't, god fucking damnit just because the shooter and the victim are two different colours doesn't mean it's racist. If I have the story right, there was essentially a scuffle or an argument at zimmermans home and the kid left to head home, the police arrived and advised zimmerman not to follow the kid which he did anyway, there was a fight against and zimmerman shot the kid. Now I'm not saying "oh this is clearly not racially motivated!" it very well could be, but on the other hand zimmerman might just be a dumb schmuck with major anger issues, frankly no one can know for certain so far.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286564]No it doesn't, god fucking damnit just because the shooter and the victim are two different colours doesn't mean it's racist. If I have the story right, there was essentially a scuffle or an argument at zimmermans home and the kid left to head home, the police arrived and advised zimmerman not to follow the kid which he did anyway, there was a fight against and zimmerman shot the kid. Now I'm not saying "oh this is clearly not racially motivated!" it very well could be, but on the other hand zimmerman might just be a dumb schmuck with major anger issues, frankly no one can know for certain so far.[/QUOTE] If I remember it was because the dude was a neighborhood watch captain, who called police on the kid walking to/from the store, and then went after the kid (presumably with a firearm) despite the 911 operator telling him not to. There was also something about the kid begging for 45~ seconds, but I don't follow the case that well.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286564]No it doesn't, god fucking damnit just because the shooter and the victim are two different colours doesn't mean it's racist. If I have the story right, there was essentially a scuffle or an argument at zimmermans home and the kid left to head home, the police arrived and advised zimmerman not to follow the kid which he did anyway, there was a fight against and zimmerman shot the kid. Now I'm not saying "oh this is clearly not racially motivated!" it very well could be, but on the other hand zimmerman might just be a dumb schmuck with major anger issues, frankly no one can know for certain so far.[/QUOTE] I think you need to reevaluate my post and realize that I was being snarky with the rabid libruls of FP. They'd never use a term like narrative in a situation like this, atleast not consciously.

[QUOTE=RichardCQ;35286695]If I remember it was because the dude was a neighborhood watch captain, who called police on the kid walking to/from the store, and then went after the kid (presumably with a firearm) despite the 911 operator telling him not to. There was also something about the kid begging for 45~ seconds, but I don't follow the case that well.[/QUOTE] Wait, what? I sort of assumed the kid like actually done something wrong. I'll watch this a little more closely then before I make a final judgement.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286708]Wait, what? I sort of assumed the kid like actually done something wrong. I'll watch this a little more closely then before I make a final judgement.[/QUOTE] I think this was the first news post claiming that. The story was that he was coming back from the store after buying a snack and a soda. Then the neighborhood watch guy called the cops, and then confronted him to my understanding.

If Zimmerman confronted the kid, surely something happened?

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286741]If Zimmerman confronted the kid, surely something happened?[/QUOTE] I was under the impression that Zimmerman confronted him while brandishing his firearm, but I don't know. The case is too new and sensationalist for anything to be really concrete.

Yeah but surely if Zimmerman pulled a gun on the guy, he must have done something to illicit the response. Surely people don't just whip guns out on people in America?

I don't feel like I have sufficient information to make an opinion about this case.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286762]Yeah but surely if Zimmerman pulled a gun on the guy, he must have done something to illicit the response. Surely people don't just whip guns out on people in America?[/QUOTE] It happens all the time.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286762]Yeah but surely if Zimmerman pulled a gun on the guy, he must have done something to illicit the response. [B]Surely people don't just whip guns out on people in America?[/B][/QUOTE] I wouldn't be so sure.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286762]Yeah but surely if Zimmerman pulled a gun on the guy, he must have done something to illicit the response. Surely people don't just whip guns out on people in America?[/QUOTE] I actually know a guy who lives in Baltimore and has been shot at twice while just walking along the sidewalk.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286762]Yeah but surely if Zimmerman pulled a gun on the guy, he must have done something to illicit the response. Surely people don't just whip guns out on people in America?[/QUOTE] Martin was crying and screaming for 45 seconds before zimmerman shot him.

[QUOTE=Red scout?;35286829]Martin was crying and screaming for 45 seconds before zimmerman shot him.[/QUOTE] Yeah I know that but that doesn't mean anything when i'm talking about what happened PRIOR to that moment. What I mean is, did Martin insult him or aggravate him (shit reasons to pull a gun I know) or did Zimmerman literally just walk over to him and start beating the shit out of him? [editline]25th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=RichardCQ;35286823]I actually know a guy who lives in Baltimore and has been shot at twice while just walking along the sidewalk.[/QUOTE] That's mongo'd as fuck, how can anyone justify having firearms as freely available as they are in America?

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286849]Yeah I know that but that doesn't mean anything when i'm talking about what happened PRIOR to that moment. What I mean is, did Martin insult him or aggravate him (shit reasons to pull a gun I know) or did Zimmerman literally just walk over to him and start beating the shit out of him? [editline]25th March 2012[/editline] That's mongo'd as fuck, how can anyone justify having firearms as freely available as they are in America?[/QUOTE] Martin was wearing a hoodie. That was enough to convince Zimmerman that the kid was a gangbanger.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286849] That's mongo'd as fuck, how can anyone justify having firearms as freely available as they are in America?[/QUOTE] A better question is how anyone can justify living in Baltimore, but I agree with you.

[QUOTE=The Vman;35286889]Martin was wearing a hoodie. That was enough to convince Zimmerman that the kid was a gangbanger.[/QUOTE] Bullshit there's gotta be more to it than that.

a. howd he get a clean shot through the heart if they were struggling? b. i dont think the voice in the 911 call sounded like the pic of zimmerman c. the witness only just came forward? find if hes related to zimmerman d. get back to me

[QUOTE=LADLEMAO;35286977]a. howd he get a clean shot through the heart if they were struggling? b. i dont think the voice in the 911 call sounded like the pic of zimmerman c. the witness only just came forward? find if hes related to zimmerman d. get back to me[/QUOTE] b. Is retarded as hell, a lot of people don't look like you expect them to from their voice. c. Witnesses don't always immediately come forward, they might need time to ponder what they saw. Besides eye witnesses are bullshit, their initial testimoney is all their worth, everything else is a waste.

They really don't need to make a fake witness, it's not like they were going to punish Zimmerman anyway.

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;35286500]It's a black kid, who was shot by a white guy, why is this instantly assumed it's racist? Admittedly I'm not exhaustively keeping up with this situation so i have likely missed some details, but did Zimmerman actually DO or say anything that indicated that this was racially motivated?[/QUOTE] No, it's being considered as a racist act because Zimmerman has an apparent history of calling the police every time he sees a black kid, assuming the kid is a criminal.