• U.S. to hold CEE military exercises in Poland
    36 replies, posted
[quote]The United States is preparing military exercises in Poland that could involve Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and the Baltics, the U.S. ambassador to Poland was quoted as saying on Friday.[/quote] The ex-Warsaw Pact, now against Russia. Also Poland just signed stronger military cooperation agreements with Romania and Lithuania. Poland and Romania will buy Patriot missile systems [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/21/us-poland-usa-military-idUSBREA2K0VL20140321"]Source[/URL]
All these knee-jerk reactions are so unnecessary, it's ridiculous. It'd be a different matter if Russia just waltzed into Ukraine for no reason, but it didn't. It waltzed into Ukraine after the country had been through a series of long, several month-old riots that swept through the country and were then followed by a violent governmental change. Unless any of the states neighboring Russia are planning coups against their respective governments, Russia won't be invading anyone.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44309743]All these knee-jerk reactions are so unnecessary, it's ridiculous. It'd be a different matter if Russia just waltzed into Ukraine for no reason, but it didn't. It waltzed into Ukraine after the country had been through a series of long, several month-old riots that swept through the country and were then followed by a violent governmental change. Unless any of the states neighboring Russia are planning coups against their respective governments, Russia won't be invading anyone.[/QUOTE] Ummmm...they did that with Georgia.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44309743]All these knee-jerk reactions are so unnecessary, it's ridiculous. It'd be a different matter if Russia just waltzed into Ukraine for no reason, but it didn't. It waltzed into Ukraine after the country had been through a series of long, several month-old riots that swept through the country and were then followed by a violent governmental change. Unless any of the states neighboring Russia are planning coups against their respective governments, Russia won't be invading anyone.[/QUOTE] No it's perfectly necessary, and they kinda DID just waltz the fuck in and flipped off Ukraine and everyone else in the civilized world with a "what are you gonna do about it?" Sanctions, diplomatic isolation and spooling up NATO is what we're gonna do about it.
Doesn't matter if Russia will or won't. It's a message saying that the former USSR and warsaw pact won't be fucking bullied by Russia anymore.
Then there is the fact that [B]THEY DID[/B] waltz into Ukraine for no reason other than, "So that Crimea place...." They could've waited outside for the referendum.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44309743]All these knee-jerk reactions are so unnecessary, it's ridiculous.[/quote] I don't think you understand what's the point of these exercises. It's a show of power. It's basically a huge middle finger to Russia and also a statement that they will put up a fight rather than succumb to any invading force. I also expect Russia to do the same thing in the coming months. So, by far it's all cool as long as exercises, instead of invasions, are held. Deterrence is 100% more efficient than any war. No one dies, factories produce more guns, and shells are bullets are spent hitting the ground.
[quote] Poland and Romania will buy Patriot missile systems [/quote] This red scare mongering is working out pretty well for the US/Raytheon (they manufacture it aparently).
[QUOTE=Melnek;44309743]All these knee-jerk reactions are so unnecessary, it's ridiculous. It'd be a different matter if Russia just waltzed into Ukraine for no reason, but it didn't. It waltzed into Ukraine after the country had been through a series of long, several month-old riots that swept through the country and were then followed by a violent governmental change. Unless any of the states neighboring Russia are planning coups against their respective governments, Russia won't be invading anyone.[/QUOTE] They waltzed in, made faces at everyone else, rushed the referendum, [I]rigged[/I] said referendum, and forced the Ukrainians out under the guise of "protecting ethnic russians" Literally every country in that area right now is shitting their pants because now Russia is gazing over there and saying "I should protect those ethnic russians" Seriously, stereotypical US interests is to Oil as current russian interests is to ethnic russians.
[QUOTE=Savant231A;44309840] Deterrence is 100% more efficient than any war. No one dies, factories produce more guns, and shells are bullets are spent hitting the ground.[/QUOTE] lol nah. Deterrence isn't always effective.
Never saw that coming.
[QUOTE=TestECull;44309909]lol nah. Deterrence isn't always effective.[/QUOTE] Let me rephrase that: Deterrence is more effective than sending young men to die.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44309743]All these knee-jerk reactions are so unnecessary, it's ridiculous. It'd be a different matter if Russia just waltzed into Ukraine for no reason, but it didn't. It waltzed into Ukraine after the country had been through a series of long, several month-old riots that swept through the country and were then followed by a violent governmental change. Unless any of the states neighboring Russia are planning coups against their respective governments, Russia won't be invading anyone.[/QUOTE] Kinda hypocritical for you to say they're knee-jerk reacting when you live in a country that bombs civilians when some people that hate you throw a few rockets over the fence.
[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;44310061]Kinda hypocritical for you to say they're knee-jerk reacting when you live in a country that bombs civilians when some people that hate you throw a few rockets over the fence.[/QUOTE] He's also a native russian btw, take that into consideration
[QUOTE=ionuttzu;44310098]He's also a native russian btw, take that into consideration[/QUOTE] Flagdog has failed me yet again.
[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;44310136]Flagdog has failed me yet again.[/QUOTE] He moved to Israel after the USSR collapsed (or sometime close to that), flagdog is right about that.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44309743]All these knee-jerk reactions are so unnecessary, it's ridiculous. It'd be a different matter if Russia just waltzed into Ukraine for no reason, but it didn't. It waltzed into Ukraine after the country had been through a series of long, several month-old riots that swept through the country and were then followed by a violent governmental change. Unless any of the states neighboring Russia are planning coups against their respective governments, Russia won't be invading anyone.[/QUOTE] Why so judgmental? This is a NATO excercise on NATO territory, not an armed intervention in Ukraine. Russia has been making an inordinate number of large excercises along its western border ever since Maidan began.
[QUOTE=GoldenDargon;44310061]Kinda hypocritical for you to say they're knee-jerk reacting when you live in a country that bombs civilians when some people that hate you throw a few rockets over the fence.[/QUOTE] Come on, that's not a real argument and you know it.
[QUOTE=Swilly;44309800]Ummmm...they did that with Georgia.[/QUOTE] Georgia and Ukraine are two separate situations however. Its been a long time since reading anything of it but if i remember right the South Ossetians used Russian border towns to stock up during their civil war and georgian forces were pretty indiscriminant of what side of the border was it they'd shell. Ukraine didn't do anything like that so it was more unprovoked.
Poland. The hero Europe needs. [video=youtube;QCy68CWDKVE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCy68CWDKVE[/video]
[QUOTE=Melnek;44309743]It waltzed into Ukraine after the country had been through a series of long, several month-old riots that swept through the country and were then followed by a violent governmental change.[/QUOTE] I don't see how a country going through a revolution gives Russia the right to invade, the same shit happened in Syria but what did Russia say to that? "Veto. Let's not intervene, it's their problem." I bet if Ukraine went the way of Syria they wouldn't have done shit either, but since their puppet was successfully kicked out this time, they had to throw a shit fit, it's why Russia invaded when the revolution was pretty much over. Yanukovych had already been kicked out, Berkut disbanded, shit was calming down and then they came in.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;44311454]I don't see how a country going through a revolution gives Russia the right to invade, the same shit happened in Syria but what did Russia say to that? "Veto. Let's not intervene, it's their problem."[/QUOTE] Russia is very strict that countries don't meddle in other countries' "internal affairs". It just happens that Russia considers Ukraine in general and Crimea in particular as its "internal affair". Historic territory, ethnic citizens and all that jazz.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44309743]All these knee-jerk reactions are so unnecessary, it's ridiculous. It'd be a different matter if Russia just waltzed into Ukraine for no reason, but it didn't. It waltzed into Ukraine after the country had been through a series of long, several month-old riots that swept through the country and were then followed by a violent governmental change. Unless any of the states neighboring Russia are planning coups against their respective governments, Russia won't be invading anyone.[/QUOTE] Why has literally everyone already forgot that the entire reason there was riots is because Russia was trying to bully Ukraine out of joining the EU and using their PM as a puppet. It's not like Ukraine just suddenly burst into riots for giggles and then Russia moved their military in to save the day, that's an insane view of what's going on
[QUOTE=Elspin;44311522]Why has literally everyone already forgot that the entire reason there was riots is because Russia was trying to bully Ukraine out of joining the EU and using their PM as a puppet. It's not like Ukraine just suddenly burst into riots for giggles and then Russia moved their military in to save the day, that's an insane view of what's going on[/QUOTE] melnek isn't a very clever fellow
[QUOTE=Elspin;44311522]Why has literally everyone already forgot that the entire reason there was riots is because Russia was trying to bully Ukraine out of joining the EU and using their PM as a puppet. It's not like Ukraine just suddenly burst into riots for giggles and then Russia moved their military in to save the day, that's an insane view of what's going on[/QUOTE] Because if America is involved in any situation in the world. It obviously means they want to conquer it and go for hidden Polish oil.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;44311955]Because if America is involved in any situation in the world. It obviously means they want to conquer it and go for hidden Polish oil.[/QUOTE] Because obviously we only get our oil and natural gas from enemy nations and not ourselves. And we obviously don't have global power projection, unlike every other nation in the world.
[QUOTE=Elspin;44311522]Why has literally everyone already forgot that the entire reason there was riots is because Russia was trying to bully Ukraine out of joining the EU and using their PM as a puppet. It's not like Ukraine just suddenly burst into riots for giggles and then Russia moved their military in to save the day, that's an insane view of what's going on[/QUOTE] No shit, that still doesn't mean Russia is going to invade any of its neighboring nations. And the only reason it went to Ukraine is because there are close historical, cultural and political ties between Ukraine (specifically, Crimea) and Russia including a majority of ethnic Russians and a very important port. People are treating it as if there were no special justifications or circumstances for the invasion to occur and that's false. All these political muscle flexing from the Baltic states, Poland, and other nations are absolutely pointless.
[QUOTE=Savant231A;44310047]Let me rephrase that: Deterrence is more effective than sending young men to die.[/QUOTE] Not really? War is what you have when deterrence fails.
[QUOTE=ionuttzu;44309332]The ex-Warsaw Pact, now against Russia.[/QUOTE] poland absolutely hated soviet control. the nation was like 95% catholic at one point, and moscow refused to let the pope visit. and there's also the part where stalin and hitler made a secret agreement to split up poland on the terms of non-aggression toward one another in 1939, which led to the rape and murder of thousands of poles at the hands of the red army.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44313732]No shit, that still doesn't mean Russia is going to invade any of its neighboring nations. And the only reason it went to Ukraine is because there are close historical, cultural and political ties between Ukraine (specifically, Crimea) and Russia including a majority of ethnic Russians and a very important port. People are treating it as if there were no special justifications or circumstances for the invasion to occur and that's false. All these political muscle flexing from the Baltic states, Poland, and other nations are absolutely pointless.[/QUOTE] No they're not. They're to prevent Russia from "strengthening ties" with Russians in other sovereign nations. Let's have a shitty metaphor. Say, you're a farmer. More specifically, a potato farmer. There is a neighboring farmer that farms carrots, but also has a field full of potatoes. There's a divorce in the other farmer's family and therefore there's quite a bit of drama going on. You then decide that, since you're a potato farmer, it gives you a right on the other farmer's plot of land because he is growing potatoes there. Instead of waiting until the drama dies down and trying to negotiate for the land, you just say that it's yours and pretend nothing is wrong. It's a shitty and generalized metaphor, but it's essentially what happened between Russia and Ukraine.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.