• Tiny insect brains can solve big problems
    41 replies, posted
[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33974286/ns/technology_and_science-science/[/url] [quote] Insects may have tiny brains, but they can perform some seriously impressive feats of mental gymnastics. According to a growing number of studies, some insects can count, categorize objects, even recognize human faces — all with brains the size of pinheads. Despite many attempts to link the volume of an animal's brain with the depth of its intelligence, scientists now propose that it's the complexity of connections between brain cells that matters most. Studying those connections — a more manageable task in a little brain than in a big one — could help researchers understand how bigger brains, including those of humans, work. Figuring out how a relatively small number of cells work together to process complex concepts could also lead to "smarter" computers that do some of the same tasks. "The question is: If these insects can do these things with such little brains, what does anything need a big brain for?" said Lars Chittka, who presented his arguments along with colleague Jeremy Niven in the journal Current Biology. "Bigger isn't necessarily better, and in some cases it could be quite the opposite." Because we are intelligent animals with big brains, people have long assumed that big brains are smarter brains. Yet, scientists have found scant evidence to support that view, Chittka said. Studies that have made those connections are fraught with problems. "If you try many measurements," he said, "Eventually you will find one that shows a correlation." There's a lot of evidence, on the other hand, that overall size is irrelevant when it comes to brain power. Among humans, individuals with larger noggins don't have higher IQs. Whales, with brains that weigh up to 20 pounds and have more than 200 billion neurons, are no smarter than people, with our measly 3-pound brains that have just 85 billion neurons. Eight insects with ‘ick’ factor Many insects provide humans with unheralded services such as pollination, sustenance and pest control, but some of them gross us out – or worse. Instead of contributing intelligence, big brains might just help support bigger bodies, which have larger muscles to coordinate and more sensory information coming in. Like computers, Chittka said, size might add storage capacity but necessarily speed or usefulness. At the same time, it takes a lot of energy to support a big brain. On a smaller scale, scientists are finally moving past the idea that locusts, ants, bees and other insects are simple machines that respond to events in predictable ways, said Sarah Farris, an evolutionary neurobiologist at West Virginia University in Morgantown. Study after study now shows that insects can, in fact, change their behavior depending on the circumstances. Honeybees, which have been the focus of Chittka's work, have tiny brains with fewer than a million neurons. Yet, the insects can classify shapes as symmetrical or asymmetrical. They can pick objects based on concepts like "same" or "different." They can also learn to stop flying after a prescribed number of landmarks rather than after a certain distance. Ants and bees have notoriously complex social systems. Along with other insects, they can move in a surprising number of ways to communicate or get around. Bees, for example, can sting, scout for food, guard the hive and fan their wings for ventilation, along with more than 50 other behaviors. The insect's behavioral repertoire, in fact, surpasses that of some vertebrates.” "They are fantastically smart," Chittka said. "Perhaps we are only amazed by this because we think small brains shouldn't be able to do it." [/quote] Think about that every time you step on a bug. :science:
Who would have figured.
Brains aren't about size, it's about how many connections there are to and from every neuron.(I think)
[QUOTE=ShitBalls;19255106]Brains aren't about size, it's about how many connections there are to and from every neuron.(I think)[/QUOTE] Synapses.
Well then, I always thought they were simple myself, and they respond to events in a certain way. But this changes things.
A just killed a spider :P [editline]01:12PM[/editline] Oh wait that's an arachnid nevermind
I've figured this is true for a while. Just because something has a larger brain does not make it automatically a more powerful system. Look at birds for example. Many birds exhibit critical thinking skills when it comes to finding food, or avoiding prey.
-snip- :ninja:
How is this news, I thought it was proven a long time ago that the amount of connections between the neurons is the important thing, not the amount of neurons.
Don't kill bugs with other bugs around, they'll remember you and come for you in your sleep.
[QUOTE=Master117;19255206]I've figured this is true for a while. Just because something has a larger brain does not make it automatically a more powerful system. Look at birds for example. Many birds exhibit critical thinking skills when it comes to finding food, or avoiding prey.[/QUOTE] A CPU would have been a better example.
[QUOTE=venn177;19255321]Still no scientific explanation as to how bees fly, though...[/QUOTE] what? I'm pretty sure there has been an explanation for quite some time.
[QUOTE=venn177;19255321]Still no scientific explanation as to how bees fly, though...[/QUOTE] That's just an urban legend and untrue.
[QUOTE=Septok;19255443]what? I'm pretty sure there has been an explanation for quite some time.[/QUOTE] There has. As it happens, the "bees can't fly" myth started because of a drunk physicist trying to work out the aerodynamics. He got it wrong, the biologists duly ignored him, while the rest of the world spread the myth. It wasn't until much later that the biologists noticed that people were taking that crap seriously.
"Is not the size, but how you use it that counts :smug:" [img]http://tonova.typepad.com/thesuddencurve/atom_ant.jpg[/img] [i]Atom Ant[/i]
[quote][B]Yet, the insects can classify shapes as symmetrical or asymmetrical. They can pick objects based on concepts like "same" or "different."[/B] They can also learn to stop flying after a prescribed number of landmarks rather than after a certain distance.[/quote] I want to know how they figured this out.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;19255384]How is this news, I thought it was proven a long time ago that the amount of connections between the neurons is the important thing, not the amount of neurons.[/QUOTE] because facepunch can't make connections. :v: [editline]06:49PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Pretiacruento;19255892]"Is not the size, but how you use it that counts :smug:" [img]http://tonova.typepad.com/thesuddencurve/atom_ant.jpg[/img] [i]Atom Ant[/i][/QUOTE] except for penises
and brains
How the hell would you know that an insect can count or recognise you?? It's not like you can just ask it!
[QUOTE=altofproudfoot;19255076]Bees, for example, can sting, scout for food, guard the hive and fan their wings for ventilation, along with more than 50 other behaviors. The insect's behavioral repertoire, in fact, surpasses that of some vertebrates.”[/QUOTE] [img]http://bigmikescience.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/couch-potato.jpg[/img] Don't worry dude, your neurons and synapses are just bad wired.
They may be intelligent to a certain degree, but it still doesn't put them over cats or any animal larger than a hamster.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;19256842]They may be intelligent to a certain degree, but it still doesn't put them over cats or any animal larger than a hamster.[/QUOTE] Except if you have a million insect brains linked to make one super brain. :smug:
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;19256842]They may be intelligent to a certain degree, but it still doesn't put them over cats or any animal larger than a hamster.[/QUOTE] Indeed, the bigger a brain is the more wiring can happen. If it actually happens depends on the animal itself.
Whole computers made out of insect brains. :O
[QUOTE=ShitBalls;19255106]Brains aren't about size, it's about how many connections there are to and from every neuron.(I think)[/QUOTE] But you are always limited by the total number of neurons you can use in the connections.
See kids, size doesn't matter. But that's not what she said :(
[QUOTE=Turnips5;19255915]I want to know how they figured this out.[/QUOTE] Phone survey
[QUOTE=venn177;19255321]Still no scientific explanation as to how bees fly, though...[/QUOTE] Because they flap their wings really fast :smug:
I knew they could tell which human has the flyswatter.
[QUOTE=Xystus234;19263433]I knew they could tell which human has the flyswatter.[/QUOTE] I know right? Those damn flies always hide when I'm around with the flyswatter D:
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