'Evil and Orwellian' – America's right turns its fire on Britain's NHS - Polidicks

[quote=The Guardian] The National Health Service has become the butt of increasingly outlandish political attacks in the US as Republicans and conservative campaigners rail against Britain's "socialist" system as part of a tussle to defeat Barack Obama's proposals for broader government involvement in healthcare. Top-ranking Republicans have joined bloggers and well-funded free market organisations in scorning the NHS for its waiting lists and for "rationing" the availability of expensive treatments. As myths and half-truths circulate, British diplomats in the US are treading a delicate line in correcting falsehoods while trying to stay out of a vicious domestic dogfight over the future of American health policy. Slickly produced television advertisements trumpet the alleged failures of the NHS's 61-year tradition of tax-funded healthcare. To the dismay of British healthcare professionals, US critics have accused the service of putting an "Orwellian" financial cap on the value on human life, of allowing elderly people to die untreated and, in one case, for driving a despairing dental patient to mend his teeth with superglue. Having seen his approval ratings drop, Obama is seeking to counter this conservative onslaught by taking his message to the public, with a "town hall" meeting today at a school in New Hampshire. Last week, the most senior Republican on the Senate finance committee, Chuck Grassley, took NHS-baiting to a newly emotive level by claiming that his ailing Democratic colleague, Edward Kennedy, would be left to die untreated from a brain tumour in Britain on the grounds that he would be considered too old to deserve treatment. "I don't know for sure," said Grassley. "But I've heard several senators say that Ted Kennedy with a brain tumour, being 77 years old as opposed to being 37 years old, if he were in England, would not be treated for his disease, because end of life – when you get to be 77, your life is considered less valuable under those systems." The degree of misinformation is causing dismay in NHS circles. Andrew Dillon, chief executive of the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice), pointed out that it was utterly false that Kennedy would be left untreated in Britain: "It is neither true nor is it anything you could extrapolate from anything we've ever recommended to the NHS." Others in the US have accused Obama of trying to set up "death panels" to decide who should live and who should die, along the lines of Nice, which determines the cost-effectiveness of NHS drugs. One right-leaning group, Conservatives for Patients' Rights, lists horror stories about British care on its website. An email widely circulated among US voters, of uncertain origin, claims that anyone over 59 in Britain is ineligible for treatment for heart disease. The British embassy in Washington is quietly trying to counter inaccuracies. A spokesman said: "We're keeping a close eye on things and where there's a factually wrong statement, we will take the opportunity to correct people in private. That said, we don't want to get involved in a domestic debate." A $1.2m television advertising campaign bankrolled by the conservative Club for Growth displays images of the union flag and Big Ben while intoning a figure of $22,750. A voiceover says: "In England, government health officials have decided that's how much six months of life is worth. If a medical treatment costs more, you're out of luck." The number is based on a ratio of £30,000 a year used by Nice in its assessment of whether drugs provide value for money. Dillon said this was one of many variables in determining cost-effectiveness of medicines. He said of his body's portrayal in the US: "It's very disappointing and it's not, obviously, the way in which Nice describes itself or the way in which we're perceived in the UK even among those who are disappointed or upset by our decisions." On Rupert Murdoch's Fox News channel, the conservative commentator Sean Hannity recently alighted upon the case of Gordon Cook, a security manager from Merseyside, who used superglue to stick a loose crown into his gum because he was unable to find an NHS dentist. The cautionary tale, which was based on a Daily Mail report from 2006, prompted Hannity to warn his viewers: "If the Democrats have their way, get your superglue ready." The broader tone of the US healthcare debate has become increasingly bitter. The former vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin last week described president Obama's proposals as "evil", while the radio presenter Rush Limbaugh has compared a logo used for the White House's reform plans to a Nazi swastika. Hecklers have disrupted town hall meetings called to discuss the health reform plans. David Levinthal, a spokesman for the nonpartisan Centre for Responsive Politics, said the sheer scale of the issue, which will affect the entire trajectory of US medical care, was arousing passions: "It's no surprise you have factions from every political stripe attempting to influence the debate and some of those groups are certainly playing to the deepest fears of Americans. There's been a great deal of documented disinformation propagated throughout the country." Defenders of Britain's system point out that the UK spends less per head on healthcare but has a higher life expectancy than the US. The World Health Organisation ranks Britain's healthcare as 18th in the world, while the US is in 37th place. The British Medical Association said a majority of Britain's doctors have consistently supported public provision of healthcare. A spokeswoman said the association's 140,000 members were sceptical about the US approach to medicine: "Doctors and the public here are appalled that there are so many people on the US who don't have proper access to healthcare. It's something we would find very, very shocking."[/quote] Original article: [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/11/nhs-united-states-republican-health?commentpage=1[/url] The ignorance is incredible

Well the NHS is quite messed up over here, deep debt and you always hear people complaining about it...

American's that are being ignorant = :downs: [editline]06:35PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Thom12255;16648498]Well the NHS is quite messed up over here, deep debt and you always hear people complaining about it...[/QUOTE] That's only because nobody puts enough cash in it. And the media being :downs:

[QUOTE=Thom12255;16648498]Well the NHS is quite messed up over here, deep debt and you always hear people complaining about it...[/QUOTE] You don't hear anyone wanting to get rid of it though, do you? Not even Thatcher had the balls to privatise healthcare in this country, it would have been and remains political suicide.

You know what I find INSULTING? That these men, being GOVERNMENT employees, get FREE health care. They like to talk down about OUR wishes for universal health care, but should they have to get their own? God no. Let us not FORGET, these are the same MOTHER FUCKING ASSHOLES who VOTED THEMSELVES a PAY RAISE EARLIER IN THE YEAR. Jesus fucking Christ.

In America haven't people died because they couldn't afford health care?

[QUOTE=Doozle;16648677]In America haven't people died because they couldn't afford health care?[/QUOTE] YES, YES WE FUCKING HAVE! This is fucking MIND BOGGLING.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or being sarcastic. Anyway, surely they can have a tax based health service along side private care?

This just in. Government sucks everywhere, people die everywhere, get over it.

[QUOTE=Neolk;16648644]You know what I find INSULTING? That these men, being GOVERNMENT employees, get FREE health care. They like to talk down about OUR wishes for universal health care, but should they have to get their own? God no. Let us not FORGET, these are the same MOTHER FUCKING ASSHOLES who VOTED THEMSELVES a PAY RAISE EARLIER IN THE YEAR. Jesus fucking Christ.[/QUOTE] lol @ uncited populist rage

[QUOTE=Doozle;16648815]I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or being sarcastic. Anyway, surely they can have a tax based health service along side private care?[/QUOTE] I'm agreeing with you. [QUOTE=Vandl92;16648819]This just in. Government sucks everywhere, people die everywhere, get over it.[/QUOTE] This is a completely morbid look on life, and is counter productive. Sure 'get over death', when you sit in your house well fed and safe, the problems people face you never even dream of having. "Slavery used to happen everywhere, get over it black people." People shouldn't DIE because of inadequate health care, anywhere. To say anything else is insulting. [QUOTE=Lankist;16648831]lol @ uncited populist rage[/QUOTE] [url]http://blog.nola.com/updates/2008/06/senators_vote_for_pay_increase.html[/url] [url]http://www.emaxhealth.com/10/18430.html[/url]

I'm sorry, how much of America is obese ? Fucking rednecks.

[QUOTE=jcallan;16648970]I'm sorry, how much of America is obese ? Fucking rednecks.[/QUOTE] Something funny like 60% or so.

Universal healthcare is virtually a requirement for a developed nation.

[QUOTE=Xesum;16649021]Something funny like 60% or so.[/QUOTE] 32%.

[QUOTE=jcallan;16648970]I'm sorry, how much of America is obese ?[/QUOTE] The obesity rates for the US and the UK aren't that far off, don't be a cockhead.

That's just disgusting. What gives them the right to not only drag our healthcare system into their pathetic debate, but also insult it to no end with their horribly inaccurate and, quite frankly, sleazy accusations? Bastards.

[QUOTE=Neolk;16648873][url]http://blog.nola.com/updates/2008/06/senators_vote_for_pay_increase.html[/url] [url]http://www.emaxhealth.com/10/18430.html[/url][/QUOTE] GG @ reading "As the bill heads to the House, it increases lawmakers' base pay from $16,800 a year to 30 percent of the annual salary of members of Congress, currently $169,000. That would mean the base pay of Louisiana lawmakers would be about $50,700." Senators didn't give themselves a payraise, they passed the raise in their part of the house and moved it to the floor for debate. Then again, you don't know how our government works so I wouldn't expect you to understand any of this. Also: "It has been 25 years since the pay was raised" The reason it was raised is because the base pay of 16,000 a year is extraordinarily low by today's standards. Shit I make more than that in the Private Sector.

It's a pity universal healthcare still wouldn't be able to cure ignorance. :sigh:

[QUOTE=Wiggles;16649158]That's just disgusting. What gives them the right to not only drag our healthcare system into their pathetic debate, but also insult it to no end with their horribly inaccurate and, quite frankly, sleazy accusations? Bastards.[/QUOTE] Uhh, the first amendment gives them that right.

[QUOTE=Wiggles;16649158]That's just disgusting. What gives them the right to not only drag our healthcare system into their pathetic debate, but also insult it to no end with their horribly inaccurate and, quite frankly, sleazy accusations? Bastards.[/QUOTE] The most it does is shows us in a better light because we're not the people insulting others healthcare.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16649150]32%.[/QUOTE] Thankyou.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16649183]Uhh, the first amendment gives them that right.[/QUOTE] Don't give me technicalities.

[QUOTE=Wiggles;16649293]Don't give me technicalities.[/QUOTE] Hahahahaha.

[QUOTE=Wiggles;16649293]Don't give me technicalities.[/QUOTE] I hope that was a joke.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;16649547]I hope that was a joke.[/QUOTE] Obviously... :ohdear:

This is hilarious. Remember kids, socialized health care is the devil! :pseudo:

There are quite a few good arguments against universal healthcare (I don't actually agree with them, but they exist) so why don't republicans use those? Bring up the cost issues instead of citing slippery slope arguments about socialism and death panels and killing old people and whatnot.

One portrays one side better then the other.

I'm not quite sure how you can possibly characterize a system whose aim is to keep all people healthy as evil, much less Orwellian, but good thing no one takes the right seriously.