• Pence backs Trump's Charlottesville rhetoric: 'I stand with the president'
    30 replies, posted
[quote]Vice President Mike Pence declined Wednesday to distance himself from President Donald Trump’s controversial doubling down on violence that occurred at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, over the weekend. “I spoke at length about this heartbreaking situation on Sunday night in Colombia,” Pence told reporters during a news conference in Chile alongside President Michelle Bachelet. “I stand with the president, and I stand by those words.” On Sunday, the vice president had said Trump “clearly and unambiguously condemned” what occurred, but the White House sought to clarify his comments in a statement attributed to an unnamed spokesperson who said the president’s condemnation “of course” includes white supremacists, the KKK, neo-Nazis and other extremist groups. Pence had gone further on Sunday than Trump, who did not single out those groups in his early comments last weekend. “We have no tolerance for hate and violence, from white supremacists, neo-Nazis or the KKK,” Pence said in Colombia on Sunday. “These dangerous fringe groups have no place in American public life and in the American debate, and we condemn them in the strongest possible terms.”[/quote] [url=http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/16/mike-pence-supports-trump-charlottesville-241708]Source: Politico[/url] I have no idea why he's even trying to defend this scumbag anymore; especially after taking a more hardline stance himself than Trump.
Pence is a well known racist not a surprise. He's also the VP, if he went against trump it would be gg for the administration.
yeah honestly i can't think of a time where the vice president would not defend the president
[QUOTE=cdr248;52580520]yeah honestly i can't think of a time where the vice president would not defend the president[/QUOTE] Says a lot about Pence, honestly. He shouldn't get a break from criticism because it's "just his job." Employment is an easy way to defer responsibility, and Pence is using it because he knows he's just expected to parrot the President. If he broke that expectation and stood up to intolerance at risk to his own career, that'd be worth respecting. Be careful not to excuse intolerance and hatred just because it's part of the job. That kind of normalization is dangerous - Pence had an opportunity to not be a lapdog and show his character, and he turned it down. He is as equally as despicable as Trump in this situation.
[QUOTE=cdr248;52580520]yeah honestly i can't think of a time where the vice president would not defend the president[/QUOTE] When the "grab her by the pussy" audio leaked, Pence abandoned him too
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52580511]Pence is a well known racist not a surprise. He's also the VP, if he went against trump it would be gg for the administration.[/QUOTE] he was also elected, trump can't fire a VP
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580589]Are we reading the same article? What intolerance is he not standing up to? Can someone tell me exactly what more you expect Pence to say or do or does it not matter because you just dislike him anyway?[/QUOTE] This is from his own statement on Sunday. Before Trump even made any statement. Now that Trump has made a statement, and then reversed on that statement, Pence is accepting Trump's latest opinion which is "there were fine people on both sides" and deflecting blame from Nazis to the "alt-left."
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580751]Except he didn't deflect blame. Trump literally said there was violence on both sides, and both sides were at fault. This is unequivocally true - both sides were at fault. I don't care if someone considers themselves a white supremacist or a nazi, that doesn't give you the right to use violence against them (or anyone for that matter). Trump is taking such a stand because the media wants Trump to just say "yeah, fuck the nazis and the white supremacists and all the fault lies entirely with the alt-right," but he won't because it's not true.[/QUOTE] Remind me, which side orchestrated the initial march and which side came to protest them? Also, how many instances of the left wing protesters of driving cars into the opposing crowd have been there? I am not sure if I missed something, there.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580751]Except he didn't deflect blame. Trump literally said there was violence on both sides, and both sides were at fault.[/QUOTE] Don't forget the part where he sympathized with the Nazis. If Pence stands with that, then he also sympathizes with Nazis. [QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580751]I don't care if someone considers themselves a white supremacist or a nazi[/QUOTE] We can tell. [QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580751]Trump is taking such a stand because the media wants Trump to just say "yeah, fuck the nazis and the white supremacists and all the fault lies entirely with the alt-right," but he won't because it's not true.[/QUOTE] Why then has everyone regardless of political affiliation called this for what it is? It's not some media conspiracy dude.
Good to know that he's willing to ride the train into an active volcano.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580807]A lot of counter protestors came ready to fight too. You just want to throw around buzzwords and manipulate statements to fit your narrative. This isn't 1942, you can't just stroll up to a Nazi and start swinging. Assault is assault, it happened on both sides. The people who came, regardless of sides, and peacefully protested are the fine people who did nothing wrong and didn't deserve to be subjected to the violence and horrific acts that took place around them.[/QUOTE] What really hits me is the "fine people on both sides" comment from Trump, though. One side was white supremacists, Nazis, and the KKK. The other side was people standing against bigotry, racism, and hate. Sounds like only one side had any fine people to me.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580807] You just want to throw around buzzwords and manipulate statements to fit your narrative. [/QUOTE] Are you responding to me or Trump. [QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580807]This isn't 1942, you can't just stroll up to a Nazi and start swinging. [/QUOTE] Yeah, that didn't happen; the Nazis are the ones that strolled up and started swinging [QUOTE]Charlottesville Police Chief Al S. Thomas Jr. said the rallygoers went back on a plan that would have kept them separated from the counterprotesters. Instead of coming in at one entrance, he said, they came in from all sides. Headlong into the counterprotesters. A few minutes before 11 a.m., a swelling group of white nationalists carrying large shields and long wooden clubs approached the park on Market Street. About two dozen counterprotesters formed a line across the street, blocking their path. [B]With a roar, the marchers charged through the line, swinging sticks, punching and spraying chemicals.[/B] Counterprotesters fought back, also swinging sticks, punching and spraying chemicals. Others threw balloons filled with paint or ink at the white nationalists. Everywhere, it seemed violence was exploding. The police did not move to break up the fights. [/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter how much you dislike trump this isn't what it's being spun as in the media right now. Turn down the obnoxious extremist rhetoric for one moment and notice that denouncing neonazis and also denouncing left extremists is not endorsing neonazis.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580845]Oh, so counterprotesters brought sticks and balloons filled with paint for fun? Alright Raidyr.[/QUOTE] Did you miss the part of the quote where I proved you were wrong? I even bolded it. [QUOTE=Mattk50;52580857]It doesn't matter how much you dislike trump this isn't what it's being spun as in the media right now. Turn down the obnoxious extremist rhetoric for one moment and notice that denouncing neonazis and also denouncing left extremists is not endorsing neonazis.[/QUOTE] Denouncing left extremists isn't endorsing neonazis. Saying that there were some "good people" "peacefully protesting" at a Nazi rally is endorsing neonazis. "Obnoxious extremist rhetoric" like "I wish my president didn't sympathize with neonazis" or "Would condemn neo-nazis with the same fervor that he condemns Obama, Mitch McConnell, and Amazon"?
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580905]Lmao, you proved me wrong? Okay, you gave an example where the white nationalists began the fight (according to the article) and went on to explain how the counterprotesters also had weapons. So why did the counterprotesters have weapons to begin with if they were there to protest peacefully? Get real. You think they just filled balloons with paint and brought them along JUST IN CASE?[/QUOTE] They also ignored the plan formulated with the police to keep themselves seperated from the counter protestors. If you spent half as much time reading my posts as you do stuffing words in my mouth you might realize why you (and by extension, Trump) are wrong. [editline]16th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Vodkavia;52580906] They just supported and associated with people who have a long history of violent attacks against minorities and promoted ideas that dehumanize and encourage violence against them man how could that go wrong :thinking:[/QUOTE] The dude who did it probably got the idea [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1575229"]from Fox[/URL]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;52580881]Did you miss the part of the quote where I proved you were wrong? I even bolded it. [b]Denouncing left extremists isn't endorsing neonazis. Saying that there were some "good people" "peacefully protesting" at a Nazi rally is endorsing neonazis.[/b][/QUOTE] I think this is the point everyone's trying to get down to (hopefully) despite arguments here. The real problem with what Trump did was not criticizing violent extremism on the left (that shit needs to go same as the neo-nazis), it was claiming the neo-nazis were good people. You can't be a good person and be a neo-nazi, they're two very conflicting qualities.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580914]I'm not defending the Nazis, nowhere did I say they aren't at fault or shouldn't be held responsible for the violence that occurred. My ONLY point was that SOME counterprotesters who align with the radical left also came looking for a fight, as evidenced by the fact that they showed up with balloons full of paint. That's literally all I have to say about it, if you disagree that's your right.[/QUOTE] They wouldn't have had the opportunity to get into a fight if the far-right marchers had stuck to the plan and weren't seeking for a confrontation themselves. If we disagree with you it's not [I]our right[/I], [B]it's because we are right[/B].
[quote]also came looking for a fight, as evidenced by the fact that they showed up with balloons full of paint. [/quote] Looking for a fight, according to FinalHunter: Bring guns, shields, torches, tactical gear and clubs? Looking for a fight. Bring balloons full of paint? Obviously looking for the [I]exact same sort of fight[/I]. "One kid brought a super soaker filled with water, the other brought a flamethrower - obviously both these kids were violent to start with!!" Edit: I'd also like to point out that one side put down [I]weapon caches throughout the city[/I]. Give you one guess which side that was.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580751]Except he didn't deflect blame. Trump literally said there was violence on both sides, and both sides were at fault. This is unequivocally true - both sides were at fault. I don't care if someone considers themselves a white supremacist or a nazi, that doesn't give you the right to use violence against them (or anyone for that matter). Trump is taking such a stand because the media wants Trump to just say "yeah, fuck the nazis and the white supremacists and all the fault lies entirely with the alt-right," but he won't because it's not true.[/QUOTE] Oh spare me. If this situation was flipped and a bunch of radical leftists staged a violent protest and ended up murdering someone after some Nazis confronted them you would not hear a single fucking word from the Trump administration about "both sides." He sympathizes with the Nazis because they're a chunk of his base. He's not "taking a stand." He's playing cowardly, awful politics.
[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;52580933] He sympathizes with the Nazis because they're a chunk of his base. He's not "taking a stand." He's playing cowardly, awful politics.[/QUOTE] Shown vividly by the amount of people who otherwise stand with Trump and his politics having absolutely no problems denouncing the Neo-Nazis/White supremacists and them alone.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580751]Except he didn't deflect blame. Trump literally said there was violence on both sides, and both sides were at fault. This is unequivocally true - both sides were at fault. I don't care if someone considers themselves a white supremacist or a nazi, that doesn't give you the right to use violence against them (or anyone for that matter). Trump is taking such a stand because the media wants Trump to just say "yeah, fuck the nazis and the white supremacists and all the fault lies entirely with the alt-right," but he won't because it's not true.[/QUOTE] Both sides were at fault for a Nazi commiting vehicular homocide? Really?
So now we can add "nazi apologist" to the long list of unflattering things Trump (and his cowardly cohort) are.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;52580857]It doesn't matter how much you dislike trump this isn't what it's being spun as in the media right now. Turn down the obnoxious extremist rhetoric for one moment and notice that denouncing neonazis and also denouncing left extremists is not endorsing neonazis.[/QUOTE] I don't see Trump denouncing Christian extremists when he criticizes Muslim ones. Funny that. left wing extremists had fuck all relevance on these events, they should not be mentioned AT ALL. Especially when the right wing extremists are far more violent and likely to spread.
"The country is so mired in political division that even Nazi symbols have become political symbols some can live with if they feel that condemning them would give succor to their opposition." From a BBC article on this, seems to sum things up nicely
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580751]Except he didn't deflect blame. Trump literally said there was violence on both sides, and both sides were at fault. This is unequivocally true - both sides were at fault. I don't care if someone considers themselves a white supremacist or a nazi, that doesn't give you the right to use violence against them (or anyone for that matter). Trump is taking such a stand because the media wants Trump to just say "yeah, fuck the nazis and the white supremacists and all the fault lies entirely with the alt-right," but he won't because it's not true.[/QUOTE] Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the reason this ever became something for the President to issue a statement on was because of the dude who murdered and injured people with a car. Isn't it specifically the murder that forms the context of his response?
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52581242]"The country is so mired in political division that even Nazi symbols have become political symbols some can live with if they feel that condemning them would give succor to their opposition." From a BBC article on this, seems to sum things up nicely[/QUOTE] Just shows you that the Republicans have no policies, no integrity and no morals -- their only goal, after "make lots of money," is "piss off the liberals" and they don't care how they do it
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580845]Oh, so counterprotesters brought sticks and balloons filled with paint for fun? Alright Raidyr.[/QUOTE] Oh no, [I]not the paint[/I], [B][I]ANYTHING BUT THE PAINT[/I][/B] Seriously, the alt-rights display of talking tough while however being the most pathetic wimps when actually confronted is a fucking [I][B]riot[/B][/I], on it's own.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52580914]I'm not defending the Nazis, nowhere did I say they aren't at fault or shouldn't be held responsible for the violence that occurred. My ONLY point was that SOME counterprotesters who align with the radical left also came looking for a fight, as evidenced by the fact that they showed up with balloons full of paint. [/QUOTE] you're drawing a false equivalence between the white supremacists and the counter protesters, you are absolutely defending the nazis when you draw this equivalence it's an absolutely nonsense comparison that only serves to smoke screen - if you think some of the counter protesters bringing paint balloons is comparable to shields, weapons and one of the white supremacists committing terrorism with a car, then you're just being obnoxious and that's it
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