GIBRALTAR ROW: SPAIN CALLS OFF QUEEN SOFIA’S ATTENDANCE AT WINDSOR JUBILEE CELEBRATION - Polidicks

The long announced visit to Gibraltar next month by Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex, and his wife, the Countess Sophie, was yesterday cited by Madrid as a key reason for a last minute decision to call off the Spanish Queen Sofia’s trip to Britain this Friday. She was due to attend a commemorative dinner at Windsor Castle at which European monarchs will gather to celebrate Queen Elizabeth II’s diamond jubilee. But the Spanish Government was also citing the current tension over the waters as an aggravating factor leading to the decision, along with the fact that the Gibraltar Regiment Band was playing at Jubilee events. Reactionary Last night, when asked to comment, Chief Minister Fabian Picardo described the decision as “another 18th century reaction in a 21st century world.” With the Royal visit to Gibraltar just a month away the Spanish Royal Household is quoted as saying that Queen Sofia continuing with the visit to Britain would be “inappropriate in the current circumstances”. On May 8 Jose Garcia Margallo, Spanish Foreign Minister, called in the British Ambassador to formally protest at the visit, but that same day the trip by Queen Sofia remained on schedule. Fishing ‘clash’ An SMS statement to Spanish media attributed the move partly to the “breakdown in talks with the fishermen” complaining that Gibraltar treated [British Territorial] waters as its own. It was predicted that the Spanish fishermen would be entering Gibraltar’s last night with the Spanish Foreign Ministry’s blessing. Fishermen meet with La Linea mayor Fishermen in La Linea will meet with the town’s mayor, Gemma Araujo, to discuss the on going row over fishing in Gibraltar waters. The meeting will take place at 12.30 today in the Palacio de Congresos, where the town council is temporarily housed. According to the council, there are 53 boats that are impacted by Gibraltar laws banning the used of nets in British waters. Landaluce Meanwhile Algeciras mayor José Ignacio Landaluce, urged the Gibraltar Government to make a greater effort to “solve the problem which they [GoG] have created.” Sr Landaluce said that the fishermen should simply be allowed to continue operating in the manner they have in recent years. Any thoughts? Also link to the original article: [url]http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=24876[/url]

“another 18th century reaction in a 21st century world.” This sounds sort of accurate. I feel like I'm reading a newspaper from centuries ago.

Hey, we got Gibraltar fair and square in the Treaty of Utrecht [QUOTE]yield to the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar[/QUOTE]

Guys a heads up the fishing boats actually came in with the "blessing of the Guardia De Civil" makes me sick.

[QUOTE=The mouse;35995807]Hey, we got Gibraltar fair and square in the Treaty of Utrecht[/QUOTE] That Treaty is nearly 300 years old.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35995844]That Treaty is nearly 300 years old.[/QUOTE] We have a 650 year old or so treaty with Portugal that's still in effect :eng101: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Treaty_of_1373[/url]

[QUOTE=The mouse;35995865]We have a 650 year old or so treaty with Portugal that's still in effect :eng101: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Treaty_of_1373[/url][/QUOTE] That is completely voluntary on all sides.

Spain and Argentina need to wake up to the fact that people living in our territories don't want to be part of your countries

[QUOTE=Arsonist;35995973]Spain and Argentina need to wake up to the fact that people living in our territories don't want to be part of your countries[/QUOTE] Most of the Gibraltar population do actually. I saw an interview some time ago on the news. Pretty much everyone said they'd rather be considered Spanish.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35995844]That Treaty is nearly 300 years old.[/QUOTE] Generally, that makes little difference. Throughout history land has exchanged hands as a result of wars and subsequent treaties. If we follow the idea that time nullifies treaties, then the 1259 Treaty of Paris is void and Normandy should be returned to the possession of England. In short, Gibraltar was willingly ceded to the UK with the Treaty of Utrecht and the Spanish need to get over it. I would actually argue that Argentina has a greater claim over the Falkland Islands than Spain does over Gibraltar. [QUOTE=Kias20;35996029]Most of the Gibraltar population do actually. I saw an interview some time ago on the news. Pretty much everyone said they'd rather be considered Spanish.[/QUOTE] An interview isn't exactly a solid source. Furthermore, the 2002 referendum mssively contradicts your claim: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum,_2002[/url] And I doubt it would have changed so radically in 10 years.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35995844]That Treaty is nearly 300 years old.[/QUOTE] What's your point? Treaties don't expire unless an expiration date is stipulated in the treaty.

[QUOTE=Gordy H.;35996198]What's your point? Treaties don't expire unless an expiration date is stipulated in the treaty.[/QUOTE] If the people of Gibraltar don't want to be part of Great Britain, Spain has a rightful claim on the area.

[QUOTE=Kias20;35996029]Most of the Gibraltar population do actually. I saw an interview some time ago on the news. Pretty much everyone said they'd rather be considered Spanish.[/QUOTE] Kias I live here and I can't confirm that we hold votes in certain intervals and the majority say we want to be British and we decide what we want to do.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35996286]If the people of Gibraltar don't want to be part of Great Britain, Spain has a rightful claim on the area.[/QUOTE] But that is it - they want to remain British.

[QUOTE=David29;35996410]But that is it - they want to remain British.[/QUOTE] That's fine, I'm completely ambivalent to the Gibraltar situation. I'm saying that citing the Treaty of Utrecht as a reason for the UK to maintain sovereignty over Gibraltar is idiotic. That should play no part in the decision, it should rest solely with the Gibraltarians.

[QUOTE=Hell_Kyrone;35996287]Kias I live here and I can't confirm that we hold votes in certain intervals and the majority say we want to be British and we decide what we want to do.[/QUOTE] Oh. Must've been a certain area then. Apologies :I

I mean citing the Treaty of Utrecht is basically just waving Gibraltar around as some war trophy from 300 years ago. It subverts the self-determination of the Gibraltarian people, and is an attitude that we should have gotten rid a long time ago.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35996496]That's fine, I'm completely ambivalent to the Gibraltar situation. I'm saying that citing the Treaty of Utrecht as a reason for the UK to maintain sovereignty over Gibraltar is idiotic. That should play no part in the decision, it should rest solely with the Gibraltarians.[/QUOTE] The treaty still plays an important role, as it is the legal justification for being in possession of Gibraltar. As we see with Argentina, things get annoying and problematic when any legal doubt is cast on the issue.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35996563]I mean citing the Treaty of Utrecht is basically just waving Gibraltar around as some war trophy from 300 years ago. It subverts the self-determination of the Gibraltarian people, and is an attitude that we should have gotten rid a long time ago.[/QUOTE] As far as I'm aware, the British Government asks the people of territories that are 'disputed', to some degree or another, whether they want to be part of the UK or not. The Falklands, Gibraltar and Northern Ireland have all said that yes, they do.

[QUOTE=David29;35996615]The treaty still plays an important role, as it is the legal justification for being in possession of Gibraltar. As we see with Argentina, things get annoying and problematic when any legal doubt is cast on the issue.[/QUOTE] Um things are annoying and problematic with Gibraltar regardless. Spain wants it whether there is legal cause for the UK to hold sovereignty or not. [editline]17th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Camundongo;35996662]As far as I'm aware, the British Government asks the people of territories that are 'disputed', to some degree or another, whether they want to be part of the UK or not. The Falklands, Gibraltar and Northern Ireland have all said that yes, they do.[/QUOTE] Yea, that is good. They should do exactly that. It is the role of the people inside British territories to decide whether they want to be part of the UK or not. It's not the role of the UK, it's not the role of Argentina, it's not the role of Spain.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum,_2002]Before you start arguing-too late[/url] That's 98% folks. 98% [editline]17th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;35997235]-snip-[/QUOTE] It looks like you are arguing just to argue.

MOTHER OF GOD.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;35997235]Um things are annoying and problematic with Gibraltar regardless. Spain wants it whether there is legal cause for the UK to hold sovereignty or not.[/QUOTE] That's not my point. My point is that Spain has no basis for their claim at all, either in terms of legality or popularity.