[url]https://medium.com/@nath_leigh/stem-disruption-568b22a7edb5[/url]
[QUOTE][B]Get a STEM(Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) degree is a common response to people when the topic of automation of jobs comes up or as a solution to increasing automation because more automation and robots means more jobs maintaining the robots and software. This article illustrates that this solution is not so simple and shows how even STEM jobs are not immune from disruption in the near future due to new technologies.[/B][/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE]Suppose we encouraged all the retail, food prep, transport, clerical workers, trade workers and so on who face disruption, to climb the skills ladder into retraining to gain higher skills in STEM;
Not every person has the ability to learn these difficult skills —[B] almost half of US bachelor’s degree students who entered STEM fields between 2003 and 2009 had left these fields by spring 2009.[/B] In engineering, of every one hundred who start, only fifty-five make it to a degree. [B]The subject with the highest dropout rate in the UK is Computer science.[/B] In 2011 retail workers had a median age of 38, think about them or the 50 year old unemployed truck/taxi driver or the 26% of fast food workers with children training to become robotic engineers or computer vision experts. [B]Gaining an entirely new skill set isn't easy and is currently very expensive and time consuming.[/B]
There are currently not enough STEM jobs for STEM graduates,[B] the shortage of stem workers is a complete myth[/B]. A 2014 study by the National Science Board found that [B]of 19.5 million holders of degrees in STEM, only 5.4 million were working in those fields[/B] The Center for Economic Policy and Research, [B]tracing graduates from 2010 through 2014, discovered that 28 percent of engineers and 38 percent of computer scientists were either unemployed or holding jobs that did not need their training.[/B]
“If there was really a STEM labor market crisis, you’d be seeing very different behaviors from companies, You wouldn’t see companies cutting their retirement contributions, or hiring new workers and giving them worse benefits packages. Instead you would see signing bonuses, you’d see wage increases. You would see these companies really training their incumbent workers. None of those things are observable, in fact, they’re operating in the opposite way.”
 Two points made by Lowell and Salzman are particularly relevant. They find that there is a sufficient supply of students well-prepared to enter the fields of science and engineering, arguing that “the available evidence indicates an ample supply of students whose preparation and performance has been increasing over the past decades”. They add that there is also an adequate supply of experienced STEM workers, writing, “Purported labor market shortages for scientists and engineers are anecdotal and also not supported by the available evidence”
In fact, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce,[B] between 2010 and 2011, the employment level of the entire U.S. STEM workforce (including workers at all education levels) grew by only 92,492 jobs.[/B]
[B]In fact more than 370,000 science and engineering jobs in the United States were lost in 2011[/B], according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Electrical and electronic engineering has been heavily outsourced abroad, [B]US employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down from about 385,000 in 2002.[/B]
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[QUOTE]By 2020, China expects to have nearly 195 million community college and university graduates — compared with no more than 120 million in the United States. Accenture predicts that Brazil will increase its engineering graduates by 68% by 2015 and will produce more PhD engineers than the US by 2016.”
Salaries for computer science in the US are high, the average starting salary for a computer graduate in the US is $66,800 compared to $33,807 in the UK. What happens when a US company can easily hire 2 UK or 5 Chinese equally skilled developers for the price of a US one? [B]An amusing story is the US software developer who outsourced his job to China and spent his workdays surfing the web, watching cat videos on YouTube. He reportedly paid just a fifth of his six-figure salary to a company based in Shenyang to do his job[/B].
A 2013 report estimates that roughly a third of the US workforce, [B]more than 40 million, consists of temps, part-timers, contractors, contingent workers, freelancers[/B]/independent workers and those who are under-employed or work without employer-sponsored health insurance, 401Ks or FLEX accounts” according to a report by the Harvard Business Review. [B]By 2020, 40 percent of the US workforce will consist of freelancers[/B] according to a study by Intuit.[/QUOTE]
Gotten so bad at my county i'm able to get a job easier than my cousin, who has a civil engineering degree, even though i have a history.
If your only criteria for a career is whether it will be around in fifty years and there won't be a surplus of labour to compete with (which their probably will be anyways), your best bet is in aged care.
I'm not sure this takes into account the importance of the institution and the final grade you come out with. I don't know anyone from my EE course who didn't find a job even before graduating, but then it's a high-ranking institution for my particular degree. Similarly, I know of people from lower-ranking Unis who are finding it very difficult to find work.
Anecdotal evidence only goes so far, but this is the only reason I can think of for the "disruption". That and the final grade you get. A 2:2 might be a degree, but it will make it difficult for you to find work
It sucks that jobs are getting replaced, but this is how progress is made.
speaking as someone going into biomedical imaging research for the foreseeable future, you'll get my job and my associated pittance wage when you pry it from my cold dead hands
And btw billion dollar companies nowadays do not automatically equate to thousands of jobs being created, or a demand for more skilled workers, especially in the tech industry where you might expect STEM grads to find work.
[QUOTE]
Amazon acquired Twitch for $970 million. Not long ago a new billion-dollar company would have been a boon to job creation. Yet Twitch employs just 170 workers.
With only 55 employees, WhatsApp’s $19-billion valuation could, in an alternate universe where each employee was given an equal share, fetch $350 million per employee. This is nearly five times what employees of Instagram would have got when that company was bought out for $1 billion in 2012.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48571496]It sucks that jobs are getting replaced, but this is how progress is made.[/QUOTE]
what progress is that?
[QUOTE=Kommodore;48571532]what progress is that?[/QUOTE]
Towards a post-scarcity society
i dont think anyone is automating jobs with that in mind
[QUOTE=Kommodore;48571532]what progress is that?[/QUOTE]
Efficiently and effectively serving the market.
[editline]30th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ziks;48571620]Towards a post-scarcity society[/QUOTE]
Impossible
Really we're all just fucked. Unless we do something like wait until robotics advance far enough to take over all work, unemployment rates are going to skyrocket. Even worse, that's just going to fuck over the economy even more since without employment, there's no consumers. All the money will be in the hands of the rich who will just trade among themselves and the rest of people are fucked.
Really though, just thinking about all this just makes me want to write a book called Atlas Mugged where this exact scenario happens. Fuck Capitalism.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;48571444]Gotten so bad at my county i'm able to get a job easier than my cousin, who has a civil engineering degree, even though i have a history.[/QUOTE]
This isn't surprising because I've honestly read hundreds of articles that say unless it's something really specialized that requires a specific degree, most employers would rather hire someone with a liberal arts degree because of their critical thinking and communication skills, people just assume they're a dead end because the liberal arts don't railroad you into a specific career the same way STEM fields do.
[editline]29th August 2015[/editline]
Unless you want to be a teacher or university professor, then liberal arts are pushing you into a specific career.
And here the head of my department just gave a speech about how the job market is doing so well
[QUOTE=Kommodore;48571532]what progress is that?[/QUOTE]
Well economic progress over the past few centuries has been to increase worker productivity, which entails workers either working a lot less or making a lot more money. So far it's been successful going.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;48571884]This isn't surprising because I've honestly read hundreds of articles that say unless it's something really specialized that requires a specific degree, most employers would rather hire someone with a liberal arts degree because of their critical thinking and communication skills, people just assume they're a dead end because the liberal arts don't railroad you into a specific career the same way STEM fields do.[/QUOTE]
Employers for what, coffee shops? Most office settings would pounce on a quantitative degree for practically any role.
There are a lot of math majors in business (accounting, finance, analytics, etc.) and most STEM degrees (esp. engineering) give a very strong footing for entrepreneurship.
A liberal arts bachelors on its own is less useful than a STEM bachelors; this has been proven many times. It will, however, open you up to professional degrees (primarily law) and things like government/public service where there is no applicable major. But it won't suddenly be an entry key to more jobs than STEM.
[QUOTE=Turnips5;48571505]speaking as someone going into biomedical imaging research for the foreseeable future, you'll get my job and my associated pittance wage when you pry it from my cold dead hands[/QUOTE]
Congratulations.
Your area is the one with the most money being poured in for R&D and so far, the future seems extremely profitable for that area.
[QUOTE=Ziks;48571620]Towards a post-scarcity society[/QUOTE]
I feel more than likely the middle class is just gonna become merged with the lower class and people will laugh at you for asking for handouts when people want change for the better.
At least here anyway, people are dumb and act against their own self interests.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48571814]Really we're all just fucked. Unless we do something like wait until robotics advance far enough to take over all work, unemployment rates are going to skyrocket. Even worse, that's just going to fuck over the economy even more since without employment, there's no consumers. All the money will be in the hands of the rich who will just trade among themselves and the rest of people are fucked.
Really though, just thinking about all this just makes me want to write a book called [b]Atlas Mugged[/b] where this exact scenario happens. Fuck Capitalism.[/QUOTE]
Fucking genius, and I mean that seriously.
Get on it, sir.
[editline]30th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Saxon;48572198]At least here anyway, people are dumb and act against their own self interests.[/QUOTE]
That's pretty much a universal constant.
As someone in STEM, I'd have to say that there is a bit of a point. Most STEM jobs are limited in their location in comparison to other fields, specifically to larger population centers. Sure, seems obvious, but in a way, STEM also sets your lifestyle, unless you do something that's relevant but outside of the field (education, for example).
[QUOTE=gufu;48572310]As someone in STEM, I'd have to say that there is a bit of a point. Most STEM jobs are limited in their location in comparison to other fields, specifically to larger population centers. Sure, seems obvious, but in a way, STEM also sets your lifestyle, unless you do something that's relevant but outside of the field (education, for example).[/QUOTE]
A math stem major can basically work in any area. Can't say the same for physics, biology or chemistry.
[editline]30th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48571814]Really we're all just fucked. Unless we do something like wait until robotics advance far enough to take over all work, unemployment rates are going to skyrocket. Even worse, that's just going to fuck over the economy even more since without employment, there's no consumers. All the money will be in the hands of the rich who will just trade among themselves and the rest of people are fucked.
Really though, just thinking about all this just makes me want to write a book called Atlas Mugged where this exact scenario happens. Fuck Capitalism.[/QUOTE]
Well
A brave new world has exactly that scenario....the world director explains to one of the main characters that they could have leave everything to be done by robots, but people went crazy and revolutions had to be put down. So they restricted automation.
Automation how it is and how it will come will make capitalism no longer viable and it will need to be replaced by a form of socialism\communism. There won't be jobs to replace those that are lost.
[QUOTE=Arrows;48572346]Automation how it is and how it will come will make capitalism no longer viable and it will need to be replaced by a form of socialism\communism. There won't be jobs to replace those that are lost.[/QUOTE]
Both of those are failures, so that's a dead end idea right there.
i was talking with another guy in my engineering class, he's employed on an airforce research project as an intern, he's litterally not doing anything, they're paying him to come to work and stand around shifting files around and xeroxing papers. full on 4th year chemical engineer, being used to xerox things.
its also a huge waste for him because on the one hand, he needs the money, on the other hand its a complete waste of his time
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48572432]Both of those are failures, so that's a dead end idea right there.[/QUOTE]
Well, if you think about it, communism in it's true form would actually work very well with full automation. Without any money anymore, and all the crucial tasks like manufacturing and agriculture done, Humanity could be left free to do as they wish.
I'm a comp-sci major and to be honest, im optimistic about finding a job when (and if) I get my degree
[QUOTE=Snowmew;48572056]Employers for what, coffee shops? Most office settings would pounce on a quantitative degree for practically any role.
There are a lot of math majors in business (accounting, finance, analytics, etc.) and most STEM degrees (esp. engineering) give a very strong footing for entrepreneurship.
A liberal arts bachelors on its own is less useful than a STEM bachelors; this has been proven many times. It will, however, open you up to professional degrees (primarily law) and things like government/public service where there is no applicable major. But it won't suddenly be an entry key to more jobs than STEM.[/QUOTE]
This applies to history degrees specifically (because that's my major and I legitimately believe it's the most useful liberal arts field.), but it shows what kind of career paths are open to someone with a liberal arts degree beyond just Starbucks.
[url]http://history.ucdavis.edu/undergraduate/what-can-i-do-as-a-history-major[/url]
Yes, if I want to do something like law, journalism or education I'll have to go back to school at some point, but even if you're not going to go back and get another degree to go with your history degree you still have a pretty wide variety of jobs open to you which is pretty much the only advantage a degree in certain liberal arts fields has over something more career focused, although I'm sure taking a more general STEM degree rather than something specific and career focused has the same advantage.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;48572056]Employers for what, coffee shops? Most office settings would pounce on a quantitative degree for practically any role.
There are a lot of math majors in business (accounting, finance, analytics, etc.) and most STEM degrees (esp. engineering) give a very strong footing for entrepreneurship.
A liberal arts bachelors on its own is less useful than a STEM bachelors; this has been proven many times. It will, however, open you up to professional degrees (primarily law) and things like government/public service where there is no applicable major. But it won't suddenly be an entry key to more jobs than STEM.[/QUOTE]
You're actually wrong about that last part. Math majors do the best on the LSAT out of any other major [url]http://www.math.uh.edu/~tomforde/ConsideringMathMajor.html#Q3[/url]
[QUOTE=Ziks;48571620]Towards a post-scarcity society[/QUOTE]
That doesn't create a post scarcity society because we're always going to be in scarcity until we either how to recycle 100% of everything or leave the planet.
We're always going to be hampered by resources and mechanical instruments require more energy and raw resources to create that cannot be replaced.
[editline]30th August 2015[/editline]
Further, richer nations tend to consume more resources so if we do hit a point of 'post scarcity' people will most likely be sucking the planet dry by that point.
We do not have the scientific, cultural, political or economic systems in place at all for any of this automation talk and to be honest I'm against it as I am against the idea or robots replacing workers and transhumanism for the sake of transhumanism.
Plus
There's something I find amazing about people who was able to pay themselves a STEM major and are bitching about not finding work in their areas.
Why the fuck don't you emigrate or find jobs in another country?
Argentina companies (Hell, to be honest, Chileans and Brazilians pay more) will KILL each other for:
-An American guy
-Who graduated in America
-And has a degree in a STEM field.
Like, FUCKING KILL.
It amazes me, really.
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