300W Subwoofer with an Amp built in. RMS = 300W, but peak power is 900W. Got additional amp of 400W. - General

Hey, so I have an subwoofer which peak power is 900W but RMS is 300W. So I assume it's working only on it's 1/3 of the power because of the built-in amp. I got an additional Amplifier from friend, which is 400W. On one side it has: Audio In and Out. (I assume stereo of car goes into In, and from out it goes to the amp that's built into sub?) Then on other side, it has 2x lines of (+12V, GND and Switch). So I assume 12V GND and switch goes into that 400W amp, then from it it goes same wires into sub/amp box? Is that it? will it work at 700W or around that? or is that not how it works?

I'm afraid you can't do that. The technical term would be 'bridging' the amps and unless the amps are the same and designed for it, you can't really do it. But! This is okay. The term "peak power" is pretty much bullshit. It's a speaker or amp manufacturer's way of getting away with writing a larger wattage number on the box. In reality if you took a 900W RMS amp and used it on a sub rated for 900W peak-power, you'd kill the sub in no time. And what's the difference between RMS and peak power? The RMS rating is the power at which the amp/speaker can run at continuously, as in, hours and hours without problems. Peak power is the power the sub/amp can reach for a fraction of a second. Any longer than this and something is gonna go up in smoke.

Shit... so now I have a useless 400W amp :(

[QUOTE=No_Excuses;39849140]I'm afraid you can't do that. The technical term would be 'bridging' the amps and unless the amps are the same and designed for it, you can't really do it. But! This is okay. The term "peak power" is pretty much bullshit. It's a speaker or amp manufacturer's way of getting away with writing a larger wattage number on the box. In reality if you took a 900W RMS amp and used it on a sub rated for 900W peak-power, you'd kill the sub in no time. And what's the difference between RMS and peak power? The RMS rating is the power at which the amp/speaker can run at continuously, as in, hours and hours without problems. Peak power is the power the sub/amp can reach for a fraction of a second. Any longer than this and something is gonna go up in smoke.[/QUOTE] 2nd that. Peak is a useless rating, but for some reason the most used by the common consumer. Always purchase your amplifiers off RMS ratings. People always buy said max power woofers, then buy amps that push that said max power, and blow their woofers, wondering what went wrong. And plugging two amps into one sub will just fry both the amplifiers.

[QUOTE=masterwolf;39849249]2nd that. Peak is a useless rating, but for some reason the most used by the common consumer. Always purchase your amplifiers off RMS ratings. People always buy said max power woofers, then buy amps that push that said max power, and blow their woofers, wondering what went wrong. And by the way, what do you mean "internal amp?" You mean its an enclosure with an amplifier in it?[/QUOTE] Here: [url]http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_723259_langId_-1_categoryId_212567[/url]

[QUOTE=arleitiss;39849255]Here: [url]http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_723259_langId_-1_categoryId_212567[/url][/QUOTE] So the amplifier built in does 300rms, and 900 max. Since its built in, obviously the woofers specs are compatible with that amplifier. Why would you wanna put an extra 400 watts into a woofer designed to run at 300rms? I'm sure the woofer is already fully powered by that internal amplifier.

[QUOTE=masterwolf;39849318]So the amplifier built in does 300rms, and 900 max. Since its built in, obviously the woofers specs are compatible with that amplifier. Why would you wanna put an extra 400 watts into a woofer designed to run at 300rms? I'm sure the woofer is already fully powered by that internal amplifier.[/QUOTE] To be honest... I haven't got a clue. I've installed subs like that and did wiring in cars about 5 times before, but I never really thought of what does wattage of sub actually do. Does it make it louder? (if so, I don't need anymore), does it give deeper frequency bass? What does it actually do?

[QUOTE=arleitiss;39849413]To be honest... I haven't got a clue. I've installed subs like that and did wiring in cars about 5 times before, but I never really thought of what does wattage of sub actually do. Does it make it louder? (if so, I don't need anymore), does it give deeper frequency bass? What does it actually do?[/QUOTE] Wattage is power. (Heh, I mean thats the simple physics way to describe it :P) Its the driving force behind the electromagnetic field which actually drives the cone in and out. You may or may not be too knowledged in the anatomy of a subwoofer, but I can give you a basic understanding right now, which may help you understand. At the back of the woofer is the magnet, which, although you cannot see it, has a ring gap right in the center. Suspended in that gap by the cone is a copper coil, usually around 1.5-2.5" on normal subwoofers, but can range to 3-4.5" on competition woofers. When power is put into this coil, it creates a magnetic field, and since the coil is suspended in this gap, surrounded by a big ol' ferrhite (or neodymium magnet), it gets pushed out of the magnet, forcing the cone upwards, and downwards (via the alternating current). The suspension, as you may had heard, keeps the cone controlled. You probably knew that, but I just wanted you refresh your memory on that. Power, however, doesn't determine loudness. Mainstream brands (such as your subwoofer) refrains from posting what is known as T/S (small parameters) of the woofer, which is basically all the scientifical and physical figures behind the woofer, which make it sound the way it does. They either do this cause they are embarrassed, or not to confuse people with all these figures. To relate this to what your talking about, a 2 specific variables would be in YOUR interest. BL, and efficiency, measured in 1 watt/ 1 meter. BL is the actual control and strength the magnet has on the voice coil, and woofer. It is measured in mass/current. A higher BL value (not EXTREMELY high however) will cause a woofer so sound more controled, and use the power given more "wisely," as in not just waste it to make the woofer move a whole lot and produce shitty sound. It also, as it also measures magnet strength, will dictate how powerful the power put in will be. Yeah, that makes sense. Its kind of like the magnets "horsepower." With the power put into it, as a car has gas put into it, how hard can it force that coil with the given power, as a car can force the vehicle forward with the gas given. How much an effect does the magnet have on the coil, basically. And how controlled that force is. Efficiency is even more important to you, in this case, for it is what it says. How "efficient" is this woofer at producing sound? Like I mentioned, it is measured in 1 watt/1 meter. This measures how loud a subwoofer will get on the power it is given, in this case only 1 watt. A woofer with a higher sensitivity (a higher sensitivity will be, for subwoofers, around 90-93db @ 1 watt) will get louder on LOWER power. This means that, lets just say hypothetically, you place a 500 watt woofer with an extremely low sensitivity next to a 500 watt woofer with an extremely high sensitivity, the woofer with the high sensitivity, although on the same amount of power as the other woofer, will get much, much louder. Its all about how the woofer uses the power. The power simply magnetizes the coil, its all about the design of the motor (the magnet) and the components of the subwoofer which makes it louder. Not just that, but enclosure too. Enclosures are EXTREMELY important. The enclosure is the speaker box, and its not just a randomly sized box they slap the woofer in. The box is just the right size to provide adiquate "backpressure" to the woofer, to help control the woofer. Without an enclosure, the woofer just flops around and sounds like poo. The enclosure controls the cone. The ports (holes in the enclosures) allow resonation to occur, to provide a warm bass sound. They are "tuned" to a certain frequency, so that it will resonate at said frequency. It also, as before, allows proper control of the woofer. A crappy box will cause a nice woofer to sound like shit, and is usually the cause for a crappy sounding system (well, usually ;-)) So to just answer your question in a TL;DR fasion, wattage has minimal effects on a woofer. BL, Sensitivity (efficiency) and enclosure design all affect the woofers performance. Power just gives the woofer energy to do its thing, its up to the woofer to use the energy to its full potential (the magnet supply the most force it can via the magnet gap deisgn ((the gap the coil is suspended in)) and in a controlled, good sounding manner. It has nothing to do with frequency, the ratings of power.

oh, well that's pretty complicated as I never really studied physics as I am studying computing. But well... I turned it on today and 300W seems decent enough for my small car. I had opel corsa before, I had 550W on it and the boot was blasting and shaking mad. Now it's E46, and it sounds pretty decent with 300W.

[QUOTE=arleitiss;39849578]oh, well that's pretty complicated as I never really studied physics as I am studying computing. But well... I turned it on today and 300W seems decent enough for my small car. I had opel corsa before, I had 550W on it and the boot was blasting and shaking mad. Now it's E46, and it sounds pretty decent with 300W.[/QUOTE] Well its kinda hard to answer your question without getting into physics. Your asking a physics question, after all. But I do understand. I dont study physics either, but being a large basshead I understand the physics behind the woofer. I mean its not complicated, actually its pretty much common sense. But you dont want to overpower the subwoofer, that'll just blow it. The amplifier in it is matched to the woofers specs, so anything over that will just be risking blowing it. If you want to get louder, you'd need a higher rated subwoofer.

[QUOTE=masterwolf;39849614]Well its kinda hard to answer your question without getting into physics. Your asking a physics question, after all. But I do understand. I dont study physics either, but being a large basshead I understand the physics behind the woofer. I mean its not complicated, actually its pretty much common sense. But you dont want to overpower the subwoofer, that'll just blow it. The amplifier in it is matched to the woofers specs, so anything over that will just be risking blowing it. If you want to get louder, you'd need a higher rated subwoofer.[/QUOTE] Yeah makes sense I suppose. Can 400W amp be used for anything interesting?

[QUOTE=arleitiss;39849642]Yeah makes sense I suppose. Can 400W amp be used for anything interesting?[/QUOTE] Hmm, interesting.... Err, well if your bored you could use it to blow old speakers you don't need. Older speakers generally catch on fire, even, due to the paper materials used. Nowadays the voice coil formers (the former is just the tube the coil wraps around, like a paper towel tube) are made to NOT light on fire, whilst older woofers fomers are much more flammable. So when you overpower the woofer, it catches fire. Other than that you could sell it :P What brand amp?

[QUOTE=masterwolf;39853806]Hmm, interesting.... Err, well if your bored you could use it to blow old speakers you don't need. Older speakers generally catch on fire, even, due to the paper materials used. Nowadays the voice coil formers (the former is just the tube the coil wraps around, like a paper towel tube) are made to NOT light on fire, whilst older woofers fomers are much more flammable. So when you overpower the woofer, it catches fire. Other than that you could sell it :P What brand amp?[/QUOTE] It's: GTA 2100B BLAUPUNKT [editline]9th March 2013[/editline] I guess I could always buy something like this: [url]http://www.adverts.ie/car-parts-accessories/maystar-subwoofer-brand-new-in-box/2561318[/url] Do bit of DIY, build a box, put a sub in it and use this amp, or I could always install a non-stock bmw speakers which require more than 25W (stock) and use amp. But then again.... this amp has only 1 channel out so I guess I can only install additional speaker or so.

[QUOTE=arleitiss;39853907]It's: GTA 2100B BLAUPUNKT [editline]9th March 2013[/editline] I guess I could always buy something like this: [url]http://www.adverts.ie/car-parts-accessories/maystar-subwoofer-brand-new-in-box/2561318[/url] Do bit of DIY, build a box, put a sub in it and use this amp, or I could always install a non-stock bmw speakers which require more than 25W (stock) and use amp. But then again.... this amp has only 1 channel out so I guess I can only install additional speaker or so.[/QUOTE] Oh... Well you wouldn't really get shit for that :P All these subs look like off brand crap. What is your budget? I could reccomend some good non-mainstream brands that will give you full bang for your buck. I could also help you design an enclosure, since I have the know how and tools (well, the tools ARE free but I know how to use em ;-) ), and it doesn't take any more than half an hour to an hour to design a proper daily enclosure.

[QUOTE=masterwolf;39854803]Oh... Well you wouldn't really get shit for that :P All these subs look like off brand crap. What is your budget? I could reccomend some good non-mainstream brands that will give you full bang for your buck. I could also help you design an enclosure, since I have the know how and tools (well, the tools ARE free but I know how to use em ;-) ), and it doesn't take any more than half an hour to an hour to design a proper daily enclosure.[/QUOTE] Well the maximum I would spend on another subwoofer is 100 Euros. So I doubt I can get anything epic. Would be pretty cool if I could buy a cheapish sub, make a box, and sell it alter for more since I got an amp for free. My local halfords store is selling [url]http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_264517_langId_-1_categoryId_212567[/url] Would that be any good?

What is with this off brand stuff, vibe slick? Is it a European thing? :v:

Tbh I have no idea what brands of subs are popular. Never heard of any. List some? So I know for future reference.

[QUOTE=arleitiss;39855985]Tbh I have no idea what brands of subs are popular. Never heard of any. List some? So I know for future reference.[/QUOTE] Blaupunkt, Kicker and Caliber on the top of my head atm

[QUOTE=Ldesu;39856140]Blaupunkt, Kicker and Caliber on the top of my head atm[/QUOTE] Ehhhhhhhhhcrwbfpt Yes, they arent bad, actually kicker is pretty decent and blaupunkt makes pretty SQ (sound quality) subwoofers. Howeeeeeeever those are too mainstream. I like to be a hipster in car audio. Sundown audio is my choice for the avid listener. Its not mainstream (I mean its pretty popular in the car audio scene), and that means their prices are solely for the WOOFER, not for the name slapped on the cone. They sell some pretty nice entry level subs, and high level woofers as well, and I've personally owned and installed these woofers before. My friend, a sundown audio E series woofer will knock your socks into another dimension- a dimension of BASS. And if thats not cheesy enough, think about it this way. For the same price you are paying for these crappy brand subwoofers, you can get a subwoofer that will STOMP all over it and smash it to bits. You'll be suprised when you go from a 130 dollar edge subwoofer to a 130 dollar sundown, literally you wont be ready for the difference. Its great. I know I sound like a salesman, but sundown needs more attention from the avid bumper, you can get louder for a fraction of the price, and idk why anyone would pass that up. Look at the sundown E series, you can get a 10" for around 105 US dollars, and I promise you, its a fantastic sub- I've heard and designed many systems with these in person. Basically, its a fucking badass sub.

I've used a/d/s and Fence Audio. Fence is Norwegian so it's probably not easy to get hold of. The Fence element had good bass but was bad quality (it was a fucking cheap one) and the a/d/s didn't have that much bass but was way better quality.

[QUOTE=Ldesu;39857097]I've used a/d/s and Fence Audio. Fence is Norwegian so it's probably not easy to get hold of. The Fence element had good bass but was bad quality (it was a fucking cheap one) and the a/d/s didn't have that much bass but was way better quality.[/QUOTE] Wow never heard of Fence Audio. Probably, though, cause I'm in the good ol' U.S of A so I wouldn't know about that. They seem like a Norwegian Rockford Fosgate. I feel like there should be a car audio discussion thread in the AA section, seems like theres been some CA questions :P

Kicker is what's hangin out in my trunk. but yeh, Masterwolf knows what's up, a lot of the smaller online companies make phenominal subs, if you want to be that guy to not run mainstream stuff. Heck, there's a guy in the Chicago fleamarket who sells speakers under the name "Pop's speakers".. home built subs and speakers, and they're pretty damn nice for what you pay. Get a USA Amps amp :) [img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2108/2203856189_1df2e3a328.jpg[/img] jk, of course. Or.. go oldschool and get some Cerwin Vega Stroker action [img]http://s1.hubimg.com/u/2405312_f260.jpg[/img]