• Guild Wars 2 dev: MMO subs can hurt fun design
    16 replies, posted
[url]http://www.shacknews.com/article/74424/guild-wars-2-dev-mmo-subscriptions-can-hurt-design-decisions[/url]
Every MMO I have played so far has died off for me because of subscription fees. Guild Wars 2 looks so very promising.
[quote] As ArenaNet's subscription-free MMORPG isn't motivated by "the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible," he claims, design is led by a simple question: "Is this fun?"[/quote] YES. This is the right attitude.
This is the game I'm hyped for most right now I was skeptical about the new direction until I played the beta which ended up being even better than I expected
I wish they would've kept dual-classing though. I don't like the way devs are throwing out character customization entirely for the sake of balance. I like having the freedom to choose how I want to play the game, and what kind of character I want to build. I hate the MMO 'archetypes' of tank, heals/support and DPS and the rigid, uninteresting gameplay it enforces.
[QUOTE=ROBO_DONUT;36415468]I wish they would've kept dual-classing though. I don't like the way devs are throwing out character customization entirely for the sake of balance. I like having the freedom to choose how I want to play the game, and what kind of character I want to build. I hate the MMO 'archetypes' of tank, heals/support and DPS and the rigid, uninteresting gameplay it enforces.[/QUOTE] My my, I don't think you've given the beta a try, because they have all of what you're asking for. There are so many different ways to build each class, the class customization is extremely indepth and each class can fill a variety of roles.
God, do another beta, I'm so bored of every other game right now
They make a good point. The only real fun I was having in TERA was during the betas, now that I've started paying, I've really lost interest... plus repeating the same stuff I did in beta got a bit tiring.
[QUOTE]In a blog post, Johanson says that subscription MMOs "run the risk of sacrificing quality to get as much content in as possible to fill that time." This often manifests as grinding for levels and items, repeating daily quests, having to organise huge raids, and generic kill/collect quests.[/QUOTE] And yet the most successful MMORPG of all time has all of these. GW2 is a fun game and the devs seem to have a solid grasp on game design but this blog post was pretty dumb all around. It's something I'd expect an FPer to make in a World of Warcraft News Node thread.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;36418569]And yet the most successful MMORPG of all time has all of these.[/QUOTE] Wow, did I just read that? Do you realize how stupid what you just said is? "It's the most successful therefore nothing it does is shitty and lame because, hey, it's popular!"
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;36419822]Wow, did I just read that? Do you realize how stupid what you just said is? "It's the most successful therefore nothing it does is shitty and lame because, hey, it's popular!"[/QUOTE] Logic dictates that if something is popular a lot of people are having fun with it. Saying outright that those things are not fun is attributing an objective definition to a subjective word. Also I never said WoW doesn't do anything shitty or lame but just that it obviously does something people have fun with because it's hugely successful. I'd recommend acquiring some amount of reading comprehension before calling other people stupid because you look really silly right now. [editline]21st June 2012[/editline] Your reactionary reply without bothering to read or process the information laid out in front of you is kind of my point really. You saw "successful MMORPG" and immediately thought "This guy thinks that because it's popular means it's good" instead of slowing down, being logical, and thinking that because a lot of people are paying for something, they see some value in it. And as we are talking about video games, an entertainment industry, that value is measured in the currency called "fun". So when a developer of a competing game goes on record and makes an official blog saying those things aren't fun then I'm afraid you have created a logical fallacy in subscribing to everyone else what your view of fun is. You would think that someone who got to a high-ranking position in a super-successful and for the most part pretty great development studio as part of the intensely competitive video game industry would be able to separate the two, which is why I mentioned WoW threads on FP. Along with CoD threads and Diablo threads there seems to be a lot of people who think that because they don't like it, no one should like it, and that there is no fun to be had. I guess maybe dumb was a harsh word to use but I'd certainly say absent-minded or unconstructive. It will appeal only to the people who were already getting Guild Wars 2 and kind of puts off anyone else who goes "Hey wait, I like WoW, and I'm interested in Guild Wars 2". It's like when the Bulletstorm developers marketed their game as a refreshing change of pace from the ubiquitous FPS tropes that have sprung up in recent years. And then they spent developer resources working on a dumb parody game that insulted a large demographic of players that probably would have been interested in buying their game. It's the gaming version of shitting where you eat. Now to be fair to Arenanet, they haven't gone that far, mostly because they are again a high-brow studio that makes good games and doesn't depend on gimmicky marketing to sell their wares. I just thought this blog wasn't very smart. At best it's going to make people waiting for the game slightly more energized. At worst it's going to put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths who are coming from other games, particularly their main competitor WoW.
If the 8 million or so schmucks who are complacent with boring crap like grind and crappy uninteresting quests enjoy that sort of thing then more power to them but that doesn't mean that the rest of the industry has to use their shit as a gold standard. It's time the MMO market gave WoW the middle finger and told its 10+ year old game design to fuck right the hell off. The MMO market needs to innovate and breath new life into its game mechanics and not just go "Well WoW does it and all the zombies who play that think it's the best thing since sliced bread!". I'm tired of all these copy cat MMOs and I think a lot of other people are too. And if that means getting a few peoples panties in a bunch by pointing of that not fun things aren't fun then so be it. I eagerly await the reply that tells me how stupid I am or whatever.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;36420724]If the 8 million or so schmucks who are complacent with boring crap like grind and crappy uninteresting quests enjoy that sort of thing then more power to them[/QUOTE] Actually it's 10 million. In any case, complacent or content? Maybe they just like the game? I know people who love leveling in WoW. It boggles my mind because I find it to be pretty boring but who am I to stand up and say he isn't having fun, and that doesn't count as a fun activity, and he is wrong and I am right and I am the arbiter on what can be enjoyed? [QUOTE]but that doesn't mean that the rest of the industry has to use their shit as a gold standard. It's time the MMO market gave WoW the middle finger and told its 10+ year old game design to fuck right the hell off. The MMO market needs to innovate and breath new life into its game mechanics and not just go "Well WoW does it and all the zombies who play that think it's the best thing since sliced bread!". I'm tired of all these copy cat MMOs and I think a lot of other people are too.[/QUOTE] I completely agree, ad hominem generalizations about people who happen to have fun playing a video game you don't aside. [QUOTE]And if that means getting a few peoples panties in a bunch by pointing of that not fun things aren't fun then so be it.[/QUOTE] Here is the fundamental disconnect: What you think is fun is not the same as what other people think is fun. And that's okay. If everyone thought the same things were fun and not fun then it would be a really boring life. There would be new viewpoints or exciting discoveries. It's the fact that we all have different opinions that adds flavor to the way we get to spend our amount of free time. You don't have fun playing WoW, and that's okay. The guy who wrote the blog probably doesn't have fun playing WoW. Again, that's fine. My problem is when you are saying something isn't fun as if you are stating it like a fact. [QUOTE] I eagerly await the reply that tells me how stupid I am or whatever.[/QUOTE] I don't think you are stupid. I just don't think you read my original post correctly because you are putting words in my mouth and putting forth points and arguments I didn't make.
Just because WoW is successful doesn't mean it can't be improved. Even to the people that enjoy it, it doesn't mean that they wouldn't like any other alternative better. And good job rating everyone dumb who has anything good to say about it. Doesn't make you look like a complete twat or anything.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;36421083]Just because WoW is successful doesn't mean it can't be improved. Even to the people that enjoy it, it doesn't mean that they wouldn't like any other alternative better. [/QUOTE] I never said this.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;36421161]I never said this.[/QUOTE] You're acting that there's something wrong in the GW2 devs pointing out the flaws with popular MMOs like WoW and trying to do something different.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;36421196]You're acting that there's something wrong in the GW2 devs pointing out the flaws with popular MMOs like WoW and[B] trying to do something different[/B].[/QUOTE] Again, I never said this. If GW2 wants to market how it's doing different from other MMO's then it should because they have a lot of good ideas and it's a great game even in beta. I was just disagreeing with the idea that there is an objective definition of the word fun. Think about it like this: What if this was an article from someone on the WoW team saying how the microtransaction system hurts fun design, and lists things that GW2 has as if they were just objectively bad? You would obviously disagree.
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