• Spy devices found in Ottawa Nortel building - DND move in jeopardy
    16 replies, posted
[quote]The DND is not releasing details about where exactly the electronic eavesdropping devices were found or whether they were left over from an industrial espionage operation when Nortel occupied the complex in Ottawa’s west end. Nortel was the target of a number of spy and computer hacking operations, with the main culprits suspected of being associated with China. But security analysts say other listening devices could remain in the sprawling campus at 3500 Carling Ave. The question is whether they can all be found and whether they are still active, they add. John Pike of Washington-based GlobalSecurity.org said the DND will have to decide whether it is worth the risk to move into the facility. “It might be either they decide they found them all or they’ll decide maybe they haven’t found them all but can work around them,” he said of the bugs.[/quote] [url]http://www.ottawacitizen.com/entertainment/examine+discovery+bugs+Nortel+building+will+change+plan/8979483/story.html[/url] Ottawa just can't catch a break. First Nortel goes down the toilet, then Blackberry, now the expensive Department of National Defense move which was supposed to help revive the IT sector will most likely be held off or just flat out cancelled.
Unless they're willing to demolish the entire building, they wont find all of 'em. You build your surveillance into the structure of the building anymore, planted bugs are too liable to shit like this.
[QUOTE=Worldwaker;42368461]Unless they're willing to demolish the entire building, they wont find all of 'em. You build your surveillance into the structure of the building anymore, planted bugs are too liable to shit like this.[/QUOTE] They'll gut the building and find them.
Remove all electronics and EMP the place.
[QUOTE=pentium;42369171]They'll gut the building and find them.[/QUOTE] You can't gut supports. The Russians did it with an embassy of ours during the Cold War, built resonators right into the concrete superstructure that kept the thing standing. Let me see if I can find a link to it. [B]Edit:[/B] Found it! [url]http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1990_cr/h901026-embassy.htm[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_listening_device#cite_note-12[/url] Also, I learned about that from the History Channel. RIP actual historical programming.
[QUOTE=maurits150;42369260]Remove all electronics and EMP the place.[/QUOTE] I'm gonna guess you have no idea what actually causes an EMP, unless you're actually suggesting nuking the entire city.
[QUOTE=catbarf;42369453]I'm gonna guess you have no idea what actually causes an EMP, unless you're actually suggesting nuking the entire city.[/QUOTE] EMP Grenades. Never played MGS?
[QUOTE=Worldwaker;42369360]You can't gut supports. The Russians did it with an embassy of ours during the Cold War, built resonators right into the concrete superstructure that kept the thing standing. Let me see if I can find a link to it. [B]Edit:[/B] Found it! [url]http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1990_cr/h901026-embassy.htm[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_listening_device#cite_note-12[/url] Also, I learned about that from the History Channel. RIP actual historical programming.[/QUOTE] Unlike your country Canada has a their debt somewhat under control. We aren't going to demolish the entire building and rebuild because people on the internet are paranoid.
[QUOTE=pentium;42369660]Unlike your country Canada has a their debt somewhat under control. We aren't going to demolish the entire building and rebuild because people on the internet are paranoid.[/QUOTE] That and I would find it doubtful that the bugs were actually built into the structure of the buildings. Nortel has been out at that campus since the 1970s when they were still Northern Telecom. They didn't start to have serious issues with industrial espionage and hackers until they began to take off in the early 1990s (Including a young Julian Assange, interestingly enough.) He's not completely off base though. The Canadian government made attempts to plant bugs in the Russian embassy back when it was being built in the 1950s.
[QUOTE=catbarf;42369453]I'm gonna guess you have no idea what actually causes an EMP, unless you're actually suggesting nuking the entire city.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_pumped_flux_compression_generator[/url]
[QUOTE=catbarf;42369453]I'm gonna guess you have no idea what actually causes an EMP, unless you're actually suggesting nuking the entire city.[/QUOTE] Yeah he obviously hasn't played MW2 :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Dysgalt;42369862][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_pumped_flux_compression_generator[/URL][/QUOTE] Historically nowhere near the strength required thanks to EMP suffering from inverse-square decay and requiring substantial energy to neutralize simple electronics, rendering it insufficiently powerful for cleaning a building (note that TEMPEST project generators are very short range and not useful against simple electronics), but credit where it's due for bringing up a non-nuclear alternative.
[QUOTE=Desuh;42369517]EMP Grenades. Never played MGS?[/QUOTE] That was chaff.
[QUOTE=Kinversulath;42369705]That and I would find it doubtful that the bugs were actually built into the structure of the buildings. Nortel has been out at that campus since the 1970s when they were still Northern Telecom. They didn't start to have serious issues with industrial espionage and hackers until they began to take off in the early 1990s (Including a young Julian Assange, interestingly enough.) He's not completely off base though. The Canadian government made attempts to plant bugs in the Russian embassy back when it was being built in the 1950s.[/QUOTE] Anyways, my comment was more speaking towards the possibility, and one must remember that since they've been there, they have remodeled repeatedly. As for them spying on people, eh. It's far cheaper these days just to dig up the fibre lines and breach security there. And my point was more speaking towards the general possibility, than it's actual likelihood of having happened. Although, now we live in a world where a corporation can wield more power than a government, so it's not entirely bonkers. Especially in a where things like Stuxnet have been publicly acknowledged by governments themselves who have to at least make a show of following laws. As for any suggestions of EMP devices, we've had shielding for that for as long as we've realized it could happen. Now if you [I]really[/I] want security, just turn the building into one big faraday cage!
[QUOTE=Worldwaker;42373447]As for them spying on people, eh. It's far cheaper these days just to dig up the fibre lines and breach security there. [/QUOTE] In practice, though, a bug is more effective in that secret matters tend to be discussed much more openly in person than over networks. Most people are actually really bad at keeping confidential information confidential- every security agency has had problems with people discussing their work in open areas like building lobbies where uncleared personnel have access, but people are usually pretty good about keeping phone lines clean. A bug in the right place, though, can catch all kinds of useful data. Just look at how successful the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_%28listening_device%29]Thing[/url] was.
I can see this building from my house, not surprised spy devices were found though tbh
Has Dungeon Master Fonberg commented on this yet?
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