I hope there will be also more nonlethal combat options and rewards for being unlethal because it wasn't fun to find all the COOL DEUDLY CRAP and still being limited to pretty much only using the stun gun, tranq rifle and the melee takedowns, and finally gas nade spam in the last chapter which all four were honestly quite a bit underwhelming compared to all the fun weapons you could have.
Honestly they could just give all the ballistic weapons some kind of rubber/forcefield ammo that knocks unarmoured enemies out with good enough aim heavily staggers the armoured ones, to enable setting up for a takeout.
[editline]16th April 2015[/editline]
I usually gravitate to unlethal options when they are available, but DE:HR put me into the moral dilemma of choice between going unlethal or actually having fun.
I figure ghost runs in any game should be more about remaining undetected and leaving no trace - including non-lethal takedowns
I like dishonored for how it dealt with both aggressive guns blazing playthroughs and ghost playthroughs - guns blazing was quicker but there would be more enemies in later levels, ghost had their own complicated routes and required patience but you had less enemies. Only downside to ghost like with deus ex was how you didnt get to make use of all the cool deadly things, but tbh in dishonored the blink was the most fun aspect by far.
hopefully your choices will actually matter for the game ending or how the game actually progresses unlike HR
At first I thought the title meant you could watch a ghost of your last playthrough like in racing games.
[QUOTE=Primigenes;47538497]I hope the boss fight is like the one in the [sp]DLC[/sp]. You guys understand right? Because you could completely ghost in that boss fight and the dialogue showed it[/QUOTE]
That was proof enough they knew how to improve on everything wrong in the game. From the optimization right down to the amount of choice available. [sp]That huge dialogue section with Quinn at the end was brilliant especially when he detects if you use the CASIE aug or not.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Primigenes;47538497]I hope the boss fight is like the one in the [sp]DLC[/sp]. You guys understand right? Because you could completely ghost in that boss fight and the dialogue showed it[/QUOTE]
Missing Link came out a while after HR when they 'learned' their lesson so it's most likely gonna continue that way. [sp] I loved the fact you could steal his revolver from his office which meant he used an SMG instead during the finale, nice attention to detail [/sp]
On a related note, i hope they rework the XP system, hack a PC and get the keypad number for a door, hack said Keypad anyway because moar XP.
It should just be XP for getting the keycode, and XP for getting past the door, regardless of how you did it.
[QUOTE=papaya;47538369]I figure ghost runs in any game should be more about remaining undetected and leaving no trace - including non-lethal takedowns
I like dishonored for how it dealt with both aggressive guns blazing playthroughs and ghost playthroughs - guns blazing was quicker but there would be more enemies in later levels, ghost had their own complicated routes and required patience but you had less enemies. Only downside to ghost like with deus ex was how you didnt get to make use of all the cool deadly things, but tbh in dishonored the blink was the most fun aspect by far.[/QUOTE]
Basically, this. In stealth game communities (ESPECIALLY Thief or Deus Ex,) Ghosting means no traces other than objectives being completed. if you turned off a light, you turn it back on; if you opened a door, you closed it again; and most importantly, you do not disturb anybody. No alarms, no detections, no knockouts, no kills.
As much as I like Deus Ex, games that let you chose between stealth and combat always seem to lean towards stealth. Like if you're mowing down the bad guys with a machine gun, you're doing it wrong.
[QUOTE=cqbcat;47540047]As much as I like Deus Ex, games that let you chose between stealth and combat always seem to lean towards stealth. Like if you're mowing down the bad guys with a machine gun, you're doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]i think far cry 3 has a good balance
I hope by ghostable it means you can go through it without killing anyone, other than bosses I guess. And by that I mean just sneak past everyone, no take downs needed
I really wonder about the setting since they're somehow gonna have to strip Jensen of all his aug upgrades, and then get someone who funds and gives him new stuff.
On the other hand, its a bit underwhelming when game favors either of the choice. Id like they add in variety when going lethal rewards more.
[QUOTE=cqbcat;47540047]As much as I like Deus Ex, games that let you chose between stealth and combat always seem to lean towards stealth. Like if you're mowing down the bad guys with a machine gun, you're doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
If an M60 machinegun wipes out a guard post with nobody surviving to hear it, does it make a sound?
[QUOTE=cqbcat;47540047]As much as I like Deus Ex, games that let you chose between stealth and combat always seem to lean towards stealth. Like if you're mowing down the bad guys with a machine gun, you're doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
It's kind of like playing Iji, an indie game often likened to a Deus Ex-lite meets Metroidvania-lite. The game has a number of weapons and options for slaughtering the everliving fuck out of everything in your way, not to mention leveling your stats for combat, but if you actually do that pretty much the entire game chastizes you for violence and the protagonist herself pretty much goes bloodthirsty. The game instead really wants you to play pacifist, which is almost like playing a different game due to the way it's balanced - and even forces you to think outside the box to avoid a boss fight [sp]via making sure you're capable of making and using one of the most powerful weapons in the game to shoot a power core through a wall so you don't have to go to said fight.[/sp]
The option of killing everything in your way is fun, especially for stress relief if you've had way too much trouble with a game when going the stealthy route can be a bitch and a half, but Deus Ex and those that take after it [i]really[/i] try to make you feel bad and let you know just how amoral you are for gunning down legions of assholes and jerkasses tied to the conspiracies because that's just not [i]moral.[/i] And in Human Revolution's case, it was especially weird because all of your enemies [sp]until the end, what with the aug insanity circumstances[/sp] are mostly unsympathetic besides a police station early game, compared to the matters involving the NSF and UNATCO with plot twists turning you against former allies and questioning your morality all the way towards those involved.
[QUOTE=cqbcat;47540047]As much as I like Deus Ex, games that let you chose between stealth and combat always seem to lean towards stealth. Like if you're mowing down the bad guys with a machine gun, you're doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
Any Deus Ex style can I play, I play what I call "James Bond style" which is where you go as stealthy as possible until you fuck up and everything goes tits up. Then you just say fuck it and shoot yourself to safety.
[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;47559670]Any Deus Ex style can I play, I play what I call "James Bond style" which is where you go as stealthy as possible until you fuck up and everything goes tits up. Then you just say fuck it and shoot yourself to safety.[/QUOTE]
That's generally how it went for me with harder difficulty playthroughs or areas in MGS games.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;47540080]I hope by ghostable it means you can go through it without killing anyone, other than bosses I guess. And by that I mean just sneak past everyone, no take downs needed[/QUOTE]
It literally says you don't have to kill anyone including bosses.
[QUOTE=spekter;47560010]It literally says you don't have to kill anyone including bosses.[/QUOTE]
i think he means without having to engage in combat. punching someone in the face and knocking them out might not be killing them, yeah, but it serves the same purpose. it's also enjoyable to find clever ways to avoid conflict, but in deus ex it might mean less exp or rewards because the game expects you to engage your opponents.
[QUOTE=ragin cajun;47538437]hopefully your choices will actually matter for the game ending or how the game actually progresses unlike HR[/QUOTE]
i actually kinda disagree with this to be honest because i think it sort of hinders the experience a bit. reason being is that many people such as myself are semi "powergamer" in the sense of we want that [I]best[/I] ending possible - and if the ending is tied to the gameplay in too significant a manner, it can fuck that up.
case in point, the mass effect series. basically to get the full proper endings for either paragon or renegade, you had to pretty much do [I]every single[/I] choice in that direction for [B]the whole game[/B]. that's a bummer. if you didn't, the choices you would have near the end would be severely limited and mean that you wouldn't have access to interesting dialogue routes and more interesting parts of the story leading up to the ending choices. sometimes i want to punch an annoying reporter in the face. now I can't ask the illusive man that question! great!
by having the game ending tied to your gameplay throughout the entire game, it encourages an all or nothing playstyle, which doesn't really fall into the RPG part of it. you should be able to play however you please and not be limited in the end by your choices. i think that the method taken by deus ex 1 and hr was great in that sense, as was fallout new vegas.
I really come to dislike a variety of playstyles because of the way it feels like the game is punishing you for going outside the lines. I played Splinter Cell Blacklist for the second time not too long ago, and actually tried to stealth it through - surprisingly, that was actually a lot easier than going balls to the wall, especially since it has a set playstyle called Assault.
Deus Ex feels like it tries to overwhelm you if you go in shooting. Though, I recall it saying in one of the loading screens "Think outside the box, the easiest way is not always the best way."
[QUOTE=ragin cajun;47538437]hopefully your choices will actually matter for the game ending or how the game actually progresses unlike HR[/QUOTE]
depends, i thought it was EXTREMELY stupid that killing people in metro last light gave you a bad ending. The game had excellent firefight moments but gives you a terrible ending for doing said firefights.
it should be like fallout with karma points. killing innocents or people just trying to do their jobs is bad. killing thugs, Illuminati soldiers, or PMC assholes would be neutral while knocking them out is positive karma.
[QUOTE=cqbcat;47540047]As much as I like Deus Ex, games that let you chose between stealth and combat always seem to lean towards stealth. Like if you're mowing down the bad guys with a machine gun, you're doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
In fallout/stalker/metro there's a nice blend where you shoot when it's best to shoot and sneak when it's best to sneak, and even characters heavily focussed on one style can swap into the other when necessary (my fallout 3 stealth/sniper once had to breach and clear an entire dungeon with a flamer because she was out of ammo)
Having the ghosting being possible (though not necessarily ideal or even easy) is an excellent feature though. It's easy to make guns a possible route to victory, it's much harder to do something else.
Violence solves everything after all.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;47560909]i actually kinda disagree with this to be honest because i think it sort of hinders the experience a bit. reason being is that many people such as myself are semi "powergamer" in the sense of we want that [I]best[/I] ending possible - and if the ending is tied to the gameplay in too significant a manner, it can fuck that up.
case in point, the mass effect series. basically to get the full proper endings for either paragon or renegade, you had to pretty much do [I]every single[/I] choice in that direction for [B]the whole game[/B]. that's a bummer. if you didn't, the choices you would have near the end would be severely limited and mean that you wouldn't have access to interesting dialogue routes and more interesting parts of the story leading up to the ending choices. sometimes i want to punch an annoying reporter in the face. now I can't ask the illusive man that question! great!
by having the game ending tied to your gameplay throughout the entire game, it encourages an all or nothing playstyle, which doesn't really fall into the RPG part of it. you should be able to play however you please and not be limited in the end by your choices. i think that the method taken by deus ex 1 and hr was great in that sense, as was fallout new vegas.[/QUOTE]
In Mass Effect's case it was just a poor implementation of mechanics. Every Paragon/Renegade choice literally had a point value associated with it and if you didn't have enough points you couldn't access the option. This isn't "your choices affect the ending", it's a hamhanded way of driving players to extremes. Paragon and Renegade choices were seen by the developers as rewards for sticking to a certain path, where each option would always end a situation decisively, when they should have been used as opposing views on how situations are handled.
In a game where your choices actually affect the ending there should be no such thing as a best ending. I also disagree that you shouldn't be limited by your choices, making choices in many cases is choosing one path over another and you absolutely should be limited because of that. The limits imposed on you just have to make sense, like in New Vegas if you do too many missions for Cesaer's Legion you can't go into NCR controlled areas without a disguise because you're their enemy, this limitation forces you to play like an actual Legion spy.
[editline]20th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=AlexGT;47561149]I really come to dislike a variety of playstyles because of the way it feels like the game is punishing you for going outside the lines. I played Splinter Cell Blacklist for the second time not too long ago, and actually tried to stealth it through - surprisingly, that was actually a lot easier than going balls to the wall, especially since it has a set playstyle called Assault.
Deus Ex feels like it tries to overwhelm you if you go in shooting. Though, I recall it saying in one of the loading screens "Think outside the box, the easiest way is not always the best way."[/QUOTE]
Well Splinter Cell is a stealth series, the first two games would end the mission if you triggered three alarms, and the third would give enemies more armour for every alarm. Being a killing machine only became an option in Conviction because [i]the new director of a stealth series hates stealth games[/i] and wanted it to be an action game. No a surprise it's the least liked in the series. Blacklist was them going mostly back to the old style and I think if they had a different director the Assault playstyle wouldn't have been included in the game.
[editline]20th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=codemaster85;47561150]depends, i thought it was EXTREMELY stupid that killing people in metro last light gave you a bad ending. The game had excellent firefight moments but gives you a terrible ending for doing said firefights.
it should be like fallout with karma points. killing innocents or people just trying to do their jobs is bad. killing thugs, Illuminati soldiers, or PMC assholes would be neutral while knocking them out is positive karma.[/QUOTE]
Killing people was only part of what gave you a bad ending in Last Light. I killed literally every enemy in the game and I still got the good ending, all you have to do to get the good ending is to look around and listen to people.
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