• Einstein was an atheist.
    151 replies, posted
[quote] [quote] [IMG]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/121003065624-einstein-letter-envelope-story-top.jpg[/IMG] [/quote] Decades before atheist scientist and author Richard Dawkins called God a "delusion," one world-renowned physicist - Albert Einstein - was weighing in on faith matters with his own strong words. “[B]The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,[/B]” Einstein wrote in German in a 1954 letter that will be auctioned on eBay later this month. "[B]No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.[/B]” Dubbed Einstein’s “God Letter” by the Los Angeles-based auction agency that's posting it online, the original document will be up for grabs starting Monday. The opening bid: $3 million. The letter provides a window into the famed genius's religious beliefs. Einstein wrote it to Jewish philosopher Eric Gutkind, one year before Einstein died, in reaction to Gutkind’s book, “Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt.” “I’ve been managing high profile auctions since 2005, and this is the most historically significant item to come up ... since I’ve been doing auctions,” said Eric Gazin, president of Auction Cause, the group that's organizing the eBay auction. Einstein was “one of the most brilliant minds to ever live, but so much of what we know is scientific. … As related to God and Judaism, this is so significant. It really lends itself to further study,” Gazin told CNN. “No one even knew this letter existed till recently.” But Diana Kormos Buchwald, a history professor at the California Institute of Technology and the director of the Einstein Papers Project, says that's not true. She said copies of this letter, not to mention numerous additional writings reflecting similar sentiments, have been known to researchers and available for decades, both in the Pasadena-based Einstein Papers Project and The Albert Einstein Archives at Hebrew University in Jerusalem. The Einstein Papers Project recently published its 13th volume of Einstein’s collected papers. Einstein, who was raised a secular Jew, was open about his religious views starting in the 1920s, when he became a public figure after winning the 1921 Nobel Prize in Physics, Buchwald said. And biographers, including Walter Isaacson, have documented Einstein’s faith journey. “There are no revelations here,” Buchwald said of the so-called God letter. “But it is frank in the sense that there are other writings where he says he understands a need for religion and is not derogatory. … Here he makes his own position very clear.” In the letter about to be offered on eBay, Einstein drove home his strong opposition to the idea that Jews, or any people, may be “chosen.” Here’s part of what he wrote, according to the Auction Cause translation: [quote] For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups … I cannot see anything ‘chosen’ about them. [/quote] Buchwald, who has dedicated her life to making Einstein’s works available, believes any discussion of historic documents has value, but she is critical of how this letter is being presented. There are word choices in the translation that she, as a German speaker, would tweak. She also doesn’t get why it’s said to be written on Princeton University letterhead, when a blown-up image shows it wasn't. Einstein wasn’t even employed there, she pointed out; he was with the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, not at Princeton. Though she views such incongruities as "a bit muddy," she said she wishes the auction agency and seller luck. "It's just hype. ... I don't have a horse in this race." The letter first became fodder for public discussion and mass fascination when the original sold at a London auction in May 2008 and “poured gasoline on the culture wars between science and religion,” The New York Times reported. Back then, it fetched a mere $404,000. Among the bidders who reportedly lost out that time around: big-name atheist and author Richard Dawkins. Gazin of Auction Cause, which pairs marketing with charities, said the 2008 anonymous buyer sought his group out for the Einstein letter's sale after noting the agency's other successes. Topping the list: the $2.1 million raked in for an October 2007 letter from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, and signed by 41 other Democrat leaders, demanding an apology from Rush Limbaugh. "More than a few” potential buyers have gotten prequalified to enter this upcoming Einstein letter bidding war, Gazin said. He described those expressing interest so far as people in the technology and atheist communities, as well as university and public museums. At the current owner’s request, Gazin said, an unspecified portion of the letter's proceeds will go to cancer research. For those not interested in such heady materials, Auction Cause is offering some less profound items on eBay this month: the dress Maria Menounos wore to the Emmys; shoes from Kourtney Kardashian's closet and time with Howard Stern in the shock-jock's studio. ==================== Source: [URL]http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/04/einstein-letter-set-for-auction-shows-scientist-challenging-idea-of-god-being-chosen/?hpt=hp_c2[/URL] [/quote] I guess this settles it. [I][B]"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,[/B] [B]No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." EDIT: [/B][/I]Why the clocks? This is not old news.. Until the release of this, Einstein was at best a deist/pantheist. [I][B]EDIT #2:[/B][/I] [quote][IMG]http://blogs.nature.com/news/files/einstein letter Bloomsbury Auctions.jpg[/IMG][/quote]
I thought this was obvious...
Even if he didn't admit it himself,you can already tell he would either be atheist/agnostic anyways.
Didn't we already know this?
I thought he was pantheist.
[quote]For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. [B]As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups … I cannot see anything ‘chosen’ about them.[/B][/quote]Exactly, I don't understand what's so special about just Muslim people, or what's so special about just Christian people, I don't get why they think they're more special than others just because they're shitty false book says so.
[QUOTE=Killer900;37921059]Exactly, I don't understand what's so special about just Muslim people, or what's so special about just Christian people, I don't get why they think they're more special than others just because they're shitty false book says so.[/QUOTE] It's one thing to say that you consider them no more 'special' than you or I but to call their religious texts 'shitty false books' is a bit of an obnoxious thing to do I'm fine with atheists, but the sort that go around bitching about religion and putting down religious people are no better than the religious people that go around bitching about other religions or atheists.
People who can't tolerate peoples beliefs and do shit just to provoke others are extremely stupid.
I thought there were some quotes by him that sounded like he was some form of thiest? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.
I have a friend who has, more than once, said that he thinks 'all religions need to be banned'. Shit like that makes me angry. Like a few extremists getting violent is enough reason to dismantle millions of millions of people's belief systems.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;37921077]It's one thing to say that you consider them no more 'special' than you or I but to call their religious texts 'shitty false books' is a bit of an obnoxious thing to do I'm fine with atheists, but the sort that go around bitching about religion and putting down religious people are no better than the religious people that go around bitching about other religions or atheists.[/QUOTE]Ok maybe they aren't "shitty false books", but I very much doubt their credibility.
Thank god. Maybe now my dumb atheist friend will stop going "CHRISTIANITY IS BAD BECAUSE EINSTEIN WAS A CHRISTIAN AND HE WASTED SO MANY YEARS OF HIS LIFE TRYING TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD WHEN HE COULD HAVE BEEN DOING OTHER STUFF".
I know it's a meme but.....YOU DON'T SAY???
[QUOTE=Chernarus;37921112]People who can't tolerate peoples beliefs and do shit just to provoke others are extremely stupid.[/QUOTE] I don't tolerate stupidity in any form.
[QUOTE=Killer900;37921131]Ok maybe they aren't "shitty false books", but I very much doubt their credibility.[/QUOTE] I hate to sound blunt but I don't really see how whether or not you think they are credible has any relevance to anybody else
Does it really matter?
I know this is old news but even back then what's the point of this being announced? If Einstein was a satanic child molester who eats babies it would still have no affect on the scientific merit his research and works he's produced.
I'm pretty sure Einstein was a pantheist; he believed the universe itself was god, an allness, which was reflected on all of his work, as well as his downfall where he refused to accept quantum mechanics. He was not an atheist, nor a Christian, Jew or any other major belief. He did not believe in a personal god, but rather an impersonal one. Quite a spiritual man. [QUOTE="Einstein"]I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details. Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind. My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge. Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. When the solution is simple, God is answering. God does not play dice with the universe. God is subtle but he is not malicious. The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.[/QUOTE]
I thought it was obvious that people with higher education, and especially scientists are all atheists (pantheists, determinists, etc) and avoid common religions like the plague that they are.
Pretty sure this was already known. I read about it in the God Delusion which was published six years ago.
[quote=Einstein]Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.[/quote] That is probably one of the best quotes I've seen. [editline]5th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jack Trades;37921256]like the plague that they are.[/QUOTE] Be careful, those jews might drown you in baklava!
[quote]It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.[/quote] Einstein even said he was atheist.
[QUOTE=mac338;37921210]I'm pretty sure Einstein was a pantheist; he believed the universe itself was god, an allness, which was reflected on all of his work, as well as his downfall where he refused to accept quantum mechanics. He was not an atheist, nor a Christian, Jew or any other major belief. He did not believe in a personal god, but rather an impersonal one. Quite a spiritual man.[/QUOTE] To me this sounds like he was pretty good with hermetics. Stuff's quite interesting, I can suggest to take a look. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism[/url]
Atheist, not an atheist, it's so God damned pointless. Whether you believe in a God or not, it still doesn't change that we live on this planet here floating in space, and we seem to keep on living our individual lives to no end one after another. And during that time, we can obviously do things, like choosing to be an atheist or not. Woop-di-doo.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;37921129]I have a friend who has, more than once, said that he thinks 'all religions need to be banned'. Shit like that makes me angry. Like a few extremists getting violent is enough reason to dismantle millions of millions of people's belief systems.[/QUOTE] hey guys guys listen i have this great idea to stop people from killing others over their religion being oppressed lets just guys come on lets just make their religions against the law yeah yeah thatll stop their killing
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;37921480]Atheist, not an atheist, it's so God damned pointless. Whether you believe in a God or not, it still doesn't change that we live on this planet here floating in space, and we seem to keep on living our individual lives to no end one after another. And during that time, we can obviously do things, like choosing to be an atheist or not. Woop-di-doo.[/QUOTE] That's a very good position to take, sick of all the hate mongering between belief systems here, we're all in this together, least we can do is respect each others choices.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;37921480]Atheist, not an atheist, it's so God damned pointless. Whether you believe in a God or not, it still doesn't change that we live on this planet here floating in space, and we seem to keep on living our individual lives to no end one after another. And during that time, we can obviously do things, like choosing to be an atheist or not. Woop-di-doo.[/QUOTE] Tell that to extremists.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;37921480]Atheist, not an atheist, it's so God damned pointless. Whether you believe in a God or not, it still doesn't change that we live on this planet here floating in space, and we seem to keep on living our individual lives to no end one after another. And during that time, we can obviously do things, like choosing to be an atheist or not. Woop-di-doo.[/QUOTE] So, allowing self-destructive views which promote the "fact" that we will be saved by a higher power, opening the options for a carefree "act now, there's no consequences later" attitude -- is that better than a "It's up to us to help ourselves" attitude. How can you create such a simplistic dichotomy?
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;37921548]Tell that to extremists.[/QUOTE] Yeah, well..
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;37921123]I thought there were some quotes by him that sounded like he was some form of thiest? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.[/QUOTE] I think it was, in the context of quantum theory. 'God does not play dice'
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