UFOs, why I believe they exist and am not totally crazy.

[detectivep]

[b]I thank you for taking the time to actually read, READ, the whole thread, or at least skim it, and not pointing out that you still don't believe when I'm not trying to convince you to within 1 minute of the posting of this thread, or directly contradicting the third paragraph, or rating me dumb and then having me directly support and agree with your statement within the OP anyhow, or saying "well this that bla" when I've already pointed out, in bold, my response to something or where to find my response. Thank you for doing so. I do not believe in aliens, that is all.[/b]

UFOs have a general reputation in this day and age as being believed in and seen only by crazies, drunks, or liars. Here on FP, running jokes/memes have been well established that anything involving a UFO is a weather balloon/swamp gas/etc. It's obvious that most people here do not believe in UFOs.

Now, in most threads, you always get some people who are like "hurr i belib in u.f.o.s lol b/c i belib in unidentified flying objekts lol" and "I believe in aliens, just not that they are visiting Earth." Well, for the record, when I talk about UFOs, I mean unidentified craft that are connected to the common UFO phenomena, which in turn is connected to the extraterrestrial phenomena, and by aliens and ETs I bloody mean those visiting Earth. So now that we have gotten that out of the way, I will now present some point on why I believe in the UFO phenomena.

[B]1)Close Encounters of the Second Kind[/B]
If you are unfamiliar with the Hynek classification system, he classifies the UFO phenomena into three categories:

[U]CC of the First Kind[/U]: A UFO is observed
[U]CC of the Second Kind[/U]: A UFO is observed, and physical evidence is present.
[U]CC of the Third Kind[/U]: A UFO and its occupants are observed.

Some others added a bunch of bullshit ones after that. The most intriguing of all and the hardest to debunk are the Second Kind. If it weren't for the Second Kind, I wouldn't pay much attention to this whole thing.

There have been many close encounters of the Second Kind that have provided evidence that is extremely hard to deny. I will present some here:

Cash-Landrum Incident:
[quote]The evening of December 29, 1980, Betty Cash, Vickie Landrum and Colby Landrum (Vickie's seven-year-old grandson) were driving home to Dayton, Texas in Cash's Oldsmobile Cutlass after dining out.
At about 9.00 p.m., while driving on an isolated two-lane road in dense woods, the witnesses said they observed a light above some trees. They initially thought the light was an airplane approaching Houston Intercontinental Airport (about 35 miles away) and gave it little notice.
A few minutes later on the winding roads, the witnesses saw what they took to be the same light as before, but it was now much closer and very bright. The light, they would claim, came from a huge diamond-shaped object, which hovered at about treetop level. The object's base was expelling flame and emitting significant heat.
Vickie Landrum told Cash to stop the car, fearing they would be burned if they approached any closer. However, Vickie's opinion of the object quickly changed: a born again Christian, she interpreted the object as a sign of the second coming of Jesus Christ, telling her grandson, "That's Jesus. He will not hurt us." (Clark, 175)
Anxious, Cash considered turning the car around, but abandoned this idea because the road was too narrow and she presumed the car would get stuck on the dirt shoulders, which were soft from that evening's rains.
Cash and Landrum got out of the car to examine the object. Colby was terrified, however, and Vickie Landrum quickly returned to the car to comfort the frantic child. Cash remained outside the car, "mesmerized by the bizarre sight," as Jerome Clark wrote. (Clark, 175) He went on,
The object, intensely bright and a dull metallic silver, was shaped like a huge upright diamond, about the size of the Dayton water tower, with its top and bottom cut off so that they were flat rather than pointed. Small blue lights ringed the center, and periodically over the next few minutes flames shot out of the bottom, flaring outward, creating the effect of a large cone. Every time the fire dissipated, the UFO floated a few feet downwards toward the road. But when the flames blasted out again, the object rose about the same distance." (Clark, 175)
The witnesses said the heat was strong enough to make the car's metal body painful to the touch—Cash said she had to use her coat to protect her hand from being burnt when she finally re-entered the car. When she touched the car's dashboard, Vickie Landrum's hand pressed into the softened vinyl, leaving an imprint that was evident weeks later. Investigators cited this handprint as proof of the witnesses' account; however, no photograph of the alleged handprint exists.
The object then moved to a point higher in the sky. As it ascended over the treetops, the witnesses claimed that a group of helicopters approached the object and surrounded it in tight formation. Cash and Landrum counted 23 helicopters, and later identified some of them as tandem-rotor CH-47 Chinooks used by military forces worldwide.
With the road now clear, Cash drove on, claiming to see glimpses of the object and the helicopters receding into the distance.[/quote]

Why is this incident exceptional? Because of this:

[quote]After the UFO and helicopters left, Cash took the Landrums home, then retired for the evening. That night, they all experienced similar symptoms, though Cash to a greater degree. All suffered from nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, generalized weakness, a burning sensation in their eyes, and feeling as though they'd suffered sunburns.
Over the next few days, Cash's symptoms worsened, with many large, painful blisters forming on her skin. When taken to a hospital emergency room on January 3, 1981, Clark writes, Cash "could not walk, and had lost large patches of skin and clumps of hair. She was released after 12 days, though her condition was not much better, and she later returned to the hospital for another 15 days."(Clark, 176)
The Landrums' health was somewhat better, though both suffered from lingering weakness, skin sores and hair loss.
A radiologist who examined the witnesses' medical records for MUFON wrote, "We have strong evidence that these patients have suffered secondary damage to ionizing radiation. It is also possible that there was an infrared or ultraviolet component as well." (quoted in Clark, 176)
However, Brad Sparks contends that, although the symptoms were somewhat similar to those caused by ionizing radiation, the rapidity of onset was only consistent with a massive dose that would have meant certain death in a few days. Since all of the victims lived for years after the incident, Sparks suggests the cause of the symptoms was some kind of chemical contamination, presumably by an aerosol.[/quote]

[quote]Coincidentally, Betty Cash died at the age of 69 on December 29, 1998, exactly 18 years after her claimed close encounter.[/quote]

A large portion of the road in which the incident took place was also charred.

The Delphos CE2:

A classical incident taking place in 1971. A boy, Ronald Johnson, 16, saw a bright light lowering itself to the ground in a forested area. As he retrieved his parents, they both stated that they saw the light retreating into the sky. The ground under the object was affected, aswell as the surrounding trees. Ted Phillips, a UFO investigator, Thaddia Smith, a reporter for the [i]Republican[/i], Ottawa County Sheriff Ralph Enlow, Kansas Highway Patrol Trooper Kenneth Yager, and Undersheriff Harlan Elow each saw the effects. The trees had branches, limbs, and leaves removed, and damaged had been done tot he bark. A small dead tree was crushed and toppled. The soil was turned white in a ring under the light, and was 'crystallized'. According to the Johnsons, it created numbness when touched. When the crystal dust was wiped from Mrs Johnson's hands onto her pantleg, her leg became numb. The numbness lasted for weeks.

The ring of modified soil lasted for over 32 days. Soil samples taken the day after the incident from in and outside the ring were sent into local universities. The inner ring samples did not absorb water, contained more salts, had 2-2.5 times more calcium, produced less seed growth, were covered with a low molecular weight hydrocarbon that could be removed only be heating to 100 degrees Celsius or washing in ethyl alcohol. Also mixed within the soil was a second substance composed of white crystal-like fibers. The inner-ring samples were compared to the outer-ring samples, which contained none of the above.

One analyst, Michael D. Swords, stated that "There seems to be no question that the surface soil was hydrophobic, luminescent, and anesthetic, but what this can be attributed to is unknown."

Marshall County:

Deputy Sheriff Val Johnson was driving northbound in Red River Valley, MN, at 1:40 am on Aug 27, 1979, and noticed a bright light in a group of trees about a mile and a half off the road. As the light moved, he sped up to keep up alongside it. The light suddenly bolted at his vehicle. Johnson stated that it became extremely bright extremely fast- the light had crossed the large distance almost instantaneous. He did not know what happened next. He awakened 40 minutes later. His car had received major damage and he had received damage to his head and eyes. Deputy Greg Winskowski found him in his car after he radioed for assistance. The ambulance driver diagnosed he was in a mild state of shock, and Dr. W. A. Pinsonneault stated his eyes had a mild pink color to them, were irritated, and were suffering from "mild welders burns". Johnson gave a taped statement at 5 a.m. and was returned home.

Smashed headlights, bent antennas, impact marks over the car and multiple impacts and marks on the windshield occurred to the car. All parts were sent to material testing, vehicle testing, and windshield making companies nearby for testing under an official police investigation. All marks could be explained by small objects, such as stones, smashing into the car at high speeds, however the distances and established differences in time of impacts were strange. Three impacts on the outside of the windshield and one on the inside happened with great pressure, within milliseconds of each other, and in different directions.

One investigator, Meridan French, a windshield expert from the Glass Division of Ford Motor Co. flown in for the case, stated that "Even after several days of reflection on the crack patterns and apparent sequence of fractures, I still have no explanation for what seem to be inward and outward forces acting simultaneously. I can only [conclude]...that all cracks were from mechanical forces of unknown source."

All damage to antennas and lights must have been done by a force applying uniform pressure of many pounds over the entire affected area, as determined by a team of engineers at the material testing center at Honeywell, Inc., MN.

[B]2) Mass Sightings, Military Sightings, and similar[/B]

Battle of LA:
[quote]Air raid sirens were sounded throughout Los Angeles County on the night of 24 - 25 February 1942. A total blackout was ordered and thousands of air raid wardens were summoned to their positions. At 3:16 a.m. the 37th Coast Artillery Brigade began firing 12.8-pound anti-aircraft shells into the air at reported aircraft; over 1,400 shells would eventually be fired. Pilots of the 4th Interceptor Command were alerted but their aircraft remained grounded. The artillery fire continued sporadically until 4:14 a.m. The "all clear" was sounded and the blackout order lifted at 7:21 a.m.
In addition to several buildings damaged by friendly fire, three civilians were killed by the anti-aircraft fire, and another three died of heart attacks attributed to the stress of the hour-long bombardment. The incident was front-page news along the U.S. Pacific coast, and earned some mass media coverage throughout the nation.[/quote]

[quote]Initially, the target of the aerial barrage was thought to be an attacking force from Japan, but speaking at a press conference shortly afterward Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox called the incident a "false alarm." Newspapers of the time published a number of sensational reports and speculations of a cover-up. A small number of modern-day UFOlogists have suggested the targets were extraterrestrial spacecraft. When documenting the incident in 1983, the U.S. Office of Air Force History attributed the event to a case of "war nerves" likely triggered by a lost weather balloon and exacerbated by stray flares and shell bursts from adjoining batteries.[/quote]

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Battle_of_Los_Angeles_LATimes.jpg[/img]

News story running the following day. Top left image is of a group of or a craft. The image has been analyzed and has been confirmed not to be a weather balloon due to size, shape, and luminosity.

Witnesses have claimed that there were indeed many craft, and one large one, which all moved at times (according to radar operators) at almost 5 miles per second. Some objects were viewed to have taken direct hits. No objects were apparently damaged.

Over 100 accounts, newspaper articles of the time, and the given photo dispute the official explanation of balloon bombs, and then later the explanation of weather balloons.

Belgium Triangle:

In Nov. 1989 to April 1990, Belgium had a large-scale UFO wave, the majority of which were centered around triangle-shaped craft and triangle-formationed lights.

[quote]The Belgian UFO wave peaked with the events of the night of 30/31 March 1990. On that night unknown objects were tracked on radar, photographed, and were sighted by an estimated 13,500 people on the ground - 2,600 of whom filed written statements describing in detail what they had seen.[1] Following the incident the Belgian air force released a report detailing the events of that night.
At around 23:00 on 30 March the supervisor for the Control Reporting Center (CRC) at Glons received reports that three unusual lights were seen moving towards Thorembais-Gembloux which lies to the South-East of Brussels. The lights were reported to be brighter than stars, changing color between red, green and yellow, and appeared to be fixed at the vertices of an equilateral triangle. At this point Glons CRC requested the Wavre gendarmerie send a patrol to confirm the sighting.
Approximately 10 minutes later a second set of lights was sighted moving towards the first triangle. By around 23:30 the Wavre gendarmerie had confirmed the initial sightings and Glons CRC had been able to observe the phenomenon on radar. During this time the second set of lights, after some erratic manoeuvres, had also formed themselves into a smaller triangle. After tracking the targets and after receiving a second radar confirmation from the Traffic Center Control at Semmerzake, Glons CRC gave the order to scramble two F-16 fighters from Beauvechain Air Base shortly before midnight. Throughout this time the phenomenon was still clearly visible from the ground, with witnesses describing the whole formation as maintaining their relative positions while moving slowly across the sky. Witnesses also reported two dimmer lights towards the municipality of Eghezee displaying similar erratic movements to the second set of lights.
Over the next hour the two scrambled F-16s attempted nine separate interceptions of the targets. On three occasions they managed to obtain a radar lock for a few seconds but each time the targets changed position and speed so rapidly that the lock was broken. During the first radar lock, the target accelerated from 240 km/h to over 1,770 km/h while changing altitude from 2,700 m to 1,500 m, then up to 3,350 m before descending to almost ground level – the first descent of more than 900 m taking less than two seconds. Similar manoeuvres were observed during both subsequent radar locks. On no occasion were the F-16 pilots able to make visual contact with the targets and at no point, despite the speeds involved, was there any indication of a sonic boom. Moreover, narrator Robert Stack added in an episode of Unsolved Mysteries, the sudden changes in acceleration and deceleration would have been fatal to one or more human pilots.
During this time, ground witnesses broadly corroborate the information obtained by radar. They described seeing the smaller triangle completely disappear from sight at one point, while the larger triangle moved upwards very rapidly as the F-16s flew past. After 00:30 radar contact became much more sporadic and the final confirmed lock took place at 00:40. This final lock was once again broken by an acceleration from around 160 km/h to 1,120 km/h after which the radar of the F-16s and those at Glons and Semmerzake all lost contact. Following several further unconfirmed contacts the F-16s eventually returned to base shortly after 01:00.
The final details of the sighting were provided by the members of the Wavre gendarmerie who had been sent to confirm the original report. They describe four lights now being arranged in a square formation, all making short jerky movements, before gradually losing their luminosity and disappearing in four separate directions at around 01:30.[/quote]

Belgium became the first nation to officially accept the existence of UFOs openly after the wave. To this date, they have not attempted to give any alternate explanations, deny the violations of airspace and government/military intervention, and the sightings of police officers, civilians, and military personnel.

1952 DC sightings and radar contacts:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Washington_D.C._UFO_incident#Publicity_and_Air_Force_reaction[/url]

Between July 19 and 27, hundreds sighted lights/objects over Washington DC in spurts at near the same time. During most sightings, Andrews AFB and Washington National Airport received multiple contacts on their radars.

1976 Iran incident:

[quote]The 1976 Tehran UFO Incident was a radar and visual sighting of an unidentified flying object (UFO) over Tehran, the capital of Iran, during the early morning hours of 19 September 1976. The incident is particularly notable for the electromagnetic interference effects observed upon aircraft coming within close proximity to the object: two F-4 Phantom II jet interceptors independently lost instrumentation and communications as they approached, only to have them restored upon withdrawal; one of the aircraft suffered temporary weapons systems failure, while preparing to open fire.
The incident, extensively recorded in a four-page U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) report distributed to at least the White House, Secretary of State, Joint Chiefs of Staff, National Security Agency (NSA) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), remains one of the most well-documented military encounters with anomalous phenomena in history, and various senior Iranian military officers directly involved with the events have gone on public record stating their belief that the object was not of terrestrial origin.[/quote]

Kecksburg:

[quote]The Kecksburg UFO incident occurred on December 9, 1965 at Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, USA. A large, brilliant fireball was seen by thousands in at least six U.S. states and Ontario, Canada[If the meteor-like object and the crashed object are the same, otherwise, only near 100]. It streaked over the Detroit, Michigan/Windsor, Ontario area, reportedly dropped hot metal debris over Michigan and northern Ohio [1], starting some grass fires [2] and caused sonic booms in Western Pennsylvania. It was generally assumed and reported by the press to be a meteor.
However, eyewitnesses in the small village of Kecksburg, about 30 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, claimed something crashed in the woods. A boy said he saw the object land; his mother saw a wisp of blue smoke arising from the woods and alerted authorities. Others from Kecksburg, including local volunteer fire department members, reported finding an object in the shape of an acorn and about as large as a Volkswagen Beetle. Writing resembling Egyptian hieroglyphics was also said to be in a band around the base of the object. Witnesses further reported that intense military presence, most notably the United States Army, secured the area, ordered civilians out, and then removed the object on a flatbed truck. At the time, however, the military claimed they searched the woods and found "absolutely nothing".[/quote]

Clayton Incident:

[quote]The Westall UFO encounter is an event claimed to have occurred on 6 April 1966 in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Around 11.00 am, for about 20 minutes, more than 200 students and teachers at two Victorian state schools allegedly witnessed an unexplained flying object that descended into a nearby open wild grass field. The paddock was adjacent to a grove of pine trees in an area known as The Grange (now a nature reserve). The object then ascended in a north-westerly direction over the suburb of Clayton South, Victoria, Australia.[1][2][3][/quote]

Hudson Valley flap:

[quote]The Hudson River valley of New York state was the site of one of the most widely witnessed and extended episodes of UFO activity ever. Literally thousands of witnesses observed the objects, and many photos and videos were taken. The "siege" begot over 7,000 documented and investigated sightings of a boomerang-shaped craft or crafts moving silently through the sky over New York and Connecticut between 1982 and 1995.[/quote]

Phoenix Lights:

[quote]The Phoenix Lights (sometimes referred to as the "lights over Phoenix") were a series of widely sighted optical phenomena (generally unidentified flying objects) that occurred in the skies over the U.S. states of Arizona and Nevada, and the Mexican state of Sonora on March 13, 1997. A repeat of the lights occurred February 6, 2007, and was filmed by the local Fox News TV station.[2][3]
Lights of varying descriptions were seen by thousands of people between 19:30 and 22:30 MST, in a space of about 300 miles, from the Nevada line, through Phoenix, to the edge of Tucson. There were two distinct events involved in the incident: a triangular formation of lights seen to pass over the state, and a series of stationary lights seen in the Phoenix area. The United States Air Force (USAF) [claims] identified the second group of lights as flares dropped by A-10 Warthog aircraft which were on training exercises at the Barry Goldwater Range in southwest Arizona. Witnesses claim to have observed a huge carpenter's square-shaped UFO, containing lights or possibly light-emitting engines. Fife Symington,[4] the governor at the time, was one witness to this incident; he later called the object "otherworldly."[/quote]

Symington denies that the lights over the city were flares, and many researches, some of them skeptics, have also disputed this.

[b]3) Reliable Witnesses:[/b]

Thousands of police, military, and government personnel have claimed sightings of UFOs. There you go. These are some of the most reliable and trustworthy individuals of our society.

Even Jimmy Carter, the US president, has admitted seeing a UFO and filed an official report while he was governor of Georgia:

[quote]The Jimmy Carter UFO Incident is the name given to an incident in which Jimmy Carter (US President 1977-1981) reported seeing an unidentified flying object while at Leary, Georgia in 1969.
While governor of Georgia, Carter was asked to file a report of the sighting by the International UFO Bureau in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, which he did in September 1973.[1] Since its writing, the report has been discussed several times by both Ufologists and by members of the mainstream media.[2][3][4] Carter doubts that the object was an alien spacecraft.[/quote]

The scientific consultant for three Air Force UFO investigations (Projects Sign, Grudge, and Bluebook), and astronomer, J. Allen Hynek, changed his opinion to that of "wavering skepticism" after viewing multiple reports he felt could not be explained.

The guy they ordered to debunk UFOs himself found a slight belief in them.

[b]So what are they?[/b]

Undoubtedly, some, if not most, are military craft, natural phenomena, natural gas, astronomical objects, hoaxes, misidentifications, etc etc etc. But many can not be explained as any of these, and it is likely that they are not natural phenomena, but something else.

The UFO movement got stuck with the alien visitor movement after the Contactee joke of a movement and the Abduction movements. While it does seem to me to be likely that they are alien craft, it could also just as well be secret Nazi disks, time travelers, or assworms with wings. The only evidence of ETs being behind the UFO phenomena are the claims of individuals under cultural pressures, pre-induced assumptions, and people who are outright nuts or liars.

[b]But DetectiveP, they cannot get here bla bla speed of light bla bla[/b]

[url]http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=19111763&postcount=60[/url]

My response to that.

[b]Well, what about weather balloons/swamp gas/Venus?[/b]
The weather balloon thing came from Roswell, and was bullshit for several reasons that I won't get started on. It became to go-to explanation for UFOs int he 40s, 50s, and early 60s. Most of the time, the weather balloon explanation is revoked and replaced after a few hours, days, or after many years when they can think up something better.

Swamp gas claim came from my home state, Michigan, during Bluebook and again was bullshit, because the area of the sighting does not have any goddam swamp gas in or near it, and even then the explanation given disregards claims of movement, hovering, stability in luminosity and shape, etc.

The Venus explanation, while the most likely of the three here, came from an incident in which an airforce pilot, Mantell, crashed his plane. He was chasing a UFO. According to the official explanation, he was mistaking the planet Venus for a flying saucer. He cashed his plane chasing Venus, so they say.

[b]Other shit[/b]

There are alot of science-minded individuals who apply real science and real investigations to UFOs. When we investigate this stuff, we don't base it on personal beliefs and psuedo-science, we apply the same observation skills to these incidents as an officer would to a car crash, or an official to a plane crash, or an interviewer to one who saw a fugitive. The investigation of UFOs, commonly called Ufology semi-seriously, is not about proving the existence of UFOs, it's about investigating the phenomena, and thats all. The best of us start with the preconception that cases are hoaxes or misidentifications and work from there, not that they are UFOs or craft from the beginning.

I know that in this topic I'm basically trying to prove their existence- it may seem that way, but the point of this thread is for me to explain how there is at least some evidence for what could be a UFO phenomena and that you don't need to be crazy to believe in it. Whether or not you believe in UFOs is a personal choice I hope you make based on research and not common misconceptions and beliefs- that is, read into it before making a decision, whether that be of skepticism, disbelief or belief.

That is all, tata. I will be happy to take criticism and questions.

And no I don't believe in 99% of conspiracy theories, I don't believe in psychics, ghosts, paranormal stuff, most of cryptozoology, etc etc.

tl;dr
I am not crazy, nor are most people, for believing in UFOs as there is quite a bit of evidence that there might be a real phenomena to take seriously, based on physical evidence, documented reports, and reliable witnesses.

Feel free to rate me dumb because I base my beliefs on research and documented evidence and made my decision based on reasearch, or because I believe in aliens (which I don't) not that many of you would know that because you haven't read any of this.

[hehe]

I still dont believe in them.

[Hunterbrute]

If you dont think UFOs are real then you are pretty :downs:.

Just because something is a UFO doesnt make it aliens, military, or whatever else, its unidentified.

[detectivep]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;23243036]If you dont think UFOs are real then you are pretty :downs:.

Just because something is a UFO doesnt make it aliens, military, or whatever else, its unidentified.[/QUOTE]

"Well, for the record, when I talk about UFOs, I mean unidentified craft that are connected to the common UFO phenomena, which in turn is connected to the extraterrestrial phenomena, and by aliens and ETs I bloody mean those visiting Earth."

[Hunterbrute]

[QUOTE=Detective P;23243060]"Well, for the record, when I talk about UFOs, I mean unidentified craft that are connected to the common UFO phenomena, which in turn is connected to the extraterrestrial phenomena, and by aliens and ETs I bloody mean those visiting Earth."[/QUOTE]

And half the stories you read on that shit sounds far fetched as hell and pulled out of someones ass. Just because people make connections between things doesnt mean they have anything to do with eachother.

[BuG]

Well, to me it's not a question to weather if there's something out there, it's how far we're from it.

[Dr. Freeman]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;23243132]And half the stories you read on that shit sounds far fetched as hell and pulled out of someones ass. Just because people make connections between things doesnt mean they have anything to do with eachother.[/QUOTE]

This man speaks the truth and nothing but the truth.

[detectivep]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;23243132]And half the stories you read on that shit sounds far fetched as hell and pulled out of someones ass. Just because people make connections between things doesnt mean they have anything to do with eachother.[/QUOTE]

You're right, I actually say that more or less myself at the end, but the thigns I post above never claim them to be anything but unidentified flying objects- they never say alien. One says someone believed it to be 'otherworldy', and I myself an skeptical of them being anything ET related, but you're missing my point.

My point is that I reference the UFO phenomena and not UFOs- that is, the not totally unexplained aerial phenomena, and not unidentified flying objects in general as you were suggesting.

[eemmzz]

When I was on holiday when I was a teenager I saw an object in the sky I couldn't identify. Not saying it was an alien but it was certainly bizarre considering I was in a camp site in the middle of France. It was the middle of the afternoon and a white, flat looking spherical object went across the sky in a straight line. Most have been swamp gas right? :v:

[Carbisari]

[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/comstar3.png[/img]

[detectivep]

[QUOTE=Levithan;23243253][img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/comstar3.png[/img][/QUOTE]

I have a Call of Duty avatar, do you have a point?

[Hunterbrute]

Oh my god guys NASA is working with the aliens in an evil conspiracy to take over the Earth and harvest us for resources and make us all into slaves and this image is like the proof because I read about it on some internet forums from a guy who has a friend whose uncle works for washington where one of the senators has this inside man who works for the cia and gets information from the fbi about this guy working on flying saucers from nasa and this is like a real photo

[img]http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/files/2007/nasa_ufo1.jpg[/img]

[Elspin]

I came into this thread expecting something different than the usual "oh god government conspiracies" and was sorely disappointed.

[Swilly]

UFO suffers from the same syndrome that socialism does. People do not know the actual meaning or its been connected with something due to major events.

UFOs are real, because they're just unidentified flying objects.

It could be very well be a prototype frisbee being tested...Who the hell knows?

[Piggah]

Meh, I'm more worried about the inevitable Zombie Apocalypse.

[detectivep]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;23243338]Oh my god guys NASA is working with the aliens in an evil conspiracy to take over the Earth and harvest us for resources and make us all into slaves and this image is like the proof because I read about it on some internet forums from a guy who has a friend whose uncle works for washington where one of the senators has this inside man who works for the cia and gets information from the fbi about this guy working on flying saucers from nasa and this is like a real photo

[img]http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/files/2007/nasa_ufo1.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

You didn't read the OP.

[quote]I came into this thread expecting something different than the usual "oh god government conspiracies" and was sorely disappointed.[/quote]

Can you point out where I say I believe in conspiracies? Or anything of the sort? Cause I actually say I DON'T believe in conspiracies.

[wonkadonk]

[QUOTE=Detective P;23242991]Thousands of police, military, and government personnel have claimed sightings of UFOs. There you go. These are some of the most reliable and trustworthy individuals of our society.[/QUOTE]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfAzaDyae-k[/media]

watch this video

he mentions something about the part i quoted and you need to listen to it

PLUS STOP SAYING "I BELIEVE IN UFOS" and stuff

ufo == "unidentified flying object"

unidentified DOES NOT MEAN IT IS ALIEN

say alien spacecraft sightings or something

[Hunterbrute]

[QUOTE=Detective P;23243413]You didn't read the OP.

Can you point out where I say I believe in conspiracies? Or anything of the sort? Cause I actually say I DON'T believe in conspiracies.[/QUOTE]

No need to read it, I read the first couple paragraphs and pretty much figured you would do what all people who have posted this topic do.

Talk about conspiracies, talk about aliens, talk about military, talk about science related nonsense that doesnt work.

All these threads end up the same with a bunch of dumb arguments over shit no one knows, no sense speculating about it.

[detectivep]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;23243453]No need to read it, I read the first couple paragraphs and pretty much figured you would do what all people who have posted this topic do.

talk about conspiracies, talk about aliens, talk about military, talk about science related nonsense that doesnt work. All these threads end up the same with a bunch of dumb arguments over shit no one knows, no sense speculating about it.[/QUOTE]

No, infact I say I don't believe in conspiracies, I don't believe in aliens and state how it's just as likely that UFOs are due to "flying assworms", and never talk about anything scientific other than lab results stated in Wikipedia articles and books I've quoted.

The fact of the matter is that I agree with your statements mostly so far, but you didn't read shit so you don't fucking know that.

Honestly, I don't give a shit about if you believe or not, I give a shit that people fucking rip on all of us because of the beliefs of alot of us- It's not fucking right to assume that because I believe in UFOs that my whole OP is full of the same old shit- yes, some of it is, the stuff that is in some of my quotes but nothing except the Kecksburg and Landrum stuff that really says 'lol cover up' and alot that says that the military and government don't know jack shit like everyone else.

So don't go about fucking generalizing and accusing when I fucking agree with you to a point in the first place and haven't even heard what I've fucking said, or what I've brought to the table.

[quote]

watch this video

he mentions something about the part i quoted and you need to listen to it

PLUS STOP SAYING "I BELIEVE IN UFOS" and stuff

ufo == "unidentified flying object"

unidentified DOES NOT MEAN IT IS ALIEN

say alien spacecraft sightings or something[/quote]

I've seen the video.

And like I've said...when I say UFO, I mean the COMMONLY ACCEPTED MEANING in reference to the DEFINED UFO Phenomena. I stated that in the beginning, I stated that before. By saying I believe in UFOs, I am saying I believe that the UFO phenomena is real, not imaginary. When someone says they don't believe in UFOs, it means they do not believe that there is a real UFO phenomena. The fact that people do not know this or assume otherwise is kind of being ignorant to a common cultural phenomena and common cultural speech in the western world.

And I can't say alien spacecraft sightings, because, as I've explained in the OP, because we do not know the cause of the phenomena I can not call it anything else beside Unidentified Flying Objects. It could be aliens, it could be the cookie monster farting, we don't fucking know and that's the point of calling it all the UFO phenomena.

[wonkadonk]

[QUOTE=Detective P;23243577]No, infact I say I don't believe in conspiracies, I don't believe in aliens and state how it's just as likely that UFOs are due to "flying assworms", and never talk about anything scientific other than lab results stated in Wikipedia articles and books I've quoted.

The fact of the matter is that I agree with your statements mostly so far, but you didn't read shit so you don't fucking know that.

Honestly, I don't give a shit about if you believe or not,
I give a shit that people fucking rip on all of us because of the beliefs of alot of us- It's not fucking right to assume that because I believe in UFOs that my whole OP is full of the same old shit- yes, some of it is, the stuff that is in some of my quotes but nothing except the Kecksburg and Landrum stuff that really says 'lol cover up' and alot that says that the military and government don't know jack shit like everyone else.

So don't go about fucking generalizing and accusing when I fucking agree with you to a point in the first place and haven't even heard what I've fucking said, or what I've brought to the table.[/QUOTE]

are you watching the video i posted

[Astanovka]

Well if you go about this logically, taking into account how comprehensibly large the universe is, then I think any reasonable person could safely assume that there are other life forms out there.
We didn't need a short novel for this, OP.

Oh an as some stated, a UFO is simply an unidentified flying object. I could throw a rock and the kid next door might think it's a UFO. Also it wouldn't be very smart for the government to hold onto any alien spacecraft. Especially keeping it secretive.

[Deac]

I believe they exist as well. There have been multiple strange occurrences that have not been disproven, and many sightings with film evidence. Many I'm sure were doctored or edited, but I bet some are very real.

[editline]11:22PM[/editline]

Besides, we're just a speck of dirt compared to the rest of the universe, theres bound to be more life out there, possibly millions of years more advanced, and are curious about other worlds as well.

[Hunterbrute]

[QUOTE=Detective P;23243577]stuff about stuff[/QUOTE]

Ok then I will contribute to your thread with a photo I took on my cellphone while I was out driving back in June.

[img]http://www.zilefile.com/files/11852_okamj/derpingufo.jpg[/img]

Not a balloon, not a plane, not a helicopter, changed directions and shape and speed, no idea what it was but it was neat.

[wonkadonk]

[QUOTE=Detective P;23242991][b]But DetectiveP, they cannot get here bla bla speed of light bla bla[/b]

[url]http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=19111763&postcount=60[/url]

My response to that.[/QUOTE]

by the way you lost credibility when you said this

[QUOTE=Detective P;19111763]because we've already moved particles faster than the speed of goddam light[/QUOTE]

so stop with this stupid delusional persecution complex of yours and learn what you're talking about if you wish to have people take you seriously

[Athena]

Why are ufo photos always taken by the most piece-of-shit shakycam

[Astanovka]

A question that's been bothering me is if they are visiting our planet like you insist, why do they not make contact or abduct anyone?

[ceaajagd]

Hmmm in terms of aliens i don't believe that they, being sentient extra terrestrials have ever visited earth how ever there is an overwhelming chance that they exist because space is infinite so there is a never ending amount of possible planets that harbor life, however there is always the chance that earth is the only one with sentient life so the percent chance would be 99.9-repeating percent chance of sentient aliens

also your avatar is a star, hammer, and sickle, and your from Michigan but you use the word bloody, a very British term? not saying anything, its just interesting

[detectivep]

[QUOTE=Heroms;23243697]A question that's been bothering me is if they are visiting our planet like you insist, why do they not make contact or abduct anyone?[/QUOTE]

I didn't insist that.

[stone555]

Here OP:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOcfCkUBsdc[/media]

Watch. Listen. Learn.

[Deac]

[QUOTE=Hunterbrute;23243667]Ok then I will contribute to your thread with a photo I took on my cellphone while I was out driving back in June.

[img_thumb]http://www.zilefile.com/files/11852_okamj/derpingufo.jpg[/img_thumb]

Not a balloon, not a plane, not a helicopter, changed directions and shape and speed, no idea what it was but it was neat.[/QUOTE]

Ah yes, the elusive weather balloon!