Rand Paul May Sue Over NSA Program - Polidicks

[QUOTE]WASHINGTON—A Republican senator said Sunday that he plans to assemble a class action lawsuit against the federal government over a national security program that collects phone call data, saying he hopes the matter winds up before the Supreme Court. Sen. Rand Paul (R., Ky.), who is considering a run for the White House in 2016, said on “Fox News Sunday” that he is considering asking major U.S. telecommunications firms to ask their customers to join a lawsuit. “If we get a million people in a class-action suit, things might change,” Mr. Paul said. Mr. Paul didn’t elaborate on the plan, and a spokeswoman for the senator wasn’t immediately available to comment. The program has become a focus of public attention since a court order was leaked to The Guardian newspaper last week that authorized the National Security Agency to collect data of phone calls made by customers of Verizon Communications Inc. Many lawmakers and President Barack Obama have defended the program as important to efforts to find and track terrorists, while others have said the national-security gains don’t justify the imposition on privacy.[/QUOTE] [url]http://stream.wsj.com/story/campaign-2012-continuous-coverage/SS-2-9156/SS-2-249312/[/url]

I think it's pretty interesting that it's entirely possible to sue an entire national government.

First thing the Pauls have done that's in any way useful.

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;40962637]First thing the Pauls have done that's in any way useful.[/QUOTE] Well they have voted against stripping away American liberties and Rand Paul did do that Fillabuster that brought alot of attention towards the governments insanity.

on what grounds is he even going to sue lol for anyone who is revving up the paul family praise train as a result of this news keep in mind rand paul is the guy that wants to get rid of the civil rights act of 1964 because protecting minorities from outright discrimination violates your rights

When has suing the US government worked? I know that many people have tried, but they usually lose badly.

Lets go Class-Action on this one.

I read somewhere that you couldn't technically sue for this because it's considered a national secret or some loophole bullshit.

[QUOTE=Dacheet;40962916]I read somewhere that you couldn't technically sue for this because it's considered a national secret or some loophole bullshit.[/QUOTE] He can still file suit and petition it up to the supreme court. The goal here is to keep it from getting that far, because if it does then the supreme court HAS to rule it unconstitutional. The government makes laws for us to follow, the constitution is the law the government must follow. The government cannot make laws that are contrary to the laws they must abide by. If this reaches the supreme court, ALOT of legislation is going to be thrown out and ALOT of people in the government will be ruined. TL;DR The government's self made legal loophole IS NOT LEGAL. The government cannot legislate itself out of constitutional responsibility.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;40963082]He can still file suit and petition it up to the supreme court. The goal here is to keep it from getting that far, because if it does then the supreme court HAS to rule it unconstitutional. The government makes laws for us to follow, the constitution is the law the government must follow. The government cannot make laws that are contrary to the laws they must abide by. If this reaches the supreme court, ALOT of legislation is going to be thrown out and ALOT of people in the government will be ruined. TL;DR The government's self made legal loophole IS NOT LEGAL. The government cannot legislate itself out of constitutional responsibility.[/QUOTE] how exactly is the government violating its own laws / the constitution?

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40963089]how exactly is the government violating its own laws / the constitution?[/QUOTE] Probably something about spying on billions of people through literally every means capible of doing so.

[QUOTE=Worldwaker;40963183]Probably something about spying on billions of people through literally every means capible of doing so.[/QUOTE] emotionally charged language describing access of social media and phone records from private corporations isn't a law

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40963271]emotionally charged language describing access of social media and phone records from private corporations isn't a law[/QUOTE] No, but the whole Fourth Amendment and you have something to talk about~ Oh, and you misunderstand my point. Talking about what the government is/may be doing with surveillance, not what they're saying.

[QUOTE=Worldwaker;40963638]No, but the whole Fourth Amendment and you have something to talk about~[/QUOTE] from what i've read about PRISM so far it is the NSA working in cooperation with private corporations to access their data when necessary. i've not seen any evidence that any laws are being broken.

[QUOTE=Medevilae;40962695]His filibuster was a joke as well He's not anywhere near as genuine as his pop though[/QUOTE] I believe that his Fillibuster was genuine but I believe he only cares about American interests. I believe that Ron Paul valued the lives of foreigners as well as Americans which is why he was opposed to war and drone strikes. Rand Paul is against drone strikes on Americans but is completely fine with Drone strikes on foreigners.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;40962845]When has suing the US government worked? I know that many people have tried, but they usually lose badly.[/QUOTE] Many times, for example: Collins V United States (Corrected seperation pay for soldiers discharged under DADT) The problem is getting the government to say, pay out for damages. The government can admit fault oftentimes, but more rarely does it physically pay for it. Oftentimes courts will stipulate changes in government procedure to ensure the problem doesn't happen again, or to make it harder (and legally not negligent) for it to happen again. [editline]9th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SaltyWaters;40963082]He can still file suit and petition it up to the supreme court. The goal here is to keep it from getting that far, because if it does then the supreme court HAS to rule it unconstitutional. The government makes laws for us to follow, the constitution is the law the government must follow. The government cannot make laws that are contrary to the laws they must abide by. If this reaches the supreme court, ALOT of legislation is going to be thrown out and ALOT of people in the government will be ruined. TL;DR The government's self made legal loophole IS NOT LEGAL. The government cannot legislate itself out of constitutional responsibility.[/QUOTE] Yo you should tell that to a supreme court that says you're wrong. Nothing in the world can stop that except force of arms, and well, the US govt has a monopoly on that.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40963686]from what i've read about PRISM so far it is the NSA working in cooperation with private corporations to access their data when necessary. i've not seen any evidence that any laws are being broken.[/QUOTE] That's because there are no laws being broken. People are eating this sensationalized shit up like a bunch of fucking idiots.

I don't care about his motives, someone needs to fucking [I]do something[/I] [editline]9th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40963856]That's because there are no laws being broken. People are eating this sensationalized shit up like a bunch of fucking idiots.[/QUOTE] You apologists can fuck off, I don't care if the US government isn't technically breaking some US law (you don't know that), this shit is affecting people on a global scale and it needs to stop

[QUOTE=demoguy08;40963879] You apologists can fuck off, I don't care if the US government isn't technically breaking some US law (you don't know that), this shit is affecting people on a global scale and it needs to stop[/QUOTE] How did it affect you before this week?

[QUOTE=demoguy08;40963879]You apologists can fuck off, I don't care if the US government isn't technically breaking some US law (you don't know that), this shit is affecting people on a global scale and it needs to stop[/QUOTE] not trying to be an apologist just saying that so far nothing really groundbreaking has been revealed. essentially the leaking of the PRISM program is just a confirmation of what everyone has assumed to be taking place ever since the emergence of social media. obviously its a moronic and invasive program but in the end it really doesn't affect the average american and it doesn't even show an overreach in government power, just the NSA making a deal with popular social media / search engine companies to withdraw some data when they want it.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40963686]from what i've read about PRISM so far it is the NSA working in cooperation with private corporations to access their data when necessary. i've not seen any evidence that any laws are being broken.[/QUOTE] PRISM, and the systems associated with it, presume guilt before any crimes are committed. It is not the government's prerogative to seek evidence against someone who has done nothing wrong. On a side note, the NSA along with all Intelligence Organizations are trained liars. They have turned deception into a science and disinformation into a power point slide show. I can't fault you for believing the information they have released, but it is good to keep in mind that they will lie without hesitation.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;40963957]PRISM, and the systems associated with it, presume guilt before any crimes are committed. It is not the government's prerogative to seek evidence against someone who has done nothing wrong. On a side note, the NSA along with all Intelligence Organizations are trained liars. They have turned deception into a science and disinformation into a power point slide show. I can't fault you for believing the information they have released, but it is good to keep in mind that they will lie without hesitation.[/QUOTE] the powerpoint wasn't released, it was leaked, no? which is the reason the govt has been on a manhunt for the guy that leaked it since it took place, and the reason the american media and politicians are losing their minds, because this was leaked

[QUOTE=Mr Kodiak;40962589][url]http://stream.wsj.com/story/campaign-2012-continuous-coverage/SS-2-9156/SS-2-249312/[/url][/QUOTE] I would post a doom paul if it was allowed but you just have to image it.

[QUOTE=scout1;40963925]How did it affect you before this week?[/QUOTE] Is the concept of privacy [I]really[/I] that difficult to comprehend? [editline]10th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;40963955]not trying to be an apologist just saying that so far nothing really groundbreaking has been revealed. essentially the leaking of the PRISM program is just a confirmation of what everyone has assumed to be taking place ever since the emergence of social media. obviously its a moronic and invasive program but in the end it really doesn't affect the average american and it doesn't even show an overreach in government power, just the NSA making a deal with popular social media / search engine companies to withdraw some data when they want it.[/QUOTE] Your lack of perspective is what disturbes me This isn't just a domestic issue, it's a global issue because much of internet traffic flows though the US do you have absolutely no concern for people outside your borders?

[QUOTE=demoguy08;40964667]Is the concept of privacy [I]really[/I] that difficult to comprehend [/QUOTE] "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried!!!one!11!!!!"

But doesn't the government need money in order to pay out in lawsuits?

I also like the argument that because this spy program might technically not break any US laws or the holy Consitution according to some judge(s) appointed by the very government that is committing the acts there can be no wrongdoing, as if the word of the law cannot be scrutinized has history taught you nothing? if the law allows for abhorrent breaches of privacy then it obviously needs to be changed

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40963686]from what i've read about PRISM so far it is the NSA working in cooperation with private corporations to access their data when necessary. i've not seen any evidence that any laws are being broken.[/QUOTE] PRISM isn't illegal, the related cable intercept system is.

I can't tell if people are actually arguing in favor of global surveillance or if they're just in favor of it because a republican senator is against it.

[QUOTE=Medevilae;40962664]He has ulterior (political) motivation for doing it[/QUOTE] Yes, and it doesn't change the fact that we need this lawsuit. I personally do not give a shit why he's filing it as long as its successful.