Even after the approval Chelsea Manning is still being refused gender treatment - Polidicks

[QUOTE=NBC]A year after requesting gender-reassignment treatment, convicted national-security leaker Chelsea Manning says the military has given her nothing but "lip service." In an exclusive statement to NBC News. [B]Last month, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel approved an Army recommendation to begin the early stages of gender reassignment, including counseling and approval to dress as a woman, officials said. But Manning's lawyer, David Coombs, said in a statement that the military has failed to carry out the recommendation and that he is prepared to sue.[/b] "The military's failure to comply with the treatment recommendations and protocols for Chelsea's diagnosed gender dysmorphia violates her well-established constitutional right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment," Coombs wrote.[/Quote] [url]http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/chelsea-manning-says-military-still-denying-gender-treatment-n185981[/url] Such a shame to have a glimmer of hope and then have it stripped away from you.

The guy leaked classified information and is being held on account of it. I don't get why "I need to be a woman now, even though I'm 26 years old" suddenly becomes cruel and unusual punishment.

[QUOTE=Smoot;45778025]The guy leaked classified information and is being held on account of it. I don't get why "I need to be a woman now, even though I'm 26 years old" suddenly becomes cruel and unusual punishment.[/QUOTE] First off, she's a woman not a guy. Secondly, this is like denying someone with clinically diagnosed depression their anti-depressants. [Editline]shdhu[/editline] You guys can rate me dumb all you want but its true. Maybe read a book for once in your lives, eh? You're the dumb ones here.

[QUOTE=Smoot;45778025]The guy leaked classified information and is being held on account of it. I don't get why "I need to be a woman now, even though I'm 26 years old" suddenly becomes cruel and unusual punishment.[/QUOTE] Because withholding treatment for a condition that drives half of those afflicted to attempt suicide isn't cruel or unusual, when the afflicted is a criminal.

[QUOTE=Smoot;45778025]The guy leaked classified information and is being held on account of it. I don't get why "I need to be a woman now, even though I'm 26 years old" suddenly becomes cruel and unusual punishment.[/QUOTE] I forgot being a criminal strips you of your right to live a healthy and dignified life.

You may not agree with the person's beliefs or needs, but said person was promised treatment by Army officials. This is no way to act.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;45778067]First off, she's a woman not a guy. Secondly, this is like denying someone with clinically diagnosed depression their anti-depressants. [Editline]shdhu[/editline] You guys can rate me dumb all you want but its true. Maybe read a book for once in your lives, eh? You're the dumb ones here.[/QUOTE] I really like your edited line, it's like you took all chance of giving yourself respect and threw it out of the window

[QUOTE=kenji;45778352]I really like your edited line, it's like you took all chance of giving yourself respect and threw it out of the window[/QUOTE] No, the people who threw any chance of respect are those that don't recognize transgender rights and don't realize that criminals are still humans. He/She is completely right.

[i]What?! Someone not conforming to my views of gender?! ARRRGGHH This is what a she is and this is what a he is!! Got that?![/i] This applies to both the transphobic and the anti-transphobic.

It astounds me how some people have the audacity to assert that she deserves this. Yes, she's a criminal, but that doesn't warrant refusing her medical treatment. That is not justice; that is pointless psychological torture. If this person was suffering from depression or some other psychological disorder, and they were being refused treatment, the reaction here would be [b]very[/b] different. What makes some people so upset about gender dysphoria in particular?

[QUOTE=kenji;45778352]I really like your edited line, it's like you took all chance of giving yourself respect and threw it out of the window[/QUOTE] Well how else are ignorant people going to learn if you let them just spew bullshit out of their mouths and pass it off as fact? Not saying people have to agree with it but at least know what you're talking about first or else shut the fuck up.

[QUOTE=Smoot;45778025]The guy leaked classified information and is being held on account of it. I don't get why "I need to be a woman now, even though I'm 26 years old" suddenly becomes cruel and unusual punishment.[/QUOTE] So if you had cockrot and anal hemorrhoids, then committed a crime you should also be refused medical treatment? I mean you did break the law after all.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;45778067]First off, she's a woman not a guy. [/QUOTE] I fully support whatever trans people want to do and what not but this whole "shes a she" thing is a bit ridiculous. He's still biologicaly and physically 100% a dude right now. Calling him a guy isn't some horrible anti trans comment.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45778552]I fully support whatever trans people want to do and what not but this whole "shes a she" thing is a bit ridiculous. He's still biologicaly and physically 100% a dude right now. Calling him a guy isn't some horrible anti trans comment.[/QUOTE] Yes, but it's shitty to deny someone being called what they want to be called.

[QUOTE=Zoran;45778572]Yes, but it's shitty to deny someone being called what they want to be called.[/QUOTE] Yea, if your talking to them. I don't really see the big deal when you call someone with a dick a dude on an internet forum, specifically when you don't mean any disrespect.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45778587]Yea, if your talking to them. I don't really see the big deal when you call someone with a dick a dude on an internet forum, specifically when you don't mean any disrespect.[/QUOTE] I suppose. I just prefer to take what I see as the high ground and refer to them as female as they wish to be regardless.

[QUOTE=Zoran;45778596]I suppose. I just prefer to take what I see as the high ground and refer to them as female as they wish to be regardless.[/QUOTE] I suppose, I just say eh

this is why I think he/his/him should be unisex pronouns

[QUOTE=Crash155;45778618]this is why I think he/his/him should be unisex pronouns[/QUOTE] can we still call cis/cis girls "she"?

[QUOTE=Crash155;45778618]this is why I think he/his/him should be unisex pronouns[/QUOTE] They are, technically. It's perfectly valid to call someone a he if you don't know their actual gender.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45778587]Yea, if your talking to them. I don't really see the big deal when you call someone with a dick a dude on an internet forum, specifically when you don't mean any disrespect.[/QUOTE] What, does your brain fry up if you have to identify someone by who they want to be? I never understood why people have such a problem in the first place unless you're being a bigot.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45778552]Calling him a guy isn't some horrible anti trans comment.[/QUOTE] Actually yes it fucking is, because I've only EVER seen transgender people be misgendered on purpose. One's gender identity is a mental construct that's not directly effected by what [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome]chromosomes[/url] one has, since flesh doesn't have a gender itself; we as a society gender it. Another fun thing I love to point out is that people almost NEVER willingly misgender pets, when they're corrected by their owners. They don't go "NO, I'm going to keep calling Rex a 'SHE' because -insert arbitrary reason here-." they just correct themselves without whining about it like 'allies' like you.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;45778647]What, does your brain fry up if you have to identify someone by who they want to be? I never understood why people have such a problem in the first place unless you're being a bigot.[/QUOTE] See, this is what annoys me so much. All I said was that I don't think calling someone who is biologically and physically a gender that gender name as long as its not meant to be disrespectful. No, my brain doesn't fry, I'm not a bigot, people should be allowed to hold different views on gender identification when they are respectful. Grow up

[QUOTE=Levithan;45778700]One's gender identity is a mental construct that's not directly effected by what [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome]chromosomes[/url] one has, since flesh doesn't have a gender itself; we as a society gender it.[/QUOTE] eehhh I think XX individuals will always be more likely to fit into the female gender, and XY male

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45778587]Yea, if your talking to them. I don't really see the big deal when you call someone with a dick a dude on an internet forum, specifically when you don't mean any disrespect.[/QUOTE] If you don't mean any disrespect then respect them by [i]calling them by what they want to be called[/i]. For us, it's like every day every person you come across refers to you by "Butthole", and the day you get fed up with it and ask "Hey, could you refer to me as ma'm instead of Butthole? Thanks." but then you find that there's a sizable portion of the population that have a stick stuck up their rectum that won't let go of calling you "Butthole" even when they "Don't mean any disrespect!!!" It takes SOOO little effort to just type out one extra letter when going she/her to be respectful, it's easier than typing please or thank you. But nah, this is the internet; where all forms of civility or kindness are thrown into the abyss to never be seen again.

[QUOTE=Levithan;45778700]Actually yes it fucking is, because I've only EVER seen transgender people be misgendered on purpose. One's gender identity is a mental construct that's not directly effected by what [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome]chromosomes[/url] one has, since flesh doesn't have a gender itself; we as a society gender it. Another fun thing I love to point out is that people almost NEVER willingly misgender pets, when they're corrected by their owners. They don't go "NO, I'm going to keep calling Rex a 'SHE' because -insert arbitrary reason here-." they just correct themselves without whining about it like 'allies' like you.[/QUOTE] Most people associate "him" or "her" with the persons physical sex, not their identified gender. I really don't see the harm in that. I'm not refusing to call anyone what they believe themselves to be, it would be rude and would show some sort of prejudice. I'm saying every thread on here some one calls someone the wrong pronoun and everyone loses their mind.

What type of procedure did they neglect and how long do they each take? The article mentioned that she claimed that they've partially fulfilled it, but medical procedures can take long. Serious medical issues aren't solved by putting on a bandaid.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45778552]I fully support whatever trans people want to do and what not but this whole "shes a she" thing is a bit ridiculous. He's still biologicaly and physically 100% a dude right now. Calling him a guy isn't some horrible anti trans comment.[/QUOTE] Would you call a girl a guy just because she looked like one? No? Then don't call trans people the wrong gender because they don't look "right." Also, the "physical" and "biological" argument mean shit. Let me explain. Many people find transgenderism stupid because they believe it to be some want rather than a necessity. This simply isn't true. Transgenderism is a [b]physiological birth defect.[/b] We just don't wake up one morning saying, "Hm, I'm bored of being dude. I want to be a girl now to try something new." Don't believe me? Well take a look at this article that [i]proves[/i] [url=http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html#.U_jc5PldWWb]the brains of transgender individuals resemble the brains of the gender they identify as.[/url] This is in terms of both the structure of the brain and the grey matter count. There's no definitive evidence as to how the defect occurs since it's next to impossible to know whether a fetus will be transgender. The idea floating around at the moment is there's a hormonal issue during development. As you may be aware, we all start as females in the womb. When we are destined to become male a fetus is fed two separate doses of testosterone. One dose goes to the brain, and the other goes to the body. When the body receives the dose but the brain doesn't, a male fetus will grow to have a male body but continue developing a female brain. That's a male to female person like Chelsea Manning. It's vice versa for female to male. They get the dose to the brain causing a male-brain development but a female-body development. But of course no one bothers to research this because they instead like to hide behind their own ignorance and pass it off as fact. So there's tons of misconceptions floating around such as your putrid "biological" argument. It doesn't matter what the body is. The brain and body are wired incorrectly and the brain has more control of a person's body than the body does. The brain is in the wrong body and it needs to be corrected. The brain, in both scenarios, is being fed the wrong hormones. It's like trying to run diesel in an engine designed for petrol. It's in fact so crippling that [url=http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf]over 40% of transgender individuals attempt suicide.[/url] So when people like you use the biologically male/female argument you're essentially saying they aren't who they are. [editline]asdasd[/editline] This is also why I compared it to denying someone anti-depressants. The crippling depression that comes from transgenderism and clinical depression are beyond the person's control. There is some abnormal imbalance that makes it so crippling. They're both medical conditions that [b][i]require[/i][/b] medication to fix. Both can lead to suicide if left ignored. [editline]asda;sd[/editline] Yes, I agree. It is funny proving people wrong.

us transfolk are coming out in force in this thread grrr

[QUOTE=Levithan;45778754]If you don't mean any disrespect then respect them by [i]calling them by what they want to be called[/i]. For us, it's like every day every person you come across refers to you by "Butthole", and the day you get fed up with it and ask "Hey, could you refer to me as ma'm instead of Butthole? Thanks." but then you find that there's a sizable portion of the population that have a stick stuck up their rectum that won't let go of calling you "Butthole" even when they "Don't mean any disrespect!!!" It takes SOOO little effort to just type out one extra letter when going she/her to be respectful, it's easier than typing please or thank you. But nah, this is the internet; where all forms of civility or kindness are thrown into the abyss to never be seen again.[/QUOTE] I hate to say this, but I really feel like every time a trans rights activist uses an analogy to convey to cis people what it feels like to be misgendered, it just totally falls short in shock value. I really do understand that it's hurtful to you, it's just something that is very difficult to explain to straight/cis/cis people.