Big debts and broken dreams: [Australian] students without degrees branded as 'failures' - Polidicks

[quote=Sydney Morning Herald]Allowing universities to enrol as many students as they want has harmed the economy, diminished the value of higher education, and created the false view that anyone without a degree is a "failure", according the nation's most prestigious universities. In a provocative speech to business and university leaders, Vicki Thomson, executive director of the Group of Eight (Go8) universities, will argue the surge of enrolments over recent years has left too many graduates with "broken dreams and a large student debt". She also blasts employers for demanding university qualifications for jobs that don't need them and expecting universities to operate as if they were factories churning out widgets. "Why are we all so reticent about stating the obvious - that university isn't for everyone," Ms Thomson will tell the Graduate Employability and Industry Partnerships Forum in Sydney on Monday.[/quote] [quote]Fairfax Media revealed earlier this year that [b]students with ATARs as low as 30 were were being admitted to courses with cut-offs of 75[/b], leading to accusations students are being used as "cash cows".[/quote] Read more at [url]http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/big-debts-and-broken-dreams-students-without-degrees-branded-as-failures-20160730-gqhh2w.html[/url] [editline]1st August 2016[/editline] Roughly 40% of Australians aged 25-34 have a university degree. It's worth noting that we don't have what American would know as 'colleges' here in Australia.

[QUOTE=Eonart;50809822]I might be a "failure" in this case but at least I don't have student debt :v:[/QUOTE] The student debt really doesn't worry me. I'll graduate with at least $40,000 of it, but because of how the re-payments work (you only pay it back once you're earning at least ~$50,000 per annum), it won't bother me at all.

[QUOTE=sb27;50809830]The student debt really doesn't worry me. I'll graduate with at least $40,000 of it, but because of how the re-payments work (you only pay it back once you're earning at least ~$50,000 per annum), it won't bother me at all.[/QUOTE] Once you're earning ~50k a year, you usually have other loans or repayments by that point. Car, house etc. So it definitely does get noticeable. It is really shit how the uni's aren't overly honest about the drop out rates to students [I]before[/I] they enrole, or how competitive the industry they're studying for really is.

[QUOTE=sb27;50809830]The student debt really doesn't worry me. I'll graduate with at least $40,000 of it, but because of how the re-payments work (you only pay it back once you're earning at least ~$50,000 per annum), it won't bother me at all.[/QUOTE] What's the interest on student loans in Aus? I too would graduate with 40k, but with a compounding interest each year of between 0.01% and like 0.8% or so. Also I have 35 years to pay it back, starting 2 years after graduation. So in terms of getting a loan, it's probably the best loan you can ever take.

[QUOTE=mr apple;50809880]Once you're earning ~50k a year, you usually have other loans or repayments by that point. Car, house etc. So it definitely does get noticeable. It is really shit how the uni's aren't overly honest about the drop out rates to students [I]before[/I] they enrole, or how competitive the industry they're studying for really is.[/QUOTE] do you guys just have like a oversaturation problem? over here in the states, majority of the competitive industry problem can be just solved moving elsewhere since we're gigantic.

[QUOTE=Asgard;50809886]What's the interest on student loans in Aus? I too would graduate with 40k, but with a compounding interest each year of between 0.01% and like 0.8% or so. Also I have 35 years to pay it back, starting 2 years after graduation. So in terms of getting a loan, it's probably the best loan you can ever take.[/QUOTE] Precisely 0% However, the value of the loan is adjusted every year to keep up with the consumer price index. So really it will be somewhere between 2-3%, depending on the year. [editline]1st August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=mr apple;50809880]Once you're earning ~50k a year, you usually have other loans or repayments by that point. Car, house etc. So it definitely does get noticeable. It is really shit how the uni's aren't overly honest about the drop out rates to students [I]before[/I] they enrole, or how competitive the industry they're studying for really is.[/QUOTE] The repayments start at only 5% of your income, so $2,500 per year or $48 per week for someone on a $50,000 salary isn't that bad.

I sometimes wonder what went wrong in some countries where people have to get into deep debts to pay for university. Computer engineering here is around 1500€ per year iirc, that is if you don't fail any class.

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;50809899]do you guys just have like a oversaturation problem? over here in the states, majority of the competitive industry problem can be just solved moving elsewhere since we're gigantic.[/QUOTE] There is certainly an oversaturation problem and concern that it will de-value university degrees, to the extent that a Bachelor degree will simply become 'Year 13 to Year 15'. I'm applying for trainee accounting jobs and indeed I have an interview tomorrow, but it's very hard to stand out from the crowd, especially as 50 people on average apply for those trainee jobs in my area. I'm thankful I did well enough in high school to be accepted for a double degree, which helps with that somewhat.

[QUOTE=sb27;50809924]There is certainly an oversaturation problem and concern that it will de-value university degrees, to the extent that a Bachelor degree will simply become 'Year 13 to Year 15'[/QUOTE] I'm about to finish a Bachelor of IT and I honestly get that feeling a lot :v: Everyone's told me "Degrees are just good for getting your foot in HR's door" because they give you fuck all in terms of practical knowledge / experience, just cramming theory and maybe a tiny bit of practice for 6 months before you move onto a different set of subjects

The debt is interest free and doesn't have to be paid back untill you're eatning $65k a year. I don't get why people complain about it.

Literally the only reason I'm doing University is because it's almost a requirement for employment due to how many people have degrees. You can still get by without one but most (well paying) jobs have 'university educated' as a requirement.

[QUOTE=kaze4159;50809976]I'm about to finish a Bachelor of IT and I honestly get that feeling a lot :v: Everyone's told me "Degrees are just good for getting your foot in HR's door" because they give you fuck all in terms of practical knowledge / experience[/QUOTE] It is actually speculated that many employers require candidates to have university degrees so as to filter down the field of candidates, even for jobs where the degree is not particularly relevant. And you can kind of understand that, because if you have dozens of people applying for a single job, there aren't really any other metrics for cutting that list down to a size where the HR manager can fully inspect each individual CV. One question I have been asked in interviews is something along the lines of 'what is your opinion on the statement that a degree doesn't prepare you for the workforce' and I agree with that statement completely.

Yaaayyy, another society falling to the 'You need to go to college or you will never earn a living' fallacy. Congrats, Austrailia. [QUOTE=download;50809984]The debt is interest free and doesn't have to be paid back untill you're eatning $65k a year. I don't get why people complain about it.[/QUOTE] Conversely we get hounded for payments the day after getting the degree...

[QUOTE=TestECull;50810050]Yaaayyy, another society falling to the 'You need to go to college or you will never earn a living' fallacy. Congrats, Austrailia. Conversely we get hounded for payments the day after getting the degree...[/QUOTE] I don't think you're doomed if you don't go to university, but I think it's clear that low-level jobs will be increasingly outsourced or taken up by immigrants, which either means you're gonna be out of a job or accept a lower standard of living. This is of course generalized, some people without degrees start new great businesses - but let's not kid ourselves, most do not. First world countries need to specialize and educate their workforce, otherwise they will stagnate.

Personally I think if you're company is hiring based on someones ability to go to school and be the same as everyone else, you've got a shitty company.

[QUOTE=Asgard;50809886]What's the interest on student loans in Aus? I too would graduate with 40k, but with a compounding interest each year of between 0.01% and like 0.8% or so. Also I have 35 years to pay it back, starting 2 years after graduation. So in terms of getting a loan, it's probably the best loan you can ever take.[/QUOTE] No interest, just indexed annually. Which is a good system IMO. I'm paying mine back now :(

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;50810103]I don't think you're doomed if you don't go to university, but I think it's clear that low-level jobs will be increasingly outsourced or taken up by immigrants, which either means you're gonna be out of a job or accept a lower standard of living. This is of course generalized, some people without degrees start new great businesses - but let's not kid ourselves, most do not. First world countries need to specialize and educate their workforce, otherwise they will stagnate.[/QUOTE] You misunderstand. In a society where so many people have degrees employers start requiring degrees for jobs that dont need one.

[QUOTE=eirexe;50809922]I sometimes wonder what went wrong in some countries where people have to get into deep debts to pay for university. Computer engineering here is around 1500€ per year iirc, that is if you don't fail any class.[/QUOTE] Me too.. how can degree be worth 40k$+ is beyond me.. I mean, doesn't teachers teach class, which consists of 30+ students? (somewhere its even 200 per class)?

it always amazes me how politicians and people can look at these terrible statistics and not see how this will negatively impact their country and their own lives. it IS in a countrys best interest to make education affordable and it IS in its best interest to have young people taking part in the economy but globally policymakers and pundits wont do anything about it because the old wealth doesnt want to be disturbed