Is Your Car Being Tracked by a License-Plate Scanner? - Polidicks

Source: [url]http://ideas.time.com/2012/08/13/is-your-car-being-tracked-by-a-license-plate-scanner/?hpt=hp_t3[/url] [quote] If you drive through Maryland, the state may be using an automated reader to photograph your license plate — and storing your movements away for future use. Maryland is not alone. ACLU offices in 38 states are looking into how the government is using license-plate readers across the country — and what it is doing with the data. The ACLU is already calling the license-plate readers “the next big thing in government tracking.” There are some uses of automatic license-plate readers that most people would agree are relatively unobjectionable — looking for cars that fled crime scenes or have been stolen, for example. The real problem is that when the government stores that information, it is not trying to solve an ongoing crime — it is building a database. These databases can quickly fill up with all sorts of details about how people lead their lives. By piecing together the locations of a particular license plate over time, the government may be able to determine if someone goes to church, synagogue or mosque regularly; whether they go to meetings of a particular political group; whether they participate in protests; or even if they are having an affair. It’s hard to know how widespread the technology is, but to give one example, Los Angeles County alone is using hundreds of license-plate readers. According to LA Weekly, which got its numbers in part through public-records requests, Los Angeles police have recorded more than 160 million data points about the movements of millions of drivers. It would be troubling enough if the license-plate data stayed instate, but it doesn’t. Maryland, for example, shares its records with a “fusion center” — an antiterrorism office that is run jointly by federal, state and local governments. That means that the federal government can combine data from different states and track people’s movements across the entire country. The federal government is also using license-plate readers. The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, which has been trying to get permission to use the readers in Utah, stated publicly that it is already operating scanners along drug-trafficking corridors in Texas and California. The federal government is also making money available to states to acquire license-plate readers. The ACLU of Massachusetts has filed a federal Freedom of Information Act request to learn more about how the federal government is using and funding license-plate readers. But are scanners a violation of privacy? There used to be general agreement that activities like driving, which occur on public streets, are not private — and that people have no right to complain when their movements are being tracked. But the rise of highly invasive technology and databases is changing that. As one federal appeals court put it in an influential ruling involving the police planting GPS devices on people’s cars, these high-tech instruments allow the government to put together a “mosaic” of how people live their lives — a massive privacy violation. Bottom line: license-plate reading should not be done in secret. The public has a right to know what kind of monitoring the government is doing, and there should be a public discussion of the appropriate trade-offs between law enforcement and privacy rights. If the ACLU offices get the information they want about how the federal and state governments are using license-plate readers, that discussion can begin. [/quote] More shit news from where I live.

Yeah, the police knowing which stores you go to is soooo worrysome. I feel so violated that the government knows that I go to church omg this breeches my rights!!!!11 [sp](actually it doesn't because there is no right to privacy in a public area)[/sp]

The thing is... License plates are not your property. They are property of the state. Secondly.... These scanners do nothing remote to what these people claim. There is no difference in a scanner than me looking at your plate and typing it into the MDT. The only thing the scanner does is make this process a lot faster and looks for specifics to alert the officer (Stolen vehicle, person with warrant, expired DL, etc.)

[QUOTE=HkSniper;37233092]The thing is... License plates are not your property. They are property of the state. Secondly.... These scanners do nothing remote to what these people claim. There is no difference in a scanner than me looking at your plate and typing it into the MDT. The only thing the scanner does is make this process a lot faster and looks for specifics to alert the officer (Stolen vehicle, person with warrant, expired DL, etc.)[/QUOTE] I don't need the government knowing what I'm doing. It's out of principal.

Betteridge's Law of Headlines applies here

[QUOTE=faze;37233133]I don't need the government knowing what I'm doing. It's out of principal.[/QUOTE] The hell are you talking about. When a plate is ran it doesn't pop up with where you have been lately - it just runs you for warrants and other shit (as said above). It may log WHERE they ran the plate but its nothing big. If your really paranoid about it just take your plates off. Then the police will know where you are, always since they will pull you over everytime

Yeah this is something I would approve of If you had your car stolen this would come in handy real quick

[quote]Bottom line: license-plate reading should not be done in secret. The public has a right to know what kind of monitoring the government is doing, and there should be a public discussion of the appropriate trade-offs between law enforcement and privacy rights. If the ACLU offices get the information they want about how the federal and state governments are using license-plate readers, that discussion can begin.[/quote] You can actually request how many times your plate has been ran by the police. It'll be more then what you think. Also, its not an invasion of privacy. The plates are on the outside of your vehicle which is in a public place so there is no reasonable expectation of privacy anywhere.

[QUOTE=areolop;37233258]The hell are you talking about. When a plate is ran it doesn't pop up with where you have been lately - it just runs you for warrants and other shit (as said above). It may log WHERE they ran the plate but its nothing big. If your really paranoid about it just take your plates off. Then the police will know where you are, always since they will pull you over everytime[/QUOTE] No thanks, they can delete the data after a reasonable about of time( a few weeks at most ). There is no need to store this information.

We got such scanners around Stockholm. It's used to send tax bills to drivers entering or leaving the central parts of Stockholm. Looks like this: [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Automatic_tollstation_at_Lilla_Essingen_Stockholm.jpg/672px-Automatic_tollstation_at_Lilla_Essingen_Stockholm.jpg[/IMG] They're all over the world and have existed for years. Plate readers that is.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;37233300]Yeah this is something I would approve of If you had your car stolen this would come in handy real quick[/QUOTE] You guys seem to ignore the huge elephant in the room. It's alarming that every single person will get tracked wherever they go. Ofcourse the streets aren't private, but in this day and age, where the heck am I going to drive? Everything is owned by a private conglomerate or government entity; the roads, plazas, and highways. Not only do we have GPS units in our pockets that log wherever we go and whatever we talk about, we have to have our cars tracked too? For goodness sake why don't you let them lead your life to the very food you eat and the media you are exposed to? Oh wait

[QUOTE=sHiBaN;37233566]You guys seem to ignore the huge elephant in the room. It's alarming that every single person will get tracked wherever they go. Ofcourse the streets aren't private, but in this day and age, where the heck am I going to drive? Everything is owned by a private conglomerate or government entity; the roads, plazas, and highways. Not only do we have GPS units in our pockets that log wherever we go and whatever we talk about, we have to have our cars tracked too? For goodness sake why don't you let them lead your life to the very food you eat and the media you are exposed to? Oh wait[/QUOTE] It's alarming that people can't read. It only shows the last place you were scanned. You're not being tracked around constantly on a gps or something, jesus.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;37233637]It's alarming that people can't read. It only shows the last place you were scanned. You're not being tracked around constantly on a gps or something, jesus.[/QUOTE] [B]You[/B] didn't read All this data can be collected and over time, can be developed to portray an image of someone's life. It can be a painted like a GPS system, if plates are scanned enough. Your cellphone already is one

Here in the UK, the police use license plate scanners regularly and there are no issues at all with privacy or 'being tracked'. People really need to stop being so bloody paranoid.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;37233637]It's alarming that people can't read. It only shows the last place you were scanned. You're not being tracked around constantly on a gps or something, jesus.[/QUOTE] So what article did you read? I think you missed the point where the ACLU is filing a request to figure out what happens to that data when it's collected(you know, the article).

[quote]By piecing together the locations of a particular license plate over time, the government may be able to determine if someone goes to church, synagogue or mosque regularly; whether they go to meetings of a particular political group; whether they participate in protests; or even if they are having an affair.[/quote] This is a little extreme. When you put together all the points of where your plate was scanned you will find common routes of travel, not places. [editline]14th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SilentOpp;37233695]So what article did you read? I think you missed the point where the ACLU is filing a request to figure out what happens to that data when it's collected.[/QUOTE] stored in a police database. Its not like its being sold to Google or anything.

[QUOTE=sHiBaN;37233685]You didn't read either. All this data can be collected and over time, can be developed to portray an image of someone's life. It can be a painted like a GPS system, if plates are scanned enough. Your cellphone already is one[/QUOTE] You're way overblowing this. They only have these things loosely scattered at street lights and stuff which is not going to give them any real information other than the widely general area of the vehicle. I'm not sure what kind of conspiracy you think is going on here other than that.

[QUOTE=areolop;37233699]This is a little extreme. When you put together all the points of where your plate was scanned you will find common routes of travel, not places. [editline]14th August 2012[/editline] stored in a police database. Its not like its being sold to Google or anything.[/QUOTE] That data is unescessary since it will show a specific individuals travel routes. There are much more effective ways to collect similar data without tieing it to a specific person. Oh and I guess agencies like the New York Police Department who have setup safehouses and watch programs across the country, obviously discriminating against people who travel to certain religious insitutions, are perfectly okay in your mind?

[QUOTE=areolop;37233699] stored in a police database. Its not like its being sold to Google or anything.[/QUOTE] It makes me feel better a huge government agency is watching me instead of Google this time around.... :rolleyes: [QUOTE=Meller Yeller;37233735]You're way overblowing this. They only have these things loosely scattered at street lights and stuff which is not going to give them any real information other than the widely general area of the vehicle. I'm not sure what kind of conspiracy you think is going on here other than that.[/QUOTE] Ignorance Sure, it's at the infancy stage, but what stops them from making it a full-blown system? Nothing, because it's people like you that don't give a second thought

[QUOTE=sHiBaN;37233742]It makes me feel better a huge government agency is watching me instead of Google this time around.... :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] "watching me" Yeah them knowing what street you were on two days ago is a real fucking privacy invasion [editline]14th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=sHiBaN;37233742]It makes me feel better a huge government agency is watching me instead of Google this time around.... :rolleyes: Ignorance Sure, it's at the infancy stage, but what stops them from making it a full-blown system? Nothing, because it's people like you that don't give a second thought[/QUOTE] The whole "if this happens then what's next?" argument is stupid and it's just what people say when they don't have any real logic behind it.

[QUOTE=SilentOpp;37233739]That data is unescessary since it will show a specific individuals travel routes. There are much more effective ways to collect similar data without tieing it to a specific person.[/QUOTE] No there isnt? In my experiences, when you run a plate it comes up with the last time you had contact with the police, the RO's (Registered Owner) address, city, state, etc. It also runs the vehicle to check if its stolen, the RO has warrants, or otherwise important information (terrorism, gangs, violent offender). Nothing comes up with where the last time the plate was ran. You would need to do some digging in DVS and police records to find that out - and if you are trying to you better have a damn good reason. You cannot collect information about a common route of travel of a specific vehicle without tieing it to a person. Its just not possible. Your vehicle will always come back to you.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;37233765] The whole "if this happens then what's next?" argument is stupid and it's just what people say when they don't have any real logic behind it.[/QUOTE] Your logic isn't any more sound than mine. You'd really want a governing body knowing exactly what you do and where you go? That isn't an invasion of privacy? What, for the guise of anti-terrorism? To "help" the police force? To "aid" our government in securing our country? The argument that, "oh, I have nothing to hide?" Come on man

[QUOTE=sHiBaN;37233823]Your logic isn't any more sound than mine. You'd really want a governing body knowing exactly what you do and where you go? That isn't an invasion of privacy? What, for the guise of anti-terrorism? To "help" the police force? To "aid" our government in securing our country? The argument that, "oh, I have nothing to hide?" Come on man[/QUOTE] How would the government know where you are and where you're going? You're not speeding now, are you?

[QUOTE=sHiBaN;37233823]Your logic isn't any more sound than mine. You'd really want a governing body knowing exactly what you do and where you go? That isn't an invasion of privacy? [/QUOTE] When the plate gets ran it doesnt say where you are going. ffs

[QUOTE=sHiBaN;37233823]Your logic isn't any more sound than mine. You'd really want a governing body knowing exactly what you do and where you go? That isn't an invasion of privacy? What, for the guise of anti-terrorism? To "help" the police force? To "aid" our government in securing our country? The argument that, "oh, I have nothing to hide?" Come on man[/QUOTE] I highly doubt the police, FBI, Illuminati, or whoever you are afraid of give a shit about what you are doing.

[QUOTE=sHiBaN;37233823]Your logic isn't any more sound than mine. You'd really want a governing body knowing exactly what you do and where you go? That isn't an invasion of privacy? What, for the guise of anti-terrorism? To "help" the police force? To "aid" our government in securing our country? The argument that, "oh, I have nothing to hide?" Come on man[/QUOTE] Well yeah it is more sound than yours because it's not based in mindless paranoia. And again, them knowing what street your car pops up at every once in a while is not "knowing exactly what you do".

[QUOTE=areolop;37233818]No there isnt? In my experiences, when you run a plate it comes up with the last time you had contact with the police, the RO's (Registered Owner) address, city, state, etc. It also runs the vehicle to check if its stolen, the RO has warrants, or otherwise important information (terrorism, gangs, violent offender). Nothing comes up with where the last time the plate was ran. You would need to do some digging in DVS and police records to find that out - and if you are trying to you better have a damn good reason. You cannot collect information about a common route of travel of a specific vehicle without tieing it to a person. Its just not possible. Your vehicle will always come back to you.[/QUOTE] A civil traffic management agency would have no reason to observe the route of a single vehicle, they are more concerned with traffic flow for which we have had better solutions for years. Neither does the police department need a record of the travel habits for every vehicle.

[QUOTE=areolop;37233855]When the plate gets ran it doesnt say where you are going. ffs[/QUOTE] I'm just repeating myself now. Areolop, you would know since you're part of a police force. All I'm pointing out, yeah it doesn't tell you where you go and what you do. But if your plate gets ran and recorded, after a whole bunch of times, doesn't it plot out a diagram of what you do? Don't you agree that after a whole lot of records of you driving past a certain highway or stop light scanner you could see what a person does in his everyday life? Let's say after several years, you have driven on so many scanners than you could look up a particular hour and day of which evidence against you could be used. Going to school, to work, back home again. Then do that on a grand scale, across several states. Even more if the scanners are on ever single stop light [QUOTE=PaChIrA;37233871]I highly doubt the police, FBI, Illuminati, or whoever you are afraid of give a shit about what you are doing.[/QUOTE] they do because terrorists

[QUOTE=sHiBaN;37233903]I'm just repeating myself now. Areolop, you would know since you're part of a police force. All I'm pointing out, yeah it doesn't tell you where you go and what you do. But if your plate gets ran and recorded, after a whole bunch of times, doesn't it plot out a diagram of what you do? Don't you agree that after a whole lot of records of you driving past a certain highway or stop light scanner you could see what a person does in his everyday life? Going to school, to work, back home again. Then do that on a grand scale, across several states.[/QUOTE] If the government was interesting in tracking you, the fact they could do it autonomously would be the least of your worries.

[QUOTE=danharibo;37233922]If the government was interesting in tracking you, the fact they could do it autonomously would be the least of your worries.[/QUOTE] I know, but it doesn't ease my worries one bit. Do we need more ways for tracking?