• Markets fall after Obama victory
    46 replies, posted
[quote] Stocks fell sharply Wednesday morning with the Dow trading below 13,000 for the first time since early August. In recent trading, the Dow was down 2.6% to 12,907 while the S&P 500 Index was off 2.7% to 1391. Coming on the heels of Tuesday's [URL="http://news.yahoo.com/control-room/"]reelection of Barack Obama[/URL], the decline could be viewed as a "sell the news" reaction to what most on Wall Street expected. Others claim the market is showing its displeasure with the incumbent, even though the S&P is up more than 50% since Obama took office in 2009. "I'm not so real convinced this is some kind of reaction to Obama reelection," says my Breakout colleague Jeff Macke. "If you bet on the favorite which is what Obama was you don't get to gloat after. The market expected this." Rather than the election news, stocks are taking their cues from those time-tested catalysts: Europe's debt crisis and the dollar. Ahead of a critical austerity vote in Greece, European bourses and the euro were down sharply Wednesday. Cautious comments by ECB President Mario Draghi about Germany's economy and the European Commission cutting its growth forecast for the eurozone to just 0.1% for 2013 vs. 1% in May cast a further pall on the continent. In response, the euro hit a two-month low at $1.2734 and the U.S. Dollar index hit a two-month high. Generally speaking, so-called risk assets such as stocks and commodities have been moving in opposition to the dollar, so dollar strength is the enemy of the bulls -- at least for now. Markets are also trading on the prospects of a resolution for the so-called fiscal cliff. As I discuss in the accompanying video with Macke, Henry Blodget and Michael Santoli, the market is fearful Obama's reelection means a continued stalemate in Washington, where the Republicans maintain control of Congress. House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) is expected to give a statement this afternoon that will call on both sides to seek "common ground," [URL="http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/266531-boehner-to-call-for-solution-to-fiscal-cliff"]The Hill reports[/URL]. But with President Obama already saying he'll veto any agreement that doesn't raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans — one of his key campaign promises — and Republicans saying they won't agree to any tax hikes (period), it's hard to see a consensus emerging anytime soon. The consensus remains that some deal will be reached prior to Dec. 31 -- when automatic spending cuts and tax hike take effect. "This is not an organic economic or budget problem, it's self created by Congress; therefore it can be differed," Santoli says. "But ultimately, a deal is the only thing that's possible whether after a cliff, before a cliff. or instead of a cliff -- some kind of deal. It's just a matter of what mixture of negative outcomes we're going to have to swallow." With two sides seemingly still very far apart and the calendar getting short, market participants are getting a sample of the bitter pill they'd have to swallow, even if Europe weren't starting to come unraveled yet again.[/quote] [url]http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/obama-wins-election-2012-means-investors-155657964.html;_ylt=Ahb5Qflue5b.ya7pUJlYqX2iuYdG;_ylu=X3oDMTN1djc4b2lhBG1pdANGaW5hbmNlIEZQIE1lZ2F0cm9uIDIEcGtnA2UwMDI1Njg3LTYwZGQtMzZhOC1hZTRmLWU1ZTg5OGYzNDlmNgRwb3MDMQRzZWMDbWVnYXRyb24EdmVyAzNmMjFjMWIwLTI4ZmQtMTFlMi1iN2JmLTgyZDk0Mjg2ZmRhZQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTFpNzk0NjhtBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3[/url] [url]http://finance.yahoo.com/[/url]
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I told you he was a COMMUNIST MUSLIM, that FREEDOM HATING OBONGO
That's because the rich people's assholes just puckered at the realization of oncoming taxation.
You better watch out, You better not cry, Better not pout, I'm telling you why: Taxes are coming and going to rape your big companies assholes, tonight.
[QUOTE=The golden;38357391]As if they would have been any better if Mittens had won.[/QUOTE] Energy stocks would have gone up, a lot of people were betting on Romney to win; so they invested in energy stocks, and now they didn't make a profit.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;38357440]That's because the rich people's assholes just puckered at the realization of oncoming taxation.[/QUOTE] This realization makes my balls so wet. I can't wait to see what the next four years is like.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38357710]This realization makes my balls so wet. I can't wait to see what the next four years is like.[/QUOTE] I hope it actually does come true, and those idiots who think Obama is the anti-christ eat crow.
Isn't it interesting? The republicans tried to crash the market the first time he was elected too. Seems like someone is having another tantrum.
I have to say I am not looking forward to Dec. 31 when the tax cuts bush put in place go away. I will be losing a quite a chunk of my income, and I help run a small business. I honestly don't know if I can continue paying rent come time.
love that republicans will try to play this off as "business is going to die, i told you!!" rather than "hyper rich investors are selling off their stocks before obama can raise capital gains tax"
Urist Mcgreedy is throwing a tantrum! Markets change all the damn time, calm down.
[QUOTE=Frankiscool!;38358175]I have to say I am not looking forward to Dec. 31 when the tax cuts bush put in place go away. I will be losing a quite a chunk of my income, and I help run a small business. I honestly don't know if I can continue paying rent come time.[/QUOTE] While I do sympathize with you, those tax cuts were supposed to expire years ago. They also made the federal government broke within two years during Bush's first term, and we had a multibillion surplus :pwn:
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;38357440]That's because the rich people's assholes just puckered at the realization of oncoming taxation.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Frankiscool!;38358175]I have to say I am not looking forward to Dec. 31 when the tax cuts bush put in place go away. I will be losing a quite a chunk of my income, and I help run a small business. I honestly don't know if I can continue paying rent come time.[/QUOTE] Exactly, this is going to hurt small businesses. My father is not sure what he is going to do come next year, probably will have to fire loyal workers to make ends meet.
[QUOTE=Frankiscool!;38358175]I have to say I am not looking forward to Dec. 31 when the tax cuts bush put in place go away. I will be losing a quite a chunk of my income, and I help run a small business. I honestly don't know if I can continue paying rent come time.[/QUOTE] Hopefully, if what the Democrats said they wanted to do comes true, they might be able to cut taxes for the lower classes by passing another bill after the Bush Cuts expire. I really hope you don't lose your place :(
[QUOTE=Fhenexx;38359478]Hopefully, [B]if what the Democrats said they wanted to do comes true[/B], they might be able to cut taxes for the lower classes. I really hope you don't lose your place :([/QUOTE] RepublicansInCongress.jpg
[QUOTE=The Baconator;38359529]RepublicansInCongress.jpg[/QUOTE] Even the Republicans aren't mad enough to vote against lower and middle class tax cuts.
[QUOTE=Fhenexx;38359546]Even the Republicans aren't mad enough to vote against lower and middle class tax cuts.[/QUOTE] Romney's tax plan was predicted to [I]raise[/I] taxes on the [upper] middle class. [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/24/even-mitt-romney-admits-hell-need-to-raise-taxes-on-the-middle-class/[/url]
Plus if people like Romney didn't avoid tax America would be in a better financial situation.
[QUOTE=Noss;38359697]Plus if people like Romney didn't avoid tax America would be in a better financial situation.[/QUOTE] [citation needed]
My personal bet is that this next 4 years will be much like the last 4 years; Congress will not compromise with anyone, and nothing will happen. That's my bet. EDIT: And if they [i]do[/i] actually manage to agree with something, I'm going to eat my socks in pure disbelief and shock.
[QUOTE=Fhenexx;38359546]Even the Republicans aren't mad enough to vote against lower and middle class tax cuts.[/QUOTE] the last four years disagree
My dad owns an S-Corp so he gets bubbled past 250K even though he makes 100K a year, and he reintroduces all the money he gets from the S-Corp back into the company. I'm worried I won't be able to get my specialist help because of my brain damage now.
[QUOTE=Noss;38359697]Plus if people like Romney didn't avoid tax America would be in a better financial situation.[/QUOTE] Even if you pooled all the taxes that are imposed on the rich, we would still be in debt. We need a combination of reduced spending, and reasonable taxation. When people impose these huge tax rates on the rich, they either take their money elsewhere or hide it.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;38359884]My dad owns an S-Corp so he gets bubbled past 250K even though he makes 100K a year, and he reintroduces all the money he gets from the S-Corp back into the company. I'm worried I won't be able to get my specialist help because of my brain damage now.[/QUOTE] As unfortunate as that is, businesses like your father's are in the minority here. Understandably businesses have a lot to manage, but the tax increase is not that huge on an individual level, only a few percentage points. It's very easy to hear 'tax increase' and assume that you will now be unable to purchase some vital object or service, but there doesn't seem to be much cause for worry. [editline]7th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=QuikKill;38360051]Even if you pooled all the taxes that are imposed on the rich, we would still be in debt.[/quote] A pretty meaningless statement considering no one is suggesting that this is going to outright fix the deficit or debt. It's just meant to alleviate it to some degree. [QUOTE=QuikKill;38360051]We need a combination of reduced spending, and reasonable taxation. When people impose these huge tax rates on the rich, they either take their money elsewhere or hide it.[/QUOTE] I hardly think an individual's income tax rate of less than even 40% is 'huge'. Under the current administration's plan, income from ~$199,000 to ~$390,000 per year will be taxed at 36% instead of 33%, and income above $390,050 will be taxed at 39.6%. No decidedly middle class rates will go up at all. Here's a useful chart: [img]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/09/FY2013_Tables_2013_Tax_Rate_1.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Megafan;38360169] A pretty meaningless statement considering no one is suggesting that this is going to outright fix the deficit or debt. It's just meant to alleviate it to some degree. [/QUOTE] You aren't personally, but a lot of people believe that we can solve the debt crisis by taxing the hell out of the rich. Go read through the election megathread and other similar threads. [QUOTE=Megafan;38360169] I hardly think an individual's income tax rate of less than even 40% is 'huge'. Under the current administration's plan, income from ~$199,000 to ~$390,000 per year will be taxed at 36% instead of 33%, and income above $390,050 will be taxed at 39.6%. No decidedly middle class rates will go up at all. [/QUOTE] But where is that going to stop? Like France did? 40% is a lot of money, and it's hard to justify taking $160,000 of a mans $400,000, let alone 75%. [QUOTE=Megafan;38360169] Here's a useful chart: [img]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/09/FY2013_Tables_2013_Tax_Rate_1.gif[/img] [/QUOTE] As much as I would love to believe that chart, can I see some sources on it? And do you have a similar chart for small businesses?
[QUOTE=QuikKill;38360451]You aren't personally, but a lot of people believe that we can solve the debt crisis by taxing the hell out of the rich. Go read through the election megathread and other similar threads.[/quote] It is not my business what other FPers are advocating, I'm talking about legislators and other people that can actually make the tax policy. [QUOTE=QuikKill;38360451]But where is that going to stop? Like France did? 40% is a lot of money, and it's hard to justify taking $160,000 of a mans $400,000, let alone 75%.[/quote] Slippery slope fallacy at its worst. By this logic we can never raise taxes even 0.1% in any field, but assuming that you didn't insinuate that, do you understand how income tax works? It is taxed in brackets, not cumulatively. [QUOTE=QuikKill;38360451]As much as I would love to believe that chart, can I see some sources on it? And do you have a similar chart for small businesses?[/QUOTE] It's from the Washington Post, hardly some liberal propaganda rag.
No one in power wants to do any large tax raise. It's all fear-mongering That and taxes used to be 50%, 60%, 70%, 80% and even 90% for [i]decades[/i] and those were when America was in its Golden Age. You will survive the expired tax cuts
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