Latvia to forbid Soviet symbolics for the upcoming 9th of May
139 replies, posted
[quote]Latvia’s parliament approved in its first reading earlier this week a law that would forbid the public display of both Soviet and Nazi symbols. The law is expected to be passed before May 9, when Russians commemorate the end of World War II.
[/quote]
[url]http://en.rian.ru/russia/20130412/180608964.html[/url]
winners
good job neighbours
Restriction of freedom and makes no sense at all.
Isn't the end of WW2 a really huge event for eastern European countries and Russia?
[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;40279985]Isn't the end of WW2 a really huge event for eastern European countries and Russia?[/QUOTE]
Exactly
Another funny thing is that in Latvia and Estonia there are seldom, but still quite a few of Waffen SS veteran gatherings. Nobody says ANYTHING about it. To be quite frank, [url=http://rt.com/news/latvia-demonstration-363/]it happened not long ago in March[/url]
This is a real thing due to ultra-nationalistic soviet sympathizers were causing problems.It's suppost to be about celebrating the end of World War 2 and respecting the dead, rather then boasting about how "great" it was in soviet times.
I find this only good.If you're gonna celebrate and respect the dead, then do it.Don't wave an totalitarian flag and drink yourself to black out.American's don't celebrate Veterans day by getting drunk and showing off their photos of killed enemies.
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;40280040]
I find this only good.If you're gonna celebrate and respect the dead, then do it.Don't wave an totalitarian flag and drink yourself to black out.American's don't celebrate Veterans day by getting drunk and showing off their photos of killed enemies.[/QUOTE]
See my post above with Waffen SS commemoration march. Also pictures in that article.
A micro country nobody cares about showing how independent it is. How adorable.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why Reply?" - Megafan))[/highlight]
Here is how the 9th of May is.
The Good part ( which is usually shown in the media )
[thumb]http://img4.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-11.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img1.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-12.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img2.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-5.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img3.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-14.jpg[/thumb]
The more real part ( which is funny in a sense )
[thumb]http://img2.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-37.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img1.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-48.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img1.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-44.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img3.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-42.jpg[/thumb]
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;40280050]See my post above with Waffen SS commemoration march. Also pictures in that article.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]forbid the public display of both Soviet and [b]Nazi symbols[/b][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I'm following you.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;40280032]Exactly
Another funny thing is that in Latvia and Estonia there are seldom, but still quite a few of Waffen SS veteran gatherings. Nobody says ANYTHING about it. To be quite frank, [url=http://rt.com/news/latvia-demonstration-363/]it happened not long ago in March[/url][/QUOTE]
Those veterans served in the SS Division "Wiking", which was formed from scandinavian, eastern-european and other foreign volunteers. They did not commit warcrimes and were one of the fiercest fighting divisions in the eastern front. The general of the division Felix Steiner didn't receive any chargers during the Nurenberg trials. There's nothing odd about there being not much fuzz about their gathering.
It's sad that young folk today think that they were part of those who stayed behind the frontlines committing those attrocities, even sadder that they are being charged for crimes that they didn't do.
Kinda weird to hear this from a country that has so many russians.
Luckly our brothers are smart enough and passed this law. Just we did it much earlier, probably 5 years ago now.
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;40280097]Here is how the 9th of May is.
The Good part ( which is usually shown in the media )
[thumb]http://img4.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-11.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img1.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-12.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img2.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-5.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img3.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-14.jpg[/thumb]
The more real part ( which is funny in a sense )
[thumb]http://img2.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-37.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img1.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-48.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img1.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-44.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://img3.spoki.tvnet.lv/upload2/articles/58/589435/images/Krievi-atzime-9-maiju-42.jpg[/thumb][/QUOTE]
So that car would be banned for having a red star on it?
Just to put insult on injury to Dark-Raven
here is a bit of photos from Legionare commemoration day.
[thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Den_Loty%C5%A1sk%C3%A9_legie_%281%29.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://itvnet.lv/gallery/zinas/latvija/14377_224344.jpg[/thumb]
[thumb]http://itvnet.lv/gallery/zinas/latvija/14377_224330.jpg[/thumb]
So where is that Nazi symbolic ?
Oh wait, there are signs AGAINST Nazism and Stalinism.
[editline]14th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=laserguided;40280174]So that car would be banned for having a red star on it?[/QUOTE]
In context, yes, i guess it would be banned, but that is up to the Police to decide.
[QUOTE=smeismastger;40280130]Those veterans served in the SS Division "Wiking", which was formed from scandinavian, eastern-european and other foreign volunteers. They did not commit warcrimes and were one of the fiercest fighting divisions in the eastern front. The general of the division Felix Steiner didn't receive any chargers during the Nurenberg trials. There's nothing odd about there being not much fuzz about their gathering.
It's sad that young folk today think that they were part of those who stayed behind the frontlines committing those attrocities, even sadder that they are being charged for crimes that they didn't do.[/QUOTE]
Okay.
[editline]14th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;40280189]Just to put insult on injury to Dark-Raven
here is a bit of photos from Legionare commemoration day.
<pictures>
So where is that Nazi symbolic ?
Oh wait, there are signs AGAINST Nazism and Stalinism.
[editline]14th April 2013[/editline]
In context, yes, i guess it would be banned, but that is up to the Police to decide.[/QUOTE]
Alright.
It's actually good to notice that Facepunch provides good information, and pretty valid, too. Although the "not-so-good" part of 9th of May is a running gag and not to taken seriously. That is to happen on all Russian holidays (talking from self-experience)
Actually if you think deeper than soviet propaganda, being a state with socialist economy allowed SU to stand out against germans and launch a counter-offensive. Russian empire was poorly industialised in 1917, switching to socialist economy and forcing mass industrialisation allowed the country to catch up with west and even surpass it in terms of military. Germans would've made it to Moscow fast if Russia was one of these poorly industrialised countries back then.
Not to mention soviet idealogy and propaganda that somewhat encouraged soldiers to fight for their home country.
P.S I am not for communism or Soviet-Union v2
Soviet occupation was the worst, seconded by being a Soviet satellite country, or even just a neighbour such as Finland. People who rated this dumb have no idea what life in the Warsaw Pact was like, either because they lived in the West during those times, or because they weren't born when the Iron Curtain fell.
Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians, Finns, Romanians, Poles, Czechs, and many others know better. Fuck the USSR.
[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;40279985]Isn't the end of WW2 a really huge event for eastern European countries and Russia?[/QUOTE]
Yes, instead of Nazi oppression there came the Soviet oppression! Such a cause for celebration!
[QUOTE=zugu;40280737]Soviet occupation was the worst, seconded by being a Soviet satellite country, or even just a neighbour such as Finland. People who rated this dumb have no idea what life in the Warsaw Pact was like[/QUOTE]
That still doesn't really justify petty bullshit like this ; soviet symbolism may evoke bad memories for the people who suffered through the occupation but just like with Nazi symbols (or hindu/celtic symbols that get people spooked for their similaries) people should really begin to get over it since Soviet / German atrocities that happened during WW2 have been history for ~70 years. Granted, a lot of people who suffered through the ordeal are still alive but the reality is that both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are [I]dead[/I], they're no longer posing a threat at all. There isn't even any excuse for banning soviet emblems since unlike nazi symbolism it's not even used as a way to incite ethnic hatred, it's just giving the finger to old soviet veterans who fought and died in WW2, many of whom call Latvia their homeland.
[QUOTE=Ringo_Satu;40280126]I'm not sure I'm following you.[/QUOTE]
Tbh, only Lithuania had banned ss/soviet symbolism and holocaust denial so far.
For example, it's legal in Estonia to go around in nazi uniforms and etc.
So it is possible there was some waffen ss veteran parade in Latvia.
[editline]14th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Crhem van der B;40280166]Kinda weird to hear this from a country that has so many russians.
Luckly our brothers are smart enough and passed this law. Just we did it much earlier, probably 5 years ago now.[/QUOTE]
Since when restricting freedom is smart?
[editline]14th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Retardation;40280725]the baltic states will never cease to amaze me with their infinite whining about the soviet union and the atrocious xenophobia people have towards russian citizens.
they were so bent on distancing themselves from the soviet union they inadvertently leaned more towards Nazi Germany and often even helped them by giving up red army positions, outing jews, and all sorts of extremely nasty shit that baltic citizens conveniently brush under the rug and ignore to focus their hate on the soviets because "they deported our citizens ;_;".[/QUOTE]
Funny, because soviet treatment of baltics is considered genocide too.
You disgust me.
[QUOTE=Retardation;40281029]by whom?[/QUOTE]
I dunno, whole world?
You can google Soviet genocide in Lithuania for more info.
You do know that about 1/10 of our nation was killed and much more deported?
[QUOTE=Retardation;40280725]the baltic states will never cease to amaze me with their infinite whining about the soviet union and the atrocious xenophobia people have towards russian citizens.
they were so bent on distancing themselves from the soviet union they inadvertently leaned more towards Nazi Germany and often even helped them by giving up red army positions, outing jews, and all sorts of extremely nasty shit that baltic citizens conveniently brush under the rug and ignore to focus their hate on the soviets because "they deported our citizens ;_;".[/QUOTE]
hey, estonia does not whine.
[QUOTE=Retardation;40280725]the baltic states will never cease to amaze me with their infinite whining about the soviet union and the atrocious xenophobia people have towards russian citizens.
they were so bent on distancing themselves from the soviet union they inadvertently leaned more towards Nazi Germany and often even helped them by giving up red army positions, outing jews, and all sorts of extremely nasty shit that baltic citizens conveniently brush under the rug and ignore to focus their hate on the soviets because "they deported our citizens ;_;".[/QUOTE]
Look up the Baltic genocides.
[QUOTE=Retardation;40280725]the baltic states will never cease to amaze me with their infinite whining about the soviet union and the atrocious xenophobia people have towards russian citizens.
they were so bent on distancing themselves from the soviet union they inadvertently leaned more towards Nazi Germany and often even helped them by giving up red army positions, outing jews, and all sorts of extremely nasty shit that baltic citizens conveniently brush under the rug and ignore to focus their hate on the soviets because "they deported our citizens ;_;".[/QUOTE]
Name fits
[QUOTE=Muukkis;40280837]That still doesn't really justify petty bullshit like this ; soviet symbolism may evoke bad memories for the people who suffered through the occupation but just like with Nazi symbols (or hindu/celtic symbols that get people spooked for their similaries) people should really begin to get over it since Soviet / German atrocities that happened during WW2 have been history for ~70 years. Granted, a lot of people who suffered through the ordeal are still alive but the reality is that both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are [I]dead[/I], they're no longer posing a threat at all. There isn't even any excuse for banning soviet emblems since unlike nazi symbolism it's not even used as a way to incite ethnic hatred, it's just giving the finger to old soviet veterans who fought and died in WW2, many of whom call Latvia their homeland.[/QUOTE]
Tell me this, if soviet symbolism shouldn't be banned, why should nazi symbolism should? After all, by far, these two nations were similar - both commited genocides, both had millions of people dead.
And soviet death toll is few times bigger then nazi Germany.
[QUOTE=Retardation;40281184]yeah pal, googling that gives me a bunch of biased Lithuanian-sponsored articles that credit 0 sources and just pull out numbers and statistics out of thin air.
please actually link me a source instead of telling me to "go look for one".
or [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states]alternatively[/url] you can just skim through this article and understand that throwing the word 'genocide' around willy nilly is not only in poor taste but it is also harmful and further detracts from what genocide actually means.
[editline]14th April 2013[/editline]
the only genocide in the baltic states that was committed was committed by Nazi Germany, not the USSR.[/QUOTE]
[quote]gen·o·cide
[jen-uh-sahyd]
noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.[/quote]
Guess what, deportation, russification and massacres did just that.
Also, about 500 000 Lithuanians were sent to gulags, most of them died. How is it not a genocide.
[QUOTE=overpain;40281141]
And soviet death toll is few times bigger then nazi Germany.[/QUOTE]
Nazi Germany : 15,003,000 to 31,595,000 people
Soviet Union : 20 million in the Soviet Union
Right
Another shitstorm's getting started by ethnic Russians there... I always found it quite funny how these people love Russia and Soviet Union so much and yet they're not too fast to reunite with the motherland. I wonder why's that.
There's actually a joke, enjoy my rough translation:
Two Russians sitting in a bar in Riga:
- I miss Russia so much. Wish I was there.
- Do you like it more?
- Of course I do, it's the motherland.
- So why don't you just move there?
- Ha, I'm not that crazy, to live in such shit!
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