Immigration - General - Facepunch Forum

I never understood why countries (namely the US) has such a tough immigration policy? I understand people don't want illegal immigrants, but why even make it illegal? Why even have an immigration policy? I don't understand why people can't just say, "I'd like to be an American", get a Social-Security number and be allowed into the country. Why does the process have to be so selective? If we don't want illegal immigrants why not just make it so every form of immigrant is legal? Educate me facepunch, because I'm tired of my country's nativist approach to foriegn policy.

Because we don't want shit getting out of control. If so many people are coming in and we don't know who they are and we can't track them, something is bound to go wrong. The below user mentioned terrorists being able to get into the country. A lot of bad shit would spill over. Not good. Legal immigration is fine, because they go through a set process so we can identify and track them.

[IMG]http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/196/osamabinladen.jpg[/IMG] [I]"I would like to be an American."[/I] We don't just bar people out because we're dicks. If we didn't have Immigration laws, the greater majority of the Mexican boarder towns would flood into the US. Along with Drug trafficking, Gangs, Mafiosos, Kidnappers, and just about any other thug you can think of. Do you really want this in your country?

[QUOTE=Neolk;20016639]I never understood why countries (namely the US) has such a tough immigration policy? I understand people don't want illegal immigrants, but why even make it illegal? Why even have an immigration policy? I don't understand why people can't just say, "I'd like to be an American", get a Social-Security number and be allowed into the country. Why does the process have to be so selective? If we don't want illegal immigrants why not just make it so every form of immigrant is legal? Educate me facepunch, because I'm tired of my country's nativist approach to foriegn policy.[/QUOTE] It would be abused a lot by fugitives.

Well it's not much of an issue now, surely coming to America seems kind of bleak right around now. Plus if we had what you're suggesting, we'd have been at our current population 30 years ago.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;20016696]Because we don't want shit getting out of control. If so many people are coming in and we don't know who they are and we can't track them, something is bound to go wrong. Legal immigration is fine, because they go through a set process so we can identify and track them.[/QUOTE] I am saying why don't we just do that? If we find an 'illegal immigrant', rather than sending them home all they have to do is register with the US government and can stay. Likewise new immigrants would simply sign a slip of paper, get all squared and be free to go. [QUOTE=OvB;20016701] [I]"I would like to be an American."[/I] We don't just bar people out because we're dicks. If we didn't have Immigration laws, the greater majority of the Mexican boarder towns would flood into the US. Along with Drug trafficking, Gangs, Mafiosos, Kidnappers, and just about any other thug you can think of. Do you really want this in your country?[/QUOTE] There would be no difference in Terrorists coming into this country if we had no immigration policy or if they just sneaked in. If someone wants to attack our country they will do it as a citizen or not, so why not just give everyone the ability to be a citizen? Also, we already have drug trafficking, gangs etc in this country. Giving them citizenship wouldn't change anything. They would still be under the same form of police force we have now. Drug traffickers would face the same difficulty peddling drugs weather we allowed them to be citizens or not. [quote]It would be abused a lot by fugitives.[/quote]Fugitives already attempt to sneak into the country. If a US citizen had committed a crime prior to becoming a citizen, they would still have to answer for their acts. People already escape into the US.

I live in a country with internal immigration problems. Those folks think they would do better here but they end like this [IMG]http://www.municomas.gob.pe/sccs/basicos/distrito/historia/images/barriadas3.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Neolk;20016786]. There would be no difference in Terrorists coming into this country if we had no immigration policy or if they just sneaked in. If someone wants to attack our country they will do it as a citizen or not, so why not just give everyone the ability to be a citizen?[/QUOTE] we had that then the people born here got pissed because the immigrants would work for much lower wages. we need a different immigrant policy, but definitely not where we just accept them from the start.

We need to control who gets into this country for security reasons.

[QUOTE=Neolk;20016786]I am saying why don't we just do that? If we find an 'illegal immigrant', rather than sending them home all they have to do is register with the US government and can stay. [/QUOTE] Because background checks and an entire legal process needs to go down, so we know that they aren't here to fuck our shit up. It takes a lot of time, and for good reason.

[img]http://blog.mentalzen.com/images/9/7/7/3/6/136302-163779/statue_of_liberty_2.jpg[/img] [quote=Quote on Statue Of Liberty]Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door![/quote] Let's forget what the American dream is woo..

[QUOTE=Neolk;20016786] There would be no difference in Terrorists coming into this country if we had no immigration policy or if they just sneaked in. If someone wants to attack our country they will do it as a citizen or not, so why not just give everyone the ability to be a citizen? [/QUOTE] Look at my post again buddy. My dad's worked for US Customs for a good 30 years and you would not believe the shit he's had to deal with.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;20016849]Because background checks and an entire legal process needs to go down, so we know that they aren't here to fuck our shit up. It takes a lot of time, and for good reason.[/QUOTE] If they want to fuck up our shit they'll do it as a citizen or not. Illegal immigrants could potentially sneak into this country and blow up a building just as likely as a US citizen doing so. The idea of the background check is useless. We should take people into this country. If another country says, "Hey, we want Bill Fotser back, he killed someone x-years ago." We'd say, "Okay", and send Fotser their way. [quote]Look at my post again buddy. My dad's worked for US Customs for a good 30 years and you would not believe the shit he's had to deal with.[/quote] There is no functional difference between drug-peddlers who live in the US and are returning with drugs and illegal immigrants who sneak across with drugs. Criminals already sneak into america, weather they are legal or not they will or will not commit crimes and will still, if they do commit the crimes, end up in our jails for at-least a time being.

[QUOTE=Neolk;20016883]If they want to fuck up our shit they'll do it as a citizen or not. Illegal immigrants could potentially sneak into this country and blow up a building just as likely as a US citizen doing so. The idea of the background check is useless. We should take people into this country. If another country says, "Hey, we want Bill Fotser back, he killed someone x-years ago." We'd say, "Okay", and send Fotser their way. There is no functional difference between drug-peddlers who live in the US and are returning with drugs and illegal immigrants who sneak across with drugs. Criminals already sneak into america, weather they are legal or not they will or will not commit crimes and will still, if they do commit the crimes, end up in our jails for at-least a time being.[/QUOTE] I see where you are going with this one. "People are going to do it anyway, so why not just make it legal?"

Essay that's relevant. [quote] Immigration is what founded this country (besides a massive genocide) right? Everybody came here in the 1700s and wanted to start a new world, a world free of the catholic church, a free land. However, the reason why we got here is because of the Indian's open border policy, which allowed our settlers to get in. Open borders have shown to only lead a country to despair, not to wealth and greatness. It was a mistake that the US was formed. If the Indians did not have an open border policy, then the US would have never been formed. As many people believe in open borders, some Californians may be shocked that some people believe differently. A lot of Texans, New Mexicans, and Arizonans believe that open borders are detrimental towards the country. It has shown that in areas with a heavy undocumented citizen amount there is a lot of crime, like Compton. Also, a massive amount of poor would be coming in to the country for the price of slave labor. It also does not support the American economy by supporting non-Americans. Some arguments that are for undocumented immigration are, “it's cheap labor”, “It's supporting Mexicans”, or the good ol' “They're doing jobs Americans won't do”. All of those are true, but they are not realizing that most do not want to be Americans, they want jobs. Most will trash the streets and leave very large hints of poverty (statistics show that HALF of the uninsured population are undocumented citizens), and support the Mexican economy, not the American. They are also very costly because they do not pay taxes to the US government, except for sales. Now to get to the real facts. According to the US CPS (Current Population Survey), the undocumented do not pay taxes, and therefore are fugitives of the law. Another static from the CPS shows that the undocumented are not helpful to the economy, by stealing jobs from American labor workers. Yes, they exist. Another thing is that the undocumented use OUR hospitals and public services. It takes up room from citizens who deserve to be here. Another bad thing (a more minor one) is that they hurt our statistics. The uninsured report from 2006 includes the undocumented. According to the CPS, 45% of the uninsured are the undocumented. Now, that hurts a statistic doesn't it? Another thing is that they are at poverty level, again hurting our poverty line. This also hurts the income disparity index. Many the undocumented or children of the undocumented, who speak very little English, go to our public schools, and crowd up the place. I'd be fine if they paid at all for this, but they don't. It is stealing spots from legal citizens, and people with green cards. With all of these facts about these people, I assume that you at least have checked on your beliefs. Sorry if this offended anyone, but I'm not looking for political correctness. [/quote]

Immigrants are always complaining Always complaining how their country was better and how it had all of this stuff, If your country was so great what the fuck are you doing here get out but then again my parents were refugees from Asia so I dunno

[QUOTE=zombiefreak;20016946]Essay that's relevant.[/QUOTE] Source if possible, please. I want to see if this is just an excerpt. Or did you write this?

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;20016984]Source if possible, please. I want to see if this is just an excerpt. Or did you write this?[/QUOTE] I wrote it.

[QUOTE=zombiefreak;20016992]I wrote it.[/QUOTE] How about the sources you used to write it?

we should have something like an "Immigrant Paradise" its a city of factories and schools. parents work their ass off working in factories with fair wages to prove they belong here their kids or themselves enroll in school They can go ahead and earn a green card or try become a US citizen after they get a diploma.

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;20017006]we should have something like an "Immigrant Paradise" its a city of factories and schools. parents work their ass off working in factories with fair wages to prove they belong here their kids or themselves enroll in school They can go ahead and earn a green card or try become a US citizen after they get a diploma.[/QUOTE] Where would we put it?

[quote]the reason why we got here is because of the Indian's open border policy[/quote] The Native-Americans didn't have any policies, they were a bunch of loose tribes. This article sucks.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;20017005]How about the sources you used to write it?[/QUOTE] Current Population Survey.

[QUOTE=zombiefreak;20016946]Essay that's relevant.[/QUOTE] A lot of the points your essay brings up deal with the fact they are 'undocumented'. The reason people sneak into our country is because of our immigration process. If they were allowed to become citizens it would deal with a lot of the points your author is talking about. Open border policy? Weren't they just a bunch of loose-tribes with no concept of land ownership anyway? Anyway, that wouldn't have meant America would not be established? Indians were using outdated technology and both the conquistador's quest for gold and James Town's quest for cash-crop Tobacco made the journey to America a profitable one. [QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;20016936]I see where you are going with this one. "People are going to do it anyway, so why not just make it legal?"[/QUOTE] Bad people are going to always do bad things; what we 'can' do is make it so good people don't have to pay the price.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;20017025]Where would we put it?[/QUOTE] well fuck you just shot my dream down

[QUOTE=Neolk;20017047]A lot of the points your essay brings up deal with the fact they are 'undocumented'. The reason people sneak into our country is because of our immigration process. If they were allowed to become citizens it would deal with a lot of the points your author is talking about.[/QUOTE] Good point. If they were allowed to be documented they could pay taxes.

[QUOTE=Neolk;20016883]If they want to fuck up our shit they'll do it as a citizen or not. Illegal immigrants could potentially sneak into this country and blow up a building just as likely as a US citizen doing so. The idea of the background check is useless. We should take people into this country. If another country says, "Hey, we want Bill Fotser back, he killed someone x-years ago." We'd say, "Okay", and send Fotser their way. There is no functional difference between drug-peddlers who live in the US and are returning with drugs and illegal immigrants who sneak across with drugs. Criminals already sneak into america, weather they are legal or not they will or will not commit crimes and will still, if they do commit the crimes, end up in our jails for at-least a time being.[/QUOTE] You obviously don't understand how or why the system works. If we had no immigration laws, the amount of illegal goods in the United States would increase exponentially, as would the amount of kidnappings, gang violence, potential terrorism, and violence in general. Not to mention Illiteracy of the English Language. Believe it or not, a lot of immigrants, legal or illegal don't bother learning English before they come to our country. Some do, and I respect that. One of my friends is a Mexican immigrant who can speak English fluently. Yes, we have a lot of immigrants coming in doing illegal deeds already, but this is with the "system" implemented. Boarder stations everywhere catch people running drugs, people, other goods on a daily, if not hourly basis. Their doing their job the best they can. Without them this whole place would be a disaster.

Indians didn't have a fucking open border policy. We went to war, won, and stole the damn land.

[QUOTE=thisispain;20017064]Good point. If they were allowed to be documented they could pay taxes.[/QUOTE] That would be good. Let's just increase the amount we allow to be legal. Getting rid of the whole thing and just letting people walk in would be a horrible idea.

[QUOTE=Neolk;20017047] Bad people are going to always do bad things; what we 'can' do is make it so good people don't have to pay the price.[/QUOTE] And make it easier for the bad people to do bad things? Two options: Some good people come in, some good people don't get in, little bad people get in, some bad people don't get in. OR All of the good people come in, all of the bad people come in. Which sounds safer? Which sounds better for the common good?