[img]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/131016164702-fossil-nervous-system-china-story-top.jpg[/img]
[quote]
(CNN) -- The ancient world was full of strange animals that have gone extinct, such as a group of marine species with claw-like structures emerging from their heads. A new study suggests that these creatures were related to spiders and scorpions.
Researchers discovered the fossilized remains of a species in southwest China that provides new insights into the evolution of animals in the modern era, scientists said. They report their findings in the journal Nature.
Scientists believe that the creature -- 1 inch long, and with two pairs of eyes -- lived 520 million years ago and that it crawled or swam in the ocean. They were able to reconstruct the creature's nervous system to gain insights about its evolutionary relationships to animals familiar to us.
"For the first time, we are able to use fossilised neural anatomy to sort out how fossil animals are related to animals today," study co-author Xiaoya Ma of the Department of Earth Sciences at the Natural History Museum in London wrote in an e-mail.
This creature belongs to the Alalcomenaeus genus, and its place in the animal kingdom lies in "a group of weird extinct animals" called the "megacheiran" or "great appendage" arthropods, Ma said.
The species of the Alalcomenaeus group had elongated, segmented bodies with about 12 pairs of appendages they used for swimming or crawling. They also had a pair of long, scissor-like head claws, most likely for grabbing or sensing.
Scientists say the reconstruction of the new creature's nervous system is the most complete for an arthropod living at that time, in the Cambrian geological period.[/quote]
[url]http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/16/world/asia/spider-claw-discovery/[/url]
Thank god they are fucking dead.
OH HELLLLLL NOOOO
Weren't spiders like the size of cars a few hundred million years ago?
[QUOTE=ZakkShock;42563167]Weren't spiders like the size of cars a few hundred million years ago?[/QUOTE]
yeah, but only because of the higher amounts of oxygen back then. nothing like that could exist now
[QUOTE=Cone;42563191]yeah, but only because of the higher amounts of oxygen back then. nothing like that could exist now[/QUOTE]
That's actually a myth, there are no giant insects/arachnids/bugs today because birds exist, among other things unrelated to oxygen levels.
I'm disappointed there's no artistic rendering of a giant spider thing with claws.
[QUOTE=Jorori;42563250]That's actually a myth, there are no giant insects/arachnids/bugs today because birds exist, among other things unrelated to oxygen levels.[/QUOTE]
well either way we're safe from giant spiders, so that's good
[img]http://www.thisviewoflife.com/images/sized/image_1081_1-405x355.jpg[/img]
That's what it is talking about. Except the coumpound eyes. (megacheiran)
[QUOTE=Jorori;42563250]That's actually a myth, there are no giant insects/arachnids/bugs today because birds exist, among other things unrelated to oxygen levels.[/QUOTE]
Link?
Everything I'm looking at suggest that oxygen levels are related to the size of ancient insects.
[QUOTE=Jorori;42563250]That's actually a myth, there are no giant insects/arachnids/bugs today because birds exist, among other things unrelated to oxygen levels.[/QUOTE]
I dont want to meet the bird that made car sized spiders go extinct
[QUOTE=shian;42563067]
Thank god they are fucking dead.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/piIq0QW.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Jorori;42563250]That's actually a myth, there are no giant insects/arachnids/bugs today because birds exist, among other things unrelated to oxygen levels.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure it was the oxygen levels but that isn't to say that birds weren't a factor.
Here's an artist's rendition.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/yWK2Bkz.jpg[/img]
hello i really dont like spiders man i am just they scare me so much wow i cant stand spiders i have to post in every thread that mentions spiders and voice how much i dont like spiders man they scare me ha ha you could say i am arachnophobic
[QUOTE=Grimhound;42563434][img]http://i.imgur.com/piIq0QW.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
gotta love the hamburger tail
[QUOTE]...marine species with claw-like
...Scientists believe that the creature -- 1 inch long[/QUOTE]
Even if it was still about, we wouldn't have much to worry about.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;42563588]gotta love the hamburger tail[/QUOTE]
Hah. Gotta love coconut crabs, though. Neat critters.
Also, fun fact: When Amelia Earhart crashed, it's highly suspected they picked apart her body, ate her, and then hid the bones in their burrows.
[QUOTE=pfoot;42563586]hello i really dont like spiders man i am just they scare me so much wow i cant stand spiders i have to post in every thread that mentions spiders and voice how much i dont like spiders man they scare me ha ha you could say i am arachnophobic[/QUOTE]
But spiders are the best bug there is. Maybe you could argue honeybees but spiders are awesome.
[quote]They were able to reconstruct the creature's nervous system to gain insights about its evolutionary relationships to animals familiar to us.
"For the first time, we are able to use fossilised neural anatomy to sort out how fossil animals are related to animals today,"[/quote]
Wow.
[QUOTE=Jorori;42563250]That's actually a myth, there are no giant insects/arachnids/bugs today because birds exist, among other things unrelated to oxygen levels.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure that it's 100% down to the fact they need high levels of oxygen to grow to that size, otherwise their shitty method of breathing can't sustain them.
[QUOTE=Hashmere;42563582]Here's an artist's rendition.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/yWK2Bkz.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Dude those are like oven gloves with pincer thumb things
[QUOTE=Grimhound;42563434][img]http://i.imgur.com/piIq0QW.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
the very bottom of that crab looks like a hamburger
Just for fun, here's history's largest arthropod, the sea scorpion.
[IMG]http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/sea-scorpion-1.jpg[/IMG]
(or the largest one we've found evidence of)
[QUOTE=Swebonny;42563360]Link?
Everything I'm looking at suggest that oxygen levels are related to the size of ancient insects.[/QUOTE]
Oxygen can play a role but it's not the definitive factor of why there are not gigantic insect today:
[url]http://news.ucsc.edu/2012/06/giant-insects.html[/url]
[QUOTE]"Maximum insect size does track oxygen surprisingly well as it goes up and down for about 200 million years," Clapham said. "Then right around the end of the Jurassic and beginning of the Cretaceous period, about 150 million years ago, all of a sudden oxygen goes up but insect size goes down. And this coincides really strikingly with the evolution of birds."[/QUOTE]
With oxygen levels being like this over time:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/GR2vFt4.jpg[/t]
During the Carboniferous and before, terrestial vertebrate life was scarce, so giant bugs were a common thing. No predational pressure + insane oxygen levels allowed them to be that big.
But as soon as birds appeared (middle Jurassic) you can see a decrease in size of insects. The Paleogene epoch (after the Cretaceous) had high oxygen levels (26% compared with today's 21%) but no giant bugs like Arthropleura: birds now preyed on them and all big ecological roles had been taken by mammals, birds and lizards already.
If we just doubled oxygen levels we wouldn't have giant insects unless we got rid of all birds that keep giving them predational pressure (and also any animal that could prevent them from having, for example, a "big detritus eater" niche, the one Arthropleura had back in the Carboniferous).
Alternate source: [url]http://news.sciencemag.org/2012/06/where-have-hawk-sized-insects-gone[/url]
[QUOTE=Jorori;42563874]Oxygen can play a role but it's not the definitive factor of why there are not gigantic insect today:
[URL]http://news.ucsc.edu/2012/06/giant-insects.html[/URL]
With oxygen levels being like this over time:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/GR2vFt4.jpg[/t]
During the Carboniferous and before, terrestial vertebrate life was scarce, so giant bugs were a common thing. No predational pressure + insane oxygen levels allowed them to be that big.
But as soon as birds appeared (middle Jurassic) you can see a decrease in size of insects. The Paleogene epoch (after the Cretaceous) had high oxygen levels (26% compared with today's 21%) but no giant bugs like Arthropleura: birds now preyed on them and all big ecological roles had been taken by mammals, birds and lizards already.
If we just doubled oxygen levels we wouldn't have giant insects unless we got rid of all birds that keep giving them predational pressure (and also any animal that could prevent them from having, for example, a "big detritus eater" niche, the one Arthropleura had back in the Carboniferous).[/QUOTE]
Thanks, that's better than calling it just a myth.
This makes me wonder if you were to raise insects and arachnids in an oxygen enriched environment, would they grow larger then normal because of the lack of predation and the oxygen?
[QUOTE=Hashmere;42563582]Here's an artist's rendition.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/yWK2Bkz.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Wow, they had pet-sized jumping spiders??? That's like, my #1 dream, fuck I want to go back in time.
[QUOTE=pansarkurt;42563856]Just for fun, here's history's largest arthropod, the sea scorpion.
[IMG]http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/sea-scorpion-1.jpg[/IMG]
(or the largest one we've found evidence of)[/QUOTE]
AKA the most terrifying thing ever to swim Terra's oceans. Believe me, you'd rather be in a pool with a great white than a predatory species of Eurypterid of similar scale.
[QUOTE=Grimhound;42563434][img]http://i.imgur.com/piIq0QW.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
That's just awesome though because crabs are cool as heck, imagine giant crabs roaming around, it would be great.
But big spiders? fuck off nature.
[QUOTE=Jorori;42563250]That's actually a myth, there are no giant insects/arachnids/bugs today because birds exist, among other things unrelated to oxygen levels.[/QUOTE]
My professor has told me otherwise. Are you a biologist?
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