Afghan Army To Receive Lessons in American Cultural Ignorance - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Washington Post]KABUL — During the Vietnam War, American soldiers shipped out armed with government-issued guides to the distant land and the mysterious people. In Afghanistan, the U.S. military has tried training sessions, embedded cultural advisers, recommended reading lists and even a video game designed to school the troops in local custom. But 11 years into the war, NATO troops and Afghan soldiers are still beset by a dangerous lack of cultural awareness, officials say, contributing to a string of insider attacks that have threatened to undermine the military partnership. So the Afghan army is trying something new: a guide to the strange ways of the American soldier. The goal is to convince Afghan troops that when their Western counterparts do something deeply insulting, it’s likely a product of cultural ignorance and not worthy of revenge. The pamphlet is intended to “strengthen our understanding of our [NATO] counterpart,” according to an English translation of the pamphlet that was provided to The Washington Post. But in doing so, it also reveals seemingly minor — and rarely acknowledged — cultural faux pas that have created palpable tension between the two forces. “Please do not get offended if you see a NATO member blowing his/her nose in front of you,” the guide instructs. “When Coalition members get excited, they may show their excitement by patting one another on the back or the behind,” it explains. “They may even do this to you if they are proud of the job you’ve done. Once again, they don’t mean to offend you.” And another tip: “When someone feels comfortable in your presence, they may even put their feet on their own desk while speaking with you. They are by no means trying to offend you. They simply don’t know or have forgotten the Afghan custom.” Pointing the soles of one’s shoes at someone is considered a grievous insult in Afghanistan. The guide also warns Afghan soldiers that Western troops might wink at them or inquire about their female relatives or expose their private parts while showering — all inappropriate actions by Afghan standards. While some of the tips may be amusing to an American audience, the intention is deadly serious. Fifty-one coalition troops have been killed this year by their Afghan counterparts. While some insider attacks have been attributed to Taliban infiltrators, military officials say the majority stem from personal disputes and misunderstandings. The 18-page pamphlet, officially titled “Cultural Understanding — A Guide to Understanding Coalition Cultures,” was introduced this month by the Afghan Defense Ministry. Written in Dari, the primary language in much of Afghanistan, it will soon be distributed to Afghan military leaders across the country. The booklet will be taught in three one-hour sessions to all soldiers as well as new recruits. As NATO winds down its mission here, the “Cultural Understanding” guide marks the Afghan army’s most significant effort to identify long-standing points of contention and confusion between the two forces. It also seems aimed at restoring support for a foreign troop presence that has seen its popularity plummet during the course of the war. Despite widespread misgivings among the Afghan public, in the guide the coalition is depicted glowingly, often in florid language. The United States is “a little like a lovely carpet. Different colored strands combine to make a beautiful whole.” NATO’s coalition is described as a “work of art.” But every work of art has its flaws. The task of laying out a set of commonly misinterpreted behaviors fell to Brig. Gen. Mohammad Amin Nasib, the bearish, affable head of religious and ideological affairs at the Defense Ministry, and his senior military adviser from the NATO side, Michael W. Gore, a mild-mannered Navy commander and chaplain. “Some would argue that we’re too late, but any time is the right time to promote understanding of each other’s culture,” Gore said. “The Golden Rule goes a long way in any culture in helping to foster tolerance and understanding.” Nasib wasn’t as buoyant. “Unfortunately, it’s too late,” he said. “It should have been done early.”[/QUOTE] Source: [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/afghan-troops-get-a-lesson-in-american-cultural-ignorance/2012/09/28/6882621a-08d4-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_story.html?hpid=z5[/url] This is too little too late in my opinion, but anything that can be done to curb the number of green on blue attacks is useful in my opinion. For example, as a Westerner I would have never thought that giving someone a pat on the back would be a grave insult to somebody's family.

The whole shoes thing is pretty interesting, I wonder what the reasoning is.

[QUOTE=mooman1080;37842161]The whole shoes thing is pretty interesting, I wonder what the reasoning is.[/QUOTE] Probably something to do with dirt, just the same that it is offensive to them if you eat with your left hand (ass wiping hand).

[QUOTE=mooman1080;37842161]The whole shoes thing is pretty interesting, I wonder what the reasoning is.[/QUOTE] Seems similar to what Hussein did to a portrait of Bush Senior. After getting his shit wrecked in '91 he had Bush's face tiled onto a walk way of some building, I don't remember which, but it was basically people walking over the image of person which is considered a big insult.

In Buddhism your feet are the lowliest, dirtiest and "unholy" part of your body and it's extremely rude to point them in the direction of somebody, or a religious icon. Sounds like it's the same deal here.

[quote]The United States is “a little like a lovely carpet. Different colored strands combine to make a beautiful whole.”[/quote] aww

Interesting military they have in Afghan. Soldier who's willing to kill for an insult is a bad-bad soldier.

[QUOTE=gudman;37842357]Interesting military they have in Afghan. Soldier who's willing to kill for an insult is a bad-bad soldier.[/QUOTE] Soldiers are people too, they don't instantly drop all of their customs and values because they become one.

[quote]“When Coalition members get excited, they may show their excitement by patting one another on the back or the behind,” it explains. “They may even do this to you if they are proud of the job you’ve done. Once again, they don’t mean to offend you.”[/quote] Why would it offend them? I met some guys from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran who were in the process of joining the US army, and they were pretty touchy, always had their hand on my shoulder when talking to me. it was weird Not to mention they seemed very comfortable in the showers with each other

[quote]inquire about their female relatives[/quote] surely this is a cultural norm everywhere

Aghani people must think we're so stupid. strutting our genitals, sneezing, and inquiring about female relatives.

I'm guessing the Walk of Fame in Hollywood must confuse the shit out of them, provided they've heard of it. They must wonder why we go such a long way to disgrace our most beloved icons...

[QUOTE=Profanwolf;37842458]Soldiers are people too, they don't instantly drop all of their customs and values because they become one.[/QUOTE] Soldier is a profession, and he's expected to only pull the trigget when he sees the enemy. His counterpart is not an enemy even if he pulled out something offencive. Ignorant, sure. Asshole, sure. But not an enemy. Aren't they instructed who not to shoot?

[QUOTE=gudman;37842523]Soldier is a profession, and he's expected to only pull the trigget when he sees the enemy. His counterpart is not an enemy even if he pulled out something offencive. Ignorant, sure. Asshole, sure. But not an enemy. Aren't they instructed who not to shoot?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure if someone offended a NATO/US Soldier to the same degree, the same thing might have happened.

[QUOTE=Profanwolf;37842541]I'm pretty sure if someone offended a NATO/US Soldier to the same degree, the same thing might have happened.[/QUOTE] But there's no way to offend Western soldier to the same degree. Shit on his face while he sleeps? Though that's not the point, the point is that it shouldn't happen. If a soldier shoots someone, we don't educate anyone around him to not piss him off, we enforce the rule not to fucking shoot people. No matter what they've done as long as they're not posing any danger.

[QUOTE=thisispain;37842499]Aghani people must think we're so stupid. strutting our genitals, sneezing, and inquiring about female relatives.[/QUOTE] urinating on dead bodies it's just how we show respect to our valiant enemies okay

Did the pamplet mention that the tendency of US soldiers urinating on their holy quran and dead bodies is just an act/expression of freedom of speech? Surely they mustve included the most important reason behind these blue on green whatever attacks. The other things are a joke to be honest and condescending at most. Pat at back, they will kill you. Point shoes at them, they kill you. rofl. The reasons listed are downright silly. It only meant to show how crazy/primitive/unsocial they are, especially the part where they call it "ignorance", so condescending. and like the americans are completely innocent at their part, ignoring the fact how many civilians they've killed by their precision bombs or as a sport, incidents of desecration (local and worldwide).. Ask about their family and get killed, cant believe the bullshit that is being fed by the media. Such a weird stereotype is being created in the west.

[QUOTE=C47;37842620]Did the pamplet mention that the tendency of US soldiers urinating on their holy quran and dead bodies is just an act/expression of freedom of speech? Surely they mustve included the most important reason behind these blue on green whatever attacks. The other things are a joke to be honest and condescending at most. Pat at back, they will kill you. Point shoes at them, they kill you. rofl.[/QUOTE] Everything of such thing had a precedent. Legs on table one at least, I've heard of that one.

[QUOTE=gudman;37842753]Everything of such thing had a precedent. Legs on table one at least, I've heard of that one.[/QUOTE] Most of these things are so common in western culture it's easy to see how one could forget that some of these customs could be offensive, even with the cultural sensitivity training U.S. troops are required to go through before they deploy there. Asking how someone's daughter or wife is doing show the person that you care about them, it's not some taboo thing like it is in some conservative Muslim countries.

[QUOTE=ScottyWired;37842182]Probably something to do with dirt, just the same that it is offensive to them if you eat with your left hand (ass wiping hand).[/QUOTE] What fucking non-southpaw has the dexterity to wipe with their left hand?

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37850943]What fucking non-southpaw has the dexterity to wipe with their left hand?[/QUOTE] Not all countries have running water for toilets and so much paper that they can use it to wipe their ass. That stuff is actually a luxury. So what you do is wash your ass with water, using your hand. Since most people are right handed, it means you eat with your right hand. Therefore you must use your left to wipe your ass, dexterity or not. And let's face it, how much dexterity do you need to rub flecks of poop off with water?

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;37851071]Not all countries have running water for toilets and so much paper that they can use it to wipe their ass. That stuff is actually a luxury. So what you do is wash your ass with water, using your hand. Since most people are right handed, it means you eat with your right hand. Therefore you must use your left to wipe your ass, dexterity or not. And let's face it, how much dexterity do you need to rub flecks of poop off with water?[/QUOTE] How can you wash your hands if you don't have running water?

[QUOTE=YourFriendJoe;37851097]How can you wash your hands if you don't have running water?[/QUOTE] Rivers and streams.

I've never thought or known at any point in my life that someone might find this kind of stuff offensive, so I can only imagine how many other cultures we can offend without even thinking [editline]asd[/editline] (Except for the feet on a table, that's just barbaric)

[QUOTE=Greenen72;37851231]The feet on a table, that's just barbaric[/QUOTE] Clearly this means that the Americans are a bunch of barbarians.

I remember talking to an officer who went over to teach some Afghans about EOD training, the buildings they used had "Use toilet paper, not rocks/sands" signs posted all over the bathrooms because the afghans weren't used to western plumbing and would clog the drains with rocks, sand and etc.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;37851071]Not all countries have running water for toilets and so much paper that they can use it to wipe their ass. That stuff is actually a luxury. So what you do is wash your ass with water, using your hand. Since most people are right handed, it means you eat with your right hand. Therefore you must use your left to wipe your ass, dexterity or not. And let's face it, how much dexterity do you need to rub flecks of poop off with water?[/QUOTE] Gonna clear some stuff up. Even in the most destitute countries that have no running water, they still stockpile water in a big barrel in the bathroom and use a little bucket to scoop out the water they need. In poor provinces in India, you'll always see a large blue barrel full of water, and a smaller bucket beside it used for scooping out water you need. That way, the main supply is kept clean, and you can scoop whatever water you need to use to wash your hands. As for the "how much dexterity do you need to rub flecks of poop off with water", it's not so much you rubbing poop off as it is you pouring water and letting that push most of it off. Also, whilst we're on the subject of washing your ass with water instead of wiping, I figured I'd say a few things about it, seeing as the general consensus is "Fucking disgusting, washing your ass with water and touching your own shit with your hand is filthy". As a water-washer myself, I can't understand how you guys just wipe with toilet paper. If a fleck of dog shit somehow managed to end up on your finger, would you go and wipe it off with tissue and carry about your day? Most likely not, what you'd do is run to the nearest sink and wash your hand. This would also be the case if it was your own poop (I hope!). Wiping your ass with tissue never cleans it 100%. The few times I have wiped, if I keep on wiping, there'll always be some skids left. You can deceive yourselves by wiping lightly, but there'll still be shit on your asshole. The few times I've done that, I end up getting an unforgivingly itchy asshole, and I can't help but feel dirty (because I'm aware that there is still shit in and around my asshole). My underwear will also tend to get dirty (from skid marks) if I wear them for a day, which [I]never [/I]happens to me normally, but mostly happens when I wipe. When I wash with water, I use the water to push off most of the poop, then I use my left hand (always left, as it's regarded as the dirtier hand, hence why we only shake with right hands and never eat with our left hand) to finish off the cleaning process (rubbing water around the area, making sure it's clean). I always end up completely clean, and wiping with tissue paper after, even if I push hard, leaves no marks or skids. Then of course you wash your hands thoroughly. It's perfectly fine, your hands aren't dirty, they don't smell, so I really don't see the problem. So yeah, to anyone who looks down at washing with water, seriously give it a try. Your assholes must have developed callous or something over the years, because I don't know how you guys don't itch 24/7 from the remnant poop. I've been washing with water my whole life, and I'd never do it any other way. I just feel so much cleaner when I use water, and I don't get that merciless itching that you get if you don't clean well. The More You Know!

Or you could use a fuckin wet wipe or somethin

Wait, showering without clothes is considered bad there? How the fuck do you clean your body if it's covered by your clothes?

[QUOTE=loopoo;37851548]Your assholes must have developed callous or something over the years, because I don't know how you guys don't itch 24/7 from the remnant poop.[/QUOTE] If you wipe properly there shouldn't be any remnant poop.