[url]http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/donald-trump-geneva-conventions-221394[/url]
[quote]Donald Trump believes American troops are afraid to fight for fear of violating the Geneva Conventions, he said Wednesday.
“The problem is we have the Geneva Conventions, all sorts of rules and regulations, so the soldiers are afraid to fight,” Trump said at an afternoon town hall during remarks on torture.
“We can’t waterboard, but they can chop off heads,” Trump said, referring to the United States and the Islamic State, respectively. “I think we’ve got to make some changes, some adjustments.”[/quote]
[QUOTE]“We can’t waterboard, but they can chop off heads,”[/QUOTE]
Ah, so the soldiers are afraid to fight because they can't brutalise captured combatants.
I bet you he likes using the term "Disarmed Enemy Combatent".
No Mr. Trump, they're done for a reason.
Yeah bc the US isn't a fucking backwards shit hole where they publicly execute civilians on the street unlike ISIS-Controlled Syria which follow absolutely no rules bc they're not recognised and wouldn't bother with them anyway
So essentially let's make America a backwards shit hole and do all this stuff, Trump is literally delusional
He's insane. No person should be ordered to torture another.
There is nothing to be gained from it, and everything to lose.
I will not be surprised if Congress decide to ratify the Rome Statute which created the International Criminal Court in case this guy gets elected.
Edit: I'm pretty sure the guy never read the Geneva Convention in the first place.
Boy, it sure would be wacky if some dumbass mosey'd his way on in here and tried to say this is a good thing!
Trump's idea of making America great again is going back to the cold war era
Where's our stalwart Trump defenders now?
[quote]“We can’t waterboard, but they can chop off heads,” Trump said, referring to the United States and the Islamic State, respectively. “I think we’ve got to make some changes, some adjustments.”[/quote]
Trump 2016: Make America More Like ISIS
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50037415]Where's our stalwart Trump defenders now?[/QUOTE]
they're currently digging through their ass for an explanation on why the geneva convention is actually outdated bullshit and torture is actually really useful
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50037415]Where's our stalwart Trump defenders now?[/QUOTE]
As far as I know they're all banned. I almost wish they weren't so I could watch them try and defend this shit.
My ever-loving and caring grandfather supports this guy to run? Then again if given the choice he'd rather vote for Mickey Mouse but still.
Trump is an absolute madman, and sadly enough people will eat this up and support it because Trump said it. The more I see and hear of him the more I lose respect for the dude.
Make America Great Again
By adopting the techniques of backwards ideological madmen.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;50037394]Trump's idea of making America great again is going back to the cold war era[/QUOTE]
I was thinking Middle Ages.
I'm honestly not sure which part of this is bothering me more
The part where he seems to legitimately think the Geneva convention is a bad thing, or the part where he apparently has no goddamn clue what the Geneva convention even is
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50037527]
I was thinking Middle Ages.[/QUOTE]
Normally I'd be happy to hear a president was an Iron Maiden fan.
At this point I'm just assuming that he just rambles buzzwords when he hasn't put enough thought into the topic yet
And this, my friends, is an almost textbook example of a man mistaking [I]power[/I] for [I]strength[/I].
Power, in this sense, is the application of force by the strong on the weak. ISIS exerts quite a lot of power over their captives... not because they have a great deal of force, but because they have found some extremely weak people to be their victims.
America fighting ISIS, right now, is not as great a demonstration of power, despite our massive disparity in forces. They are, after all, quite weak - we lose far more people to the inefficiencies of our own healthcare system than to terrorist attacks. It is a lesser display of power because we are using only a fraction of our force - most of our military might is elsewhere, on guard against Russia or China or other potential enemies.
Many people see this as foolish, and say we should use more of our force against ISIS. The more wise of these want us to simply use more of our force - move a few divisions from Europe to Syria, and sweep ISIS out. They may or may not be wrong - the situation is complicated, but this is not a completely wrong idea, not something a complete idiot would propose.
Donald Trump [I]is[/I] that complete idiot, and he decides that because ISIS is [I]showing more power[/I] over their victims, we must show more power over [I]our[/I] victims. And yes, prisoners of war can be considered victims, particularly when, like a surprising number of ISIS fighters, they never really even liked ISIS's philosophy, and fought simply because it was a steady paycheck in a war-torn region with almost no economy left.
That is power, and force, but when I spoke of strength, I spoke of strength of [I]character[/I]. America could easily torture prisoners. We have unfortunately done so in the past, so it is clearly not a physical impossibility. If we do not torture, if we do not execute prisoners of war, if we do not deliberately kill civilians to punish combatants, it is because we [I]choose[/I] not to. We [I]chose[/I] to bind our hands with these laws - not because we were weak, but because we are [I]strong[/I]. Because it is, in almost every case, the [I]right thing to do[/I].
When we take an ISIS fighter prisoner, they are out of the fight. Ship them off to Gitmo, hold them until the war is over, as we would for prisoners of war for any other country. It makes no difference to the outcome of the war, either way... but one is an evil action that serves only to perpetuate hate, while the other is the just actions of a strong and noble country - or, at least, one that is [I]trying[/I] to be strong and noble.
I don't know about you, but I'd like us to be that country.
This is a man who has never had an ounce of compassion for his fellow man
[QUOTE=Sableye;50037928]This is a man who has never had an ounce of compassion for his fellow man[/QUOTE]
Fairly certain he's a sociopath on some level.
The conventions only apply to nations who have signed the conventions and nations that adhere to them and, by extension, are defacto members.
If the other side, like ISIS, doesn't adhere to the conventions, YOU AREN'T REQUIRED TO ADHERE TO THEM EITHER.
Not that they really stop us from doing anything. They are generally pretty permissive.
[QUOTE=GunFox;50037992]The conventions only apply to nations who have signed the conventions and nations that adhere to them and, by extension, are defacto members.
If the other side, like ISIS, doesn't adhere to the conventions, YOU AREN'T REQUIRED TO ADHERE TO THEM EITHER.
Not that they really stop us from doing anything. They are generally pretty permissive.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what section 2 of the Geneva Convention tries to prevent. The treaty is legally binding regardless if the other party is a Contracting Power or not.
[QUOTE]ARTICLE 2
[B]Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations.[/B] [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=GunFox;50037992]The conventions only apply to nations who have signed the conventions and nations that adhere to them and, by extension, are defacto members.
If the other side, like ISIS, doesn't adhere to the conventions, YOU AREN'T REQUIRED TO ADHERE TO THEM EITHER.
Not that they really stop us from doing anything. They are generally pretty permissive.[/QUOTE]
This is wrong. Essentially every human rights treaty in the world is binding to the signing party under almost any condition. Yes, you can ignore them (cough cough USA torture gitmo UN UDHR) without much happening if you're powerful enough, but it will diminish your standing in the international community.
Nobody respects ISIS for their stances on human rights. They are reviled the world over. If the US stooped to their level and started televising beheadings and waterboarding illegally-held Syrian nationals as prisoners, there is zero doubt that the rest of the international community would recoil and start putting sanctions on the US. Enforcing human rights hinges on international trade - fail to uphold human rights and other countries will cease to trade with you and enforce economic sanctions against you. We do it to Russia. If we started behaving in the same manner as ISIS and slaughtering innocents in televised broadcasts, the rest of the Western world would denounce us and throw so many sanctions at us that Trump wouldn't even need to pass his planned tariffs. Because nobody would want to trade with us.
[QUOTE=Chaitin;50038071]This is exactly what section 2 of the Geneva Convention tries to prevent. The treaty is legally binding regardless if the other party is a Contracting Power or not.[/QUOTE]
You cut that quote short
[quote]Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations. They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof.[/quote]
You are bound by the convention, even if the opposing party isn't a member, until they fail to adhere to the provisions.
[editline]30th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50038147]This is wrong. Essentially every human rights treaty in the world is binding to the signing party under almost any condition. Yes, you can ignore them (cough cough USA torture gitmo UN UDHR) without much happening if you're powerful enough, but it will diminish your standing in the international community.
Nobody respects ISIS for their stances on human rights. They are reviled the world over. If the US stooped to their level and started televising beheadings and waterboarding illegally-held Syrian nationals as prisoners, there is zero doubt that the rest of the international community would recoil and start putting sanctions on the US. Enforcing human rights hinges on international trade - fail to uphold human rights and other countries will cease to trade with you and enforce economic sanctions against you. We do it to Russia. If we started behaving in the same manner as ISIS and slaughtering innocents in televised broadcasts, the rest of the Western world would denounce us and throw so many sanctions at us that Trump wouldn't even need to pass his planned tariffs. Because nobody would want to trade with us.[/QUOTE]
It isn't a matter of ignoring it, it was a loophole that was placed into the treaty to account for obvious objections to the treaty.
The very one that you just heard Trump use, in fact. By making it so the treaty doesn't apply to an enemy who doesn't follow it, you defeat almost every argument you can use against the treaty itself. Meanwhile, most nations follow the treaty regardless. As a result, you really can't criticize the treaty as tying anyone's hands, because the treaty itself really doesn't. It was absolute brilliance on the part of whoever wrote it.
I swear to fucking God if Wystan comes in here and says that "Torture should be a last resort but shouldn't be ruled out" I'm gonna literally flip every shit I can
Don't worry, he's busy advocating for punishment against women that have abortions. It'll be a while.
That quote honestly reads like satire.
[QUOTE=kyle877;50038286]Don't worry, he's busy advocating for punishment against women that have abortions. It'll be a while.[/QUOTE]
The punishment will be waterboarding, it's all connected
[QUOTE=Mining Bill;50037374]Boy, it sure would be wacky if some dumbass mosey'd his way on in here and tried to say this is a good thing![/QUOTE]
the geneva convention gets in the way of killing people which is the point of war
[b][!!POE'S LAW DISCLAIMER!!]the contents of this post are not to be taken seriously[!!POE'S LAW DISCLAIMER!!][/b]
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